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So does the Mawloc test for mishap if within 12" of a GKSS squad. Is the Lictor's pheromone trail affected. You know GW has not been kind with Nid rulings. What say you?

Yes.

No.

Some people could possibly argue that, if the Mawloc scatters onto a unit that is within the Warp Quake zone, he wouldn't roll on the mishap table. However, I look at it as two separate causes for mishap.

For the Lictor, it isn't wargear, so the Lictor works normally. Of course, you might not have much of an area you can drop them in.

Now we played and we rulked that the Mawloc does not suffer from a mishap IF he hits something. It is pretty clear in the Mawlocs rule that if he ignores the mishap if he hits any enemy unit. If he misses he suffers the mishap.

Lictors do not Deepstrike, it does not affect their deployment.

Phermone Trail affects on the roll will not be modified, the other effects will be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

felixcat wrote:Now we played and we rulked that the Mawloc does not suffer from a mishap IF he hits something. It is pretty clear in the Mawlocs rule that if he ignores the mishap if he hits any enemy unit. If he misses he suffers the mishap.

This seems to be backed by the rules and is useful to remember--many miss it.

kirsanth wrote:Lictors do not Deepstrike, it does not affect their deployment.

Phermone Trail affects on the roll will not be modified, the other effects will be.

Not true. Warp Quake only affects wargear. Pheromone Trail is a special rule.

Warpquake affects deepstrike with its other effects. . .

Editing to add:
I must be missing something--give me a sec.

Lictors do not Deepstrike, it does not affect their deployment.

Secret deployment is a type of deep strike no? If it is not affected I would be very happy but I believe it is.

Unless the rule says they deep strike, they don't. Lictors are placed on the board with no reference to deep striking whatsoever. In fluff, they were on the board all the time, and just decided to appear.

Warp quake does 2 things:

shuts down wargear that reduces scatter
and
causes anything that deepstrikes within range to automatically mishap.


Lictors
Chamelon skin is not affected. It is not a ds, so warp quake can't stop it. As for the pheromone trail...it should still work since it's a special ability and not wargear. Weather or not the faq decides to change this...

Mawlocs
If you ds within range, you suffer a mishap. It doesn't matter if you hit a model with your ability or not, even if it was just because of scatter. You made a ds move in range of warp quake, you suffer for it.

omerakk wrote:Mawlocs
If you ds within range, you suffer a mishap.

So you are saying Terror from the Deep is less specific than Deepstrike?

Are you trying to say that a Mawloc is immune to any mishaps just because it hits a model? Because that is not the case. The terror from the deep rule is in direct reference to mishaps caused from hitting units, not mishaps caused by other sources.

Spore pods, Drop pods, Monoliths... these also don't suffer mishaps when they hit a model, but if they do so within 12 inches of a warp quake, then they do suffer a mishap.

omerakk wrote:Are you trying to say that a Mawloc is immune to any mishaps just because it hits a model?

Yes, as that is what the rule states.
If I aim for your unit and roll "HIT" you have a rule that says I roll mishap -- which honestly would happen anyway. I have a rule that states "Do not roll on the mishap table, instead do the following". If you want, you can assume it mishaped. But I do not need to roll on the table.

omerakk wrote:Spore pods, Drop pods, Monoliths... these also don't suffer mishaps when they hit a model

Yes they can. Aim for one and roll "HIT". You do not reduce scatter by adding scatter.

Editing out a mistaken line.

kirsanth wrote:Yes, as that is what the rule states.
If I aim for your unit and roll "HIT" you have a rule that says I roll mishap -- which honestly would happen anyway. I have a rule that states "Do not roll on the mishap table, instead do the following". If you want, you can assume it mishaped. But I do not need to roll on the table.

Again, that only applies to mishaps from hitting units, it doesn't protect you from mishaps from other sources just because you managed to hit a model.
If you ds off the board, but a small corner of your base touches an enemy model, you still ds'ed off the board. Terror from the deep doesn't protect you from that. The same is the case for warp quake.

omerakk wrote:Spore pods, Drop pods, Monoliths... these also don't suffer mishaps when they hit a model

Yes they can. Aim for one and roll "HIT". You do not reduce scatter by adding scatter.

Editing out a mistaken line.

Omerak - not entirely true. They only move out of the way if the Monolith would be destroyed, so you still have to roll on the mishap. Only on a 1-2 would it be destroyed.

omerakk wrote:Again, that only applies to mishaps from hitting units, it doesn't protect you from mishaps from other sources just because you managed to hit a model.

So you are saying Deepstrike is more specific than Terror from the Deep?

The more specific should be applied, and I think TftD is more specific.

0 is more specific than 0-12.

Instead of rolling mishap for hitting a unit, you do X

You still get to roll because of Warp Quake. UNit with TftD DS within range of Warp Quake is the most specific set.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Instead of rolling mishap for hitting a unit, you do X

You still get to roll because of Warp Quake. UNit with TftD DS within range of Warp Quake is the most specific set.

So would it do both?

That makes it really funny, actually.

In that case, no you wouldn't get to hit with your blast since mishaps get resolved first

Part of what I see the issue is this:

Even if the GK ability kicks in. . .if a Mawloc lands on the unit, the mishap IS caused by it being on top of the unit--that is within 12" certainly.

Editing to add:
If it is FAQ'd I entirely expect it to be against Tyranids.
And now that I have read at least a good debate on it I will have to play it that way.

I'm not convinced that the GK codex should trump the rule in the Nid one. I have two mishaps happening.Doesn't matter. I hit a model and that would be resolves by ignoring the mishap table. That is a pretty clear rule. I don't know what GW will rule but going simply by the wording and RAW it would seem I avoid any and all mishaps.

You can argue intent all you like or specifics but it seems pretty specific in the Nid codex to me. Our LGS ruled in the Nid's favor but redshirts well ... Another question for the FAQ.

felixcat wrote:

Lictors do not Deepstrike, it does not affect their deployment.

Secret deployment is a type of deep strike no? If it is not affected I would be very happy but I believe it is.

Sure isn't. Deep strike is basically being ported in or a drop pod from space, jumping out of a storm raven, etc. A secret deployment is like if a ninja suddenly appeared behind you and stabbed you... he didn't come from space...


...

or did he?!?

Felixcat - the mishap for hitting an enemy model is ignored. Nothing says you ignore the mishap caused by being in the WQ area.

I understand what you are saying. i just don't agree. The wording of Terror simply says to ignore the mishap table if you hit a model. Both mishaps occur simultaneously. If i hit a model I ignore the mishap table. It doesn't say ignore the mishap for hitting a model. It says if you hit a model bypass the mishap table. That isn't the same thing. It sure looks like a free pass by the wording.

Like I mentioned earlier though, if you manage to hit a model but are also partially off the board, you mishap for being off the game board; nothing protects you from that. You can't claim TftD protects you from all mishaps when we already have a scenario in which it doesn't.

It is only stated as protecting you from landing on a model mishaps; and since there's already a situation that causes you to mishap, you have to take an "all or none" approach with the rules. In this case, it would be a "none", since you have no way of determining which other mishaps you can claim to be protected from

omerakk wrote:Like I mentioned earlier though, if you manage to hit a model but are also partially off the board, you mishap for being off the game board; nothing protects you from that.

This is a good example. Felixcat, would you claim that there would be no mishap in this case?

"If a Mawloc Deep Strikes onto a point occupied by another model, do not roll on the Deep Strike Mishap table, but instead do the following: [...]" (Tyranid codex, pg. 51)

It seems that the mawloc does in fact not care for the reason of the mishap at all, as long as its deep strike hits another model. This would even allow you to place the mawloc onto impassible terrain, as long as you hit a skimmer/jet bike/jump infantry standing there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

somerandomdude wrote:

omerakk wrote:Like I mentioned earlier though, if you manage to hit a model but are also partially off the board, you mishap for being off the game board; nothing protects you from that.

This is a good example. Felixcat, would you claim that there would be no mishap in this case?

Any unit failing to move onto the board completely when arriving from reserves, is removed as casualty. It does not mishap due to terror from the deep, but killed by more general rules.

No, he could not be placed in impassable terrain.

No unit can be placed in impassable terrain unless they have a special rule specifically saying they can. The Mawloc doesn't have that rule

"anywhere on the table" - DS rule

Allows you to place them directly over enemy or friendly models. Specifically covered in the nid FAQ as well

omerakk wrote:No unit can be placed in impassable terrain unless they have a special rule specifically saying they can.

There is no such rule. You can't move across or into impassible terrain, nothing prevents a rule from placing the model there. The mawloc rules tell you to place the model where the blast marker was.

Jidmah wrote:

omerakk wrote:No unit can be placed in impassable terrain unless they have a special rule specifically saying they can.

There is no such rule. You can't move across or into impassible terrain, nothing prevents a rule from placing the model there. The mawloc rules tell you to place the model where the blast marker was.

pg14 brb
"Models may not be placed in impassable terrain unless the models concerned have a special rule in their profile for granting them an exception"

So, yes, there is such a rule.

A unit can ds anywhere on the board it wants, but it if hits impassable terrain, it mishaps.

There is nothing in the Mawlocs profile or faq that mentions anything about it being able to be placed in impassable terrain.