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Why Dawn of War storyline is not consider a fluff?
Every time I tell something judging on DoW storyline the people just say " not considered a fluff". Why?

By fluff do you mean cannon? I always thought it was considered cannon.

DoW has cannon (s)

Surely multiple endings of a game aren't set in stone like written black on white in a printed publication is.
Still GW is written all over it and keeps its fluff in check most of the time.

DoW is one possible future in a sea of multiple possible futures.

I think DoW is a hint on GWs course in fluff. But anyone who dislikes parts of it will dismiss it as "not canon".

I don't see why the DoW series shouldn't be considerd canon. It makes perfect sense for it to be so; the game is approved by Games Workshop and it doesn't affect the WH40k fluff in a dramatic way.

The only possible exception this is

1hadhq wrote:I think DoW is a hint on GWs course in fluff. But anyone who dislikes parts of it will dismiss it as "not canon".

I agree with that. I think that most people branding a piece of DOW fluff as "not cannon" simply feel they are loosing the argument or don't like the idea that their beloved hobby could be influenced by a video games created for nerds.
No, I'm exaggerating a bit. But that's the idea.

It is true that because there are multiple endings to each game, the DOW fluff could be quite confusing. But after each game's release, there is always a announcement or an article published by Relic saying which ending is the actual cannon.

For instance, in the very first game, the official ending is Gabriel Angelos releasing the daemon within the maledictum, thus setting into motion the events that will lead to Retribution (the last game of the DOW series). In most cases, the official ending is simply the ending where the Blood Ravens win anyway.
But not in all cases. In Soulstorm for instance, the cannon ending presents the Blood Ravens suffering from a crushing defeat with their captain slain, or something like that IIRC.

So there is a DOW official fluff.

It's all Canon. Now saying that it may all be lies, created as propaganda. Think of it like history, with the IoM telling us what the think we should hear.

Yeah, there is a canon outcome for everything. The Force Commander even has an official name, rank, and background from the DOW II book (it's Aramus, he came from the nobility of Meridian, and he's a Sergeant.) Retribution sidesteps the fate of the original commander from DOW II/Chaos Rising, as well as the identity of the traitor, though you do meet a few characters who lived through it.

The first Dawn of war game is real
In Winter assault
How ever I have no idea about Dark Crusade and Soulstrom
but Soul storm was soooo gak that for me it is not part of the warhammer 40k story all

As said before not all of the fluff in DOW is canon, because not all of it can be.

One point is that not all 9 alternative scenario endings can be true at the same time. It's a logic thing.

And the last time you wanted to tell something about 40k fluff (in your "I hate this race because they are racists" thread), you quoted your sources wrong, be it PC game, FW book or Codex.

bob the heretic wrote:

Spoiler:

Avitus was he is the real traitor in chaos riseing. In Retribution the chaos first mission is the
real part of the story, so yes Davain Thule does get raped by Eliphas. But the ending is Space marine.
Most of things about the eldars is not in the real stroy but the eldar ending is real so yes the ranger does bring his sisters, Taldeer soul stone back.
The Imperial Guards have partly some missions that are part of the real story.
Captain Buttfang (or how ever you call him) has a bit of fun but steals the Imperial ship and runs way.
tyranid ending is all wrong and does not take part in the main story at all

The first Dawn of war game is real
In Winter assault

Spoiler:

Eldar win, Orks win, and partly the Imperium

How ever I have no idea about Dark Crusade and Soulstrom
but Soul storm was soooo gak that for me it is not part of the warhammer 40k story all

First DoW - ending as it is
Winter assault - Imperial Guard, Talder was found wounded by Orks. They get her aboard an ship and she escapes and returned in Dark Crusade ( DoW Omnibus ). Gorgutz have killed Chaos Lord and Sturnn was successful in salvaging the Titan, he also meet GA in the end...
Dark Crusade - Space Marines have won the campaign.
Soulstorm - Relic stated after launch of DoW II that IG has won the campaign.
DoW II - ending as it is.
Chaos Rising - Avitus is traitor, good ending is canon.
Retribution - it will be probably mix of Imperial Guard/ Eldar/ Space Marine ending.


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Kroothawk wrote:
And the last time you wanted to tell something about 40k fluff (in your "I hate this race because they are racists" thread), you quoted your sources wrong, be it PC game, FW book or Codex.

Don't lie, I didn't say that - and Tau are racist. And I have read Soul Drinkers, 15 Hours, For the Emperor, Tau, Guard and Space Marine codex along with 5'th rulebook. And every 40k comic published by WD.

And all have said that DoW storyline is official canon. So you where wrong.

Brother Coa wrote:Every time I tell something judging on DoW storyline the people just say " not considered a fluff". Why?(...)
And all have said that DoW storyline is official canon.

Don't know, if you do it deliberately or because of carelessness.
But if you go on making obvious false claims like that, you will experience more of your threads locked for trolling.

Hey just check wikipedia for the game info if you're interested in the actual ending

The only time a real argument can be made for it not being canon is Soulstorm-- but even then, that actually was confirmed as canon by DoW2.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, more stuff on Taldeer:

GW has unofficially accepted the DoW storyline as cannon.


members of GW's staff have painted Blood Raven armies(and displayed them on the Website)

also by allowing DoW books(regardless of how awful they were)


i think the story was decent. the story did fix the ending of the earlier DoW games to a certain outcome, but whatever.



the supposed origin of the Blood Raven geneseed with the Thousand Sons legion is a nice little twist.

The Blood Ravens had an Index Astartes article in White Dwarf which mentioned their exploits in the first few DoW campaigns, as well as being one of the few to have an example doctrine list in C: SM 3.5 and being listed in Space Marine codices since then. They actually get just as much coverage in the 5th edition codex as the Iron Hands (that coverage being an example of their colour scheme and a parahgraph of fluff).

Also, every single bit of fluff, right down to wargear descriptions and abilities, is put through some serious scrutiny by GW. It's all official canon, just a different way of playing the IP and obtaining said fluff.

You are aware that DoW: Dark Crusade has 9 alternative storylines, one for each fraction winning the scenario and gaining control over the planet. Claiming that all 9 storylines are confirmed as official canon is just ridiculous.

Of course, but there is a central story through the games. For instance, Dawn of War 2 Chaos Rising makes reference to events of Dark Crusade. Anything that is consistent across the games, story wise, would be the actual story, since it needs to take concessions for actually being a game that people can play.

Kroothawk wrote:You are aware that DoW: Dark Crusade has 9 alternative storylines, one for each fraction winning the scenario and gaining control over the planet.

Wait, mathematics won Dark Crusade?

I thought the Imperium won.

yeah, there is a "Cannon" way for each DoW game to end.


I belive that both Soulstorm was won by Chaos and Dark Crusade was won by the T'au.


both campains resulted in the Blood Ravens taking huge casualities.

the 1st DoW game happened like it happened. Angelos let the deamon free and all.

Winter Assault resulted in the IG recovering the Titan, but the Ork Warboss still raveges the sector.


and thats about it IIRC.

Kroothawk wrote:You are aware that DoW: Dark Crusade has 9 alternative storylines, one for each fraction winning the scenario and gaining control over the planet. Claiming that all 9 storylines are confirmed as official canon is just ridiculous.

Didnt you read some of the other comments? The real ending for it is the Space Marine, the rest are just for fans


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Grey Templar wrote:yeah, there is a "Cannon" way for each DoW game to end.


I belive that both Soulstorm was won by Chaos and Dark Crusade was won by the T'au.


both campains resulted in the Blood Ravens taking huge casualities.

the 1st DoW game happened like it happened. Angelos let the deamon free and all.

Winter Assault resulted in the IG recovering the Titan, but the Ork Warboss still raveges the sector.


and thats about it IIRC.

Read my other comment and it will tell you the real endings.
Dark Crusade was wone by Space marine
the only time they had huge casultiyes were on Soulstorm which is the most shityist game in the univeres.
Imperial Guards wone it though.

o well,

I get them mixed up all the time(soooo many of them)

Just curious but why do a lot of people say that the DoW omnibus, the one written by C.S. Goto is not canon? I've heard that more times than I've heard the game to be canon. Also do the books somehow fit in with the games? There are too many contradictions between the novel and the game for any kind of coherency.

Kroothawk wrote:
But if you go on making obvious false claims like that, you will experience more of your threads locked for trolling.

I won't call it a false... but than again this thread is about Dow, not Tau. So I will stay OT to ease KillKrazy's job.


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Kroothawk wrote:You are aware that DoW: Dark Crusade has 9 alternative storylines, one for each fraction winning the scenario and gaining control over the planet. Claiming that all 9 storylines are confirmed as official canon is just ridiculous.

We know that, however - there is one official canon: Space Marine campaign. The one that GW and Relic stated canon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grey Templar wrote:
I belive that both Soulstorm was won by Chaos and Dark Crusade was won by the T'au.

I to believe that Space Marines won at Kaurava, until DoW II came out.

Wait, Retribtuion was the last game? Interesting...

Also, I thought Eldar won the Soulstorm campaign, because IG STILL win in the Eldar ending.

Happygrunt wrote:Wait, Retribtuion was the last game? Interesting...

Also, I thought Eldar won the Soulstorm campaign, because IG STILL win in the Eldar ending.

They win because what's left of the IG went to hiding and after Eldar disappear only walked into their abandoned cities.
Relic stated that IG drew everyone from Kaurava, so by that they probably meant that Guard was defeating everyone planet by planet.

Brother Coa wrote:I won't call it a false... but than again this thread is about Dow, not Tau. So I will stay OT to ease KillKrazy's job.

If you say in your first post that everyone says that DoW is not canon, then in your second post say that everyone agrees DoW is canon, then one is obviously false (and you even read your own posts incorrectly). It's a logic thing.

Brother Coa wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:You are aware that DoW: Dark Crusade has 9 alternative storylines, one for each fraction winning the scenario and gaining control over the planet. Claiming that all 9 storylines are confirmed as official canon is just ridiculous.

We know that, however - there is one official canon: Space Marine campaign. The one that GW and Relic stated canon.

In the other thread you claimed the Tau ending to be canon.
But if you ask why DoW is not considered canon, it is because there are too many parallel storylines that can't be all true.

Concerning C.S.Goto: While there is some free room what can happen in the 40k universe, even the editors learned that Goto was far beyond that limits and obviously had no clue about 40k. They introduced stricter background control after that.

Kroothawk wrote:
If you say in your first post that everyone says that DoW is not canon, then in your second post say that everyone agrees DoW is canon, then one is obviously false (and you even read your own posts incorrectly). It's a logic thing.

That was before this thread. Everyone just said "you cannot use DoW as it is not GW fluff". I post this thread and almost everyone here said "DoW is offical GW fluff"
It's a logic thing.

Brother Coa wrote:
In the other thread you claimed the Tau ending to be canon.

What? I think I know what I said, I may hint to some thing in Tau ending. But I never said that Tau endings are cannon ( well except Fire Warrior ) because GW said it isn't.

But if you ask why DoW is not considered canon, it is because there are too many parallel storylines that can't be all true.

That's like saying Mass Effect is not considered canon because every choise we made is going toward different end.
It matter's not how many endings DoW games have. If GW said: "Space Marine ending is real" that means that ending is canon ending - thus considered fluff to be used in 40k background. Other endings are for fans, as mentioned before.

I will repeat one last ime for everyone
Winter Crusade The Imperium wins, Eldars kill necrons and escape, Orks kill the World Eaters and escape.
Dark Crusade was a win for SM
Soulstom was a in or IG
DWII win for SM
DWII Chaos riseing SM and traitor is Avitus
DWII Retribution Chaos marines kill Heroes of Aurelia including Davian, The Eldar fined Taldeers soul stone, Captain ButtFang escapes, Tyranid die, Space marines and Iperial Guards WIN!