Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

How often they execute Guardsman?

I know they execute ONLY when there is no retreat intended, but I heard stories about executing Guardsman who's riffle was a little dirty and such...
So?

All I know is if a guardsman shows the smallest sign of weakness he gets a bolt in the head with an angry old man in a trench coat yelling "HERESY!!!" and giving a mean look to the other peeps

It depends on the Commissar, some are ruthless and some are more lenient.
There are stories of a commissars executing soldiers for losing their las-rifles but Hark is different

Commissar Viktor Hark wrote:
If they don't care about my badge or my gun whats the use in shooting them, they're already beyond help

The Ciaphas Cain novels give a pretty good contrast between the different commissars of the IG. One commissar had executed about half his regiment for failing to salute an officer! Whereas Cain hardly ever executes soldiers, unless it helps his odds of survival.

The commissars that Cain trained at least should learn to gain the respect of the soldiers they govern at any rate.

That's the thing-- some officers know they need to earn the respect, other officers believe they have it from the get go. How that turns out depends on the nature of hte unit.

Shayden wrote:One commissar had executed about half his regiment for failing to salute an officer!

What? Why would they assign Commissar who waste good solders for that kind of thing ?

Is there something that says about their responsibilities and permissions ( mostly I am interested in what occasions he has the permission to execute solder on the field )?

Commissars are most likely as their Soviet counterpart in WW2. They can execute Guards for any kind of stupid negligence.

Personally, I belive that Commissars are not all like that, even if it's common knowledge that they do it. They are trained at the Schola Primogena (if I recall correctly) so that means that in the end they receive a decent training on military, religious and cultural subjects.

They have a mind of their own, despite what they want to make you belive, not everyone in the Imperium acts as people described in the codex. Commisars thereso are different from one another, they might be ruthless, others instead might be more intelligent.

For the "permission to execute a soldier in the field" you should read the Guardsman infantry manual that was published some time ago, there are all the rules on how and when a Guardsman might be shot.

EDIT

basically you give soldiers to a Commissar because a Commissar might have more power than an Officer inside a regiment. If he's a nutcase he might shoot you calling you a traitor and a heretic because you don't want to give him soldiers. You'd need to have solid proof that the Commissar is an idiot to avoid reprimand, execution or else... and that's a tough thing IMHO.

Shayden wrote: One commissar had executed about half his regiment for failing to salute an officer! Whereas Cain hardly ever executes soldiers, unless it helps his odds of survival.

This... just... no. That is called lunacy- not ruthlessness, not discipline. Commissars are not homicidal maniacs dying to pull the trigger on good soldiers. I'm not sure where you are getting this fluff, but it sure as hell ain't from the same planet I'm from...

Commissars are meant to uphold the morale, discipline, and fighting strength of a regiment. To those ends, they can execute as many soldiers found wanting as they see fit. The key is "found wanting" however. Commissars that do their job right will only execute soldiers when their actions resulted, or will result, in the deterioration of the aforementioned items. Commissars that do not do their job right still need a "good" reason to execute a trooper or an officer, but this can be anything from failing to salute, to defacing the Infantryman's Primer, and other, more trivial details.

I would imagine Commissar Gaunt to be the norm and not the exception as far as Imperial Commissars go. After all, there is no way a regiment can be fit to fight (which is the Commissar's job to make sure of), if the attached Commissar decided he will execute people for every single minor offense to the Imperium. Commissars are not demi-gods in a regiment. Although they are not part of the chain of command, they still follow the command structure of the Imperial Guard. This is of course unless the orders given conflict with what the Commissar might deem appropriate. For example, if an officer calls for a retreat when there is no conceivable reason to do so, and the Commissar suspects he is simply fearing for his life, he has more than ample reason to execute him and take command. Otherwise, the Commissar (again, if he is doing his job right) will follow the instructions of the Imperial Guard command structure.

Take Colonel-Commissar Gaunt for instance. There are plenty of times in the novels when he is given orders from high command that do not make sense. Does he follow them? Of course he does. He has no right to go against command of that level unless he suspects those orders were given out of cowardice. Theoretically, he can refuse any orders from the Imperial Guard and is answerable only to other Commissars, but this is not how it works in reality. A similar thing would be like how the Inquistorial Mandate theoretically places Inquisitors second only to the Emperor himself, but you don't see Inquisitors running around shouting orders to the Ministorum, the Mechanicus, or the Astartes.

Go buy the Imperial Infantryman's Uplifitng Primer. It'll give you a good idea on when a guardsman can be executed.


There's a lot of reasons why one can be executed. A good commissar will not abuse this.

Well really depends by te Commissar like Gaunt for example, he barley ever executed anybody just likeYarrick.

Writing in the Uplifting Primer is an executable offense.

As is failure to keep your lasgun properly sighted in a warzone.

Realistically, the reason that most offenses listed in the Uplifting Primer are executable is to outline the maximum penalty, rather than the standard penalty. No commissar is going to waste ammo and morale by executing everyone who gets a bit rowdy during down time.

Think of it like the Bible. No one really expects us to stone blasphemers any more than you would execute someone for making notes in the liner on your book. If you were drawing dicks on the Aquila and starting fights every night, you are probably going to get a bolt round upside your head. And you know what? You'd deserve it because the primer basically says "You can be shot for acting like a tool."

Don't use the laws in the bible as an example, because I can provide a thousand examples to the contrary for people who follow it verbatim and chaff at the laws which prevent them from following the bible to the letter.

Religious nutjobs are religious nutjobs after all.

Depends on the commissar, Yarrick is so good he never has to do it.

Redscare wrote:

Shayden wrote: One commissar had executed about half his regiment for failing to salute an officer! Whereas Cain hardly ever executes soldiers, unless it helps his odds of survival.

This... just... no. That is called lunacy- not ruthlessness, not discipline. Commissars are not homicidal maniacs dying to pull the trigger on good soldiers. I'm not sure where you are getting this fluff, but it sure as hell ain't from the same planet I'm from...

Commissars are meant to uphold the morale, discipline, and fighting strength of a regiment. To those ends, they can execute as many soldiers found wanting as they see fit. The key is "found wanting" however. Commissars that do their job right will only execute soldiers when their actions resulted, or will result, in the deterioration of the aforementioned items. Commissars that do not do their job right still need a "good" reason to execute a trooper or an officer, but this can be anything from failing to salute, to defacing the Infantryman's Primer, and other, more trivial details.

A unit of soldiers who fail to properly salute an officer are lacking in discipline and military decorum. It is also possible that they lack respect for that officer's rank (regardless of their opinion of him as an individual), which can seriously undermine the unit's effectiveness in combat. Doesn't matter what they think of the guy wearing the stripes, their job, as soldiers, is to respect his rank and follow his orders.

The Commissar in this situation, whoever he was, was perfectly justified, and right, in executing these men. Had he not, then they may have, while in combat, disobeyed a direct order from this very same officer they did not salute, and cost the Imperium a victory. The IG can always get more soldiers.

Redscare wrote:

Shayden wrote: One commissar had executed about half his regiment for failing to salute an officer! Whereas Cain hardly ever executes soldiers, unless it helps his odds of survival.

This... just... no. That is called lunacy- not ruthlessness, not discipline. Commissars are not homicidal maniacs dying to pull the trigger on good soldiers. I'm not sure where you are getting this fluff, but it sure as hell ain't from the same planet I'm from...

The commissar described in the novel (Ciaphas Cain: Duty Calls by Sandy Mitchell if you're interested, the commisar's name was Simeon) was punished for his, and was described as a bit of a loose cannon to begin with.

If a unit displayed a lack of obedience to an officer and some of its members get executed, I can somewhat picture that, but half a regiment is thousands, upon thousands, of men. Unless there is mutiny at the regimental level, I can't even begin to picture how the Commissar is even able to execute tens of thousands of guardsmen.

Shayden, are you absolutely sure the book said half a regiment? I have the "Duty Calls" book in my library. If you can remember the page number, please tell me because this load of crap is hard to swallow, even from the BL.

Some instill discipline with respect others through fear. One in Gaunt's Ghosts routinely whips his guardsmen.

Redscare wrote:If a unit displayed a lack of obedience to an officer and some of its members get executed, I can somewhat picture that, but half a regiment is thousands, upon thousands, of men. Unless there is mutiny at the regimental level, I can't even begin to picture how the Commissar is even able to execute tens of thousands of guardsmen.

Shayden, are you absolutely sure the book said half a regiment? I have the "Duty Calls" book in my library. If you can remember the page number, please tell me.

It was something like that, I'll check... I can't guarantee the page number, seeing as how I have the book in the Defender of the Imperium collection, but I'll see if I can get the chapter number.

Like most things in the Imperium there's probably no universal standard. Commissars like Cain and Yarrick; charismatic, inspiring, and brilliant individuals, are definitely a rarity and exception though. Lunatic Commissars are likely more common then them. But ultimately I think most Commissars will only kill Guardsmen for cowardice in battle and are neither psychotic nor Cain-quality.

Crap! I can't find it! I could've sworn it was in there... oh well, it's not important.

There is a part where Cain mentions a commissar executing a load of people...
I'm pretty sure it was half of a company as opposed to half a regiment.

purplefood wrote:There is a part where Cain mentions a commissar executing a load of people...
I'm pretty sure it was half of a company as opposed to half a regiment.

That's what it was! Thanks!

Commissars vary and their uses vary as well. In one book they were used to create a 'peace-pact' between two rival tribes in a platoon. They are the representative of Imperial law and are used to make sure that planets and their peoples adhere to the same laws and guidelines.

In the book it was Tallarn and there were two rival tribes in one platoon, in order to keep them as a coherent fighting unit the commissars were in charge of making sure both tribes maintained peaceful relations. Some commissars also are used to whip companies into shape while others look for signs of corruption.

A commissar can execute a basic guardsmen for anything and as they go up the chain of command the chances of execution lessen slightly.

The Gaunt's Ghosts series is probably one of the better portrayals of the variance in commissars. Some favor execution, some favor letting them seek redemption, some favor beating people with sticks. Some are incredibly strict, some lax, and others insane.

Retreat, incompetence that leads to the death of others, improper use of weaponry are all examples of what I think are the primary reasons for execution.

I agree with those that say it varies from person to person. However, after getting to such a high rank (especially with the survival rate of IG) you would probably be a hard-ass to.

A commissar who goes around killing guardsmen all willy-nilly won't last to long himself. He'll have an "accident" with a frag grenade.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:A commissar who goes around killing guardsmen all willy-nilly won't last to long himself. He'll have an "accident" with a frag grenade.

PRIVATE! You know I dont like grenades in my oatmeal! Die for your heres...........

xXSir MontyXx wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:A commissar who goes around killing guardsmen all willy-nilly won't last to long himself. He'll have an "accident" with a frag grenade.

PRIVATE! You know I dont like grenades in my oatmeal! Die for your heres...........

Or:

Commisar: Thank you private for getting me this tedy bear, I love this things. You...are not mad I shot your brother for having a scratch on his Lasgun?
Private: No sir!!!
Commisar: Just one thing, what is this circle for?
Private: Sir, before you fall asleep just pull it out and you will sleep better. Some magic thing from Vosotak II, they tell it works.
Commisar: Thank you Private, I appreciate this.

Didn't codex Catachan have a piece about this? Friendly fire among the commissars was prone to happen.
Something like this: "Before the battle, roll a D6, for every 1, the commissar dies before the battle."

I don't know, but that would be a nice rule.


most "accidents" involve the Commissar's unit getting seperated and he doesn't come back.


I wouldn't be surprised if basilisk crews attempt to range in on them if they have the chance.