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Hey guys, i was wondering, would it be taken as cheap/unfair/ to field a Khornate/World Eaters army using the blood angels codex? I was thinking about it because i have been reading alot about doombreed and speciffically my chaos codex, and when i look at that...well... . So what do you guys think?

I would prefer to use the Black Templars, as their Zeal rule is more in line with the Khorne Berserker's rage.

And i might be wrong, but are the black templars fearless in CC?

Either the BA or SW books make far more convincing rulesets for the World Eaters than the Chaos book. I see BA more as pre- or during Heresy era, while the SW are more recent (grey hunters as veteran CSM, blood claws as recent recruits, thunderwolves as juggernauts, etc.

Commisar Von Humps wrote:And i might be wrong, but are the black templars fearless in CC?

The rule is No Pity! No Remorse! No Fear! (yes, they are).

OT: I think it depends on how you want to use the BA codex. If you want to use death company and DC dreads to do the whole terrifying in assault and blood-crazed maniac Khorne thing, then sure I could see that. If you want to use the BA codex so you can run Mephiston or deepstrike Landraiders then no, I wouldn't be behind that at all.

I don't see Blood Angels as Khorne Marines at all. Khorne isn't known to use jump packs much, and medics aren't really Khorne's MO. Personally, my dream counts-as is Khorne using the Space Wolves codex. Saga of the Warrior Born on all your characters, and use Juggernauts with Marines on top for Thunderwolf Cavalry. Don't use Rune Priests, and use lots of Grey Hunters. Daemons can be represented with Fenrisian Wolves I guess.

I've seen pre-heresy World Eaters used with the BA Codex, it worked pretty well.

Brother SRM wrote: Saga of the Warrior Born on all your characters

That's illegal.

No, I'd see more the Space Wolves Codex, honestly.

By the way, Black Templars might be better with the Word Bearers due to zeal , don't you think ?

tavoittamaton wrote:

Commisar Von Humps wrote:And i might be wrong, but are the black templars fearless in CC?

The rule is No Pity! No Remorse! No Fear! (yes, they are).

OT: I think it depends on how you want to use the BA codex. If you want to use death company and DC dreads to do the whole terrifying in assault and blood-crazed maniac Khorne thing, then sure I could see that. If you want to use the BA codex so you can run Mephiston or deepstrike Landraiders then no, I wouldn't be behind that at all.

That was my plan from the begining. Lots of exppensive psychos with uber chainswords. And I would use Chapter Master Seth as my grand Chaos lord/Kharn.

EDIT: Also, what kind of puss would run a Psyker in an army of the Blood god?

Commisar Von Humps wrote:That was my plan from the begining. Lots of exppensive psychos with uber chainswords. And I would use Chapter Master Seth as my grand Chaos lord/Kharn.

Go for it. Not sure how much you've looked at the codex, but if you want more than one squad of DC you'll need to take Astorath (note, you can take 1 DC squad and 1-5 DC dreads without him).

The thing to bear in mind with a list like that is that you won't have any scoring units, so your objective is to table the opponent every game. I can see that being very fluffy, but if you haven't used rage before it may cause considerable frustration versus a savvy opponent.

Good luck, anyway! Post pics on the forum so we can all see how it turns out.

Alrigty then. I was thinking of using a squad of Regualr assault marines in rhino, or 2 squads of them to represent either newly inducted marines or those who have learned to sate there blood lust at times. I migth want to use a Flamestorm predator...it shoots....acidic blood...? Also, would it be easy to kit bash a DC and Berzerker kit or would it look like a mess?

Commisar Von Humps wrote:Alrigty then. I was thinking of using a squad of Regualr assault marines in rhino, or 2 squads of them to represent either newly inducted marines or those who have learned to sate there blood lust at times. I migth want to use a Flamestorm predator...it shoots....acidic blood...? Also, would it be easy to kit bash a DC and Berzerker kit or would it look like a mess?

I like the idea of the flamestorm, up close and personal.

The DC kit is awash in BA heraldry. Lots (I mean LOTS) of wings and blood drops. If you are not going to use jump packs, then why not just use Khorne Berserkers? Or does that not give you enough BP/CCW? You seem to get more bang for your buck from them, as the DC kit is 5 @ $33 and the Berserkers Kit is 12 @ $33...

withershadow wrote:

Brother SRM wrote: Saga of the Warrior Born on all your characters

That's illegal.

Oh no, my entire argument has been invalidated!

Whatever, Warrior Born on your lord then. I haven't read the Wolf codex in a while.

So it'd be like Beserkers are Death Company n stuff?

That sounds like it could work, I especially like the idea of a Furioso Dreadnought with 2 blood talons as a Chaos dreadnought mauling an entire group of Nid warriors or a mob of boyz

Personally I really don't see the SW codex as a very fluffy world eaters codex. The only thing in there that I think works well for that purpose is thunderwolves, and blood claws.

On the other hand, BA have death company, assault squads with dirt cheap fast transports. They have Gabriel Seth, although not known for their medics, khorne berserkers had feel no pain before nurgle did. And, BA have the fastest vehicles of all SM, as well as the most assault vehicles.

But more than any of that, lets look at how the books are designed. The Space Wolves are designed to be a balanced shooty/close combat army. They provide a solid wall of shooting with special weapons, bolters, and long fangs providing heavy support. Then only when assaulted do they get to use their special rule, counter assault to hopefully keep the enemy overwhelmed. They are much more of a tactically flexible army than how the blood angels or khornate world eaters are designed. Both WE and BA are designed to get to the enemy as fast as possible, to hit them in the face with the sledge hammer that is furious charge and two close combat weapons.

Hell, I'd say SW are more designed to be an Emperors Children- with the above average shooting combined with the above average assault.

The Chaos codex is good enough. Just sit down and play with it. tons of berserkers in rhinos (or worse Land Raiders) and havocs are a tough nut to crack.

Just deal.

Space Wolves all have a pistol and close combat weapon too though. They're no less choppy.

The Chaos Book can still do World Eaters pretty well, mostly because Kharn makes up most of the shortcomings and Berserkers are pretty good for the poitns you pay.

I forgot about the Death Company. I can see an Astorath-led DC army work as a World Eaters warband as well. Anything else though I'd call shenanigans.

Brother SRM wrote:Space Wolves all have a pistol and close combat weapon too though. They're no less choppy.

Yes, you are right. SW does get bolt pistols and ccw. But, if that is all you are going for you'd be just as good off using regular chaos marines to represent your berserkers. It's definitely justifiable, but imo grey hunters are at their best when used with tactical restraint, using their shooting to weaken the enemy and finish them off by counter assaulting their weakened units. This uses their special rules to their ability as well. The BA dex on the other hand does the lobotomized cc maniac ruleset perfectly.

Now I do also think that the chaos codex does world eaters perfectly well. I think that people just complain about it because in general humans don't like change. I also think it's perfectly fine to use another marine codex if it has a feel you prefer.

I love the chaos codex, play a slaanesh list with no daemon princes, lash, obliterators, or plague marines. Just noise marines, bikers, and dreadnoughts. The only reason I don't play the army is because I am completely sick of playing or against marine armies. Out of 30 people at my LGS, 25 only play marines, probably 15-20 played BA until the GK came out, now most of those switched. So instead I play an Arbites list using IG with no plasma guns, meltavets, or vendettas.

Brother SRM wrote:I don't see Blood Angels as Khorne Marines at all. Khorne isn't known to use jump packs much, and medics aren't really Khorne's MO.

Did he say he was going to use jump packs or priests? Those aren't the only things in the BA codex, you know.

Now, it wouldn't be a problem to have one or two jump pack units, but they should not form the basis of a world eaters list, although they would be fine for another Khornate legion/chapter/warband.

But berserkers have always been lobotomized warriors engineered to feel no pain, and along with the death company were the originators of the current rule. Just play a sang priest as a marine carrying an icon of Khorne, and I'd say go for it.

I am a World Eaters fanatic. I totally have poured through all the different marine books trying to find a good substitute, and they all work really well, but I love the actual berzerkers, and any army list I try to make just ends up being lotsa marine/berzerkers in Rhinos, which Chaos still does pretty well (and has Demon Princes and the el Cheapo Greater Demon). I have pretty good success with that list as well.

That's just me though, if you want to, go for it.

But for space wolves, the only unit I really want are the Thunderwolves for Juggernaught "counts as", and for Blood Angels I want the AV13 dreads. I just make do with the chaos dex because my armies always end up too similiar, and I'm really only trading Demon Princes for either Thunderwolves or AV13 Dreads.

EDIT: I run only berzerkers in my chaos army, and it would be nice to have non-crappy leadership space marines with dual meltas or something, but the Chaos Rhino's get Combi-meltas as well which are pretty handy, so I just make do.

GO for it. Thematically, I'd steer away from jumptroops but otherwise its fine. I personally think the SW codex is more appropriate, representing the full aspect of Khorne but thats just me. The BA would definitely represent the frothing maniac aspect better I think.

Yeah, really im just going to start small. Astorath, And 2 DC squads with maybe a dreadnought for small games or as allies if allowed.

roadkizzle wrote:Now, it wouldn't be a problem to have one or two jump pack units, but they should not form the basis of a world eaters list, although they would be fine for another Khornate legion/chapter/warband.

But berserkers have always been lobotomized warriors engineered to feel no pain, and along with the death company were the originators of the current rule. Just play a sang priest as a marine carrying an icon of Khorne, and I'd say go for it.

I think he did mention something about using 1-2, in vehicles (aka no JPs), as younger recruits. I don't personally have a problem with that, especially when you consider that nearly every marine unit in the codex can get Red Thirst (assault marines included). It's not a reliable mechanic, but it does seem to fit the whole "release your anger" notion. The SP as a marine with icon is a great idea, and you have just as much conversion opportunity there as BA players have with their cups.

Now, I'm far from a World Eaters expert, so I'm going from Lexicanum here...

Lexicanum article on World Eaters wrote:Even before their fall to Chaos the World Eaters were known as a bloodthirsty Legion, and becoming the chosen Legion of Khorne did little to change this. In battle they disregard mortal peril to sate their bloodlust in close combat, often displaying a berserker rage that makes them invulnerable to wounds that would kill even a Space Marine.

The preferred method of assault for the World Eaters is a Drop Pod assault, followed by a charge into enemy lines. They have also been known to drop right into enemy formations. Unlike other Space Marines who use tactical attacks with squads, the World Eaters tend to throw themselves as a whole force in the middle of battle.

It is worth noting that the most common close combat weapon in the World Eaters is the Khorne Chainaxe, a weapon seldom seen outside the Legion. In the hand of a berserking Marine it is a fearsome weapon, capable of hacking through even Power Armour.

Emphasis mine, of course.

Now, I hate traitor heretics as much as the next guy, and I am a BA player, so the last thing I want is to aid the enemy. However, I just don't see how C:SW fits that theme better than C:BA does. To me, it's hard to envision a list that fits that better than drop-podding DC into enemy lines, who have FC/FNP/Rage and can take BP/CCW. I'm not saying you can't do something similar as SW, but I think it would feel forced.

Based on that passage, I'll also reemphasize my suggestion to use Khorne Beserkers for a counts-as army. Not only is it a better deal, but you get the chainaxes which are apparently pretty iconic.

Sorry for the double post, But this is what i had in mind for my list:

HQ: Gladiator Lord Cruor Securis(Astorath Counts as) - 220 Points

Elites: Devotee of The Blood God(Priest): Power Weapon, Melta bombs - 70 points

Troops: Scarlet Tragedy(DC dreadnought): Blood Talons, Drop Pod - 160 points

The Gore Winds(DC): 9 Marines, Thunder Hammer, Infernus Pistol, Power Weapon, Drop Pod - 275 points

Vein Splitters(DC): 9 Marines, Thunder Hammer, Infernus Pistol, Power Weapon, Drop Pod - 275 Points
o
TOTAL: 1000

Should i drop the rhinos for pods as to make it more fluffy?

I want to make sure this list is as cheese free as possible. This is just a rough idea and I realise the only game i can actually win is Ahnialation, but still, Who needs objectives? When you get lemons, BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! Would it get cut down too fast by something shooty like Guard or Tau?

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:The Chaos codex is good enough. Just sit down and play with it. tons of berserkers in rhinos (or worse Land Raiders) and havocs are a tough nut to crack.

Just deal.

Why, though?

The Chaos codex is bland and boring. Why "deal" when you can play something you like more?

withershadow wrote:

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:The Chaos codex is good enough. Just sit down and play with it. tons of berserkers in rhinos (or worse Land Raiders) and havocs are a tough nut to crack.

Just deal.

Why, though?

The Chaos codex is bland and boring. Why "deal" when you can play something you like more?

Exactly. Death Company put the actual Berzerkers to shame. And, they do have DROP PODS(Primary tactic of World Eaters).

Commisar Von Humps wrote:Sorry for the double post, But this is what i had in mind for my list:

HQ: Gladiator Lord Cruor Securis(Astorath Counts as) - 220 Points

Elites: Devotee of The Blood God(Priest): Power Weapon, Melta bombs - 70 points

Troops: Scarlet Tragedy(DC dreadnought): Blood Talons, Drop Pod - 160 points

The Gore Winds(DC): 9 Marines, Thunder Hammer, Infernus Pistol, Power Weapon, Drop Pod - 275 points

Vein Splitters(DC): 9 Marines, Thunder Hammer, Infernus Pistol, Power Weapon, Drop Pod - 275 Points
o
TOTAL: 1000

Should i drop the rhinos for pods as to make it more fluffy?

I want to make sure this list is as cheese free as possible. This is just a rough idea and I realise the only game i can actually win is Ahnialation, but still, Who needs objectives? When you get lemons, BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! Would it get cut down too fast by something shooty like Guard or Tau?

Well, technically I think you win any game if you table your opponent, so...

But back to your list: take out the Sanguinary Priest. He confers FC/FNP on surrounding units...which DC already have.

I can't recommend enough that you put a chaplain in your DC squads. Chaplains are an elite slot in the codex, and he does so much for DC because they reroll hits and wounds on the charge. Find the points, it's well worth it.