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I'm just getting into Warmachine and I was wondering what kind of points people play at, both in regular friendly games and in tournaments? What's the norm, and what size games do people prefer?

35 points seems to be the norm, but I believe 50 points is pretty popular as well.

Tournaments range from 15 to 50 points. Our local tournaments tend to be 15 to 35 with the lower point values being the more popular. The larger toutnaments seem to run 50 points more frequently. At our LGS the standard range is 15 to 50 with 35 being the most popular. I prefer 50 and up. I have a 150 planned for this weekend for example. Many players are just starting or have other interests so one has to be flexible. I recently set up a battle box army equivalent to give a new player a game.

also 25pts is pretty popular

I like the look of 35pts, I must say. Looks like enough models to be nice and diverse, but not so big as to take a hugely long time.

Speaking of which.
@horsa: How long does a 150pt game take? It sounds huge!

At our store, 35 points is normal, but I've also played smaller games with opponents who are just starting out. If you're new to Warmachine, it shouldn't be difficult to find games with people who are willing to play at lower point levels. I know at my LGS a lot of people are willing to let you borrow their minis for a game or two if you want to try stuff out, as well.

Unless I'm specifically trying to work with new players, our local group doesn't play anything smaller than 35. The national tournaments almost all stick to 50 points, so thats what we normally play game wise.

htj wrote:I like the look of 35pts, I must say. Looks like enough models to be nice and diverse, but not so big as to take a hugely long time.

Speaking of which.
@horsa: How long does a 150pt game take? It sounds huge!

I played a 100 pt game yesterday, which took about 4 hours, counting a dinner break. Probably add an hour for the next step up, although the upcoming Unbound rules should cut it down some.

I don't like games under 35 or so. 15 point games seem unbalanced unless they are a Mangled Metal 'jack only game.

There's a serious chance your opponent will field something you simply can't handle. Like a Def 17 Winterguard deathstar.

Easily handled by a 9 point Devastator. At my FLGS the standard game is 25 points.

If you play Khador, and bring a devastator. What if you don't? What if you were playing pNemo and had no AEs?

Or what if a Cygnar player spends 12 points for a Centurion with JR. for an arcane shield buff? How many lists can handle a arm 24 heavy jack in 15 points?

15 in WM feels like under 1k in 40k or fantasy. Too small to take a wide array of tools, so if you find something you can't handle you have a severe problem.

From what ive heard 35 and 50 are the most common, but unlike 40k people are willimg to play any point level

The Grog wrote:If you play Khador, and bring a devastator. What if you don't? What if you were playing pNemo and had no AEs?

Or what if a Cygnar player spends 12 points for a Centurion with JR. for an arcane shield buff? How many lists can handle a arm 24 heavy jack in 15 points?

15 in WM feels like under 1k in 40k or fantasy. Too small to take a wide array of tools, so if you find something you can't handle you have a severe problem.

I have the list to do it
Karchev
Behemoth
Juggy
there 15 points
I hit with AP, reducing your armor to 15 points IRRC, which mean i need a minimum of 3 to hurt +UR, three should be an easy number
Or I could Throw the centurion, I believe everyone have open fists in their list right now
Or I can kill your caster
spending 12 point for your 15 point list, leave you with about average 9 point for WC+Jack, sure it cripples some list

Hence why we have bad matchups

The Grog wrote:If you play Khador, and bring a devastator. What if you don't? What if you were playing pNemo and had no AEs?

Or what if a Cygnar player spends 12 points for a Centurion with JR. for an arcane shield buff? How many lists can handle a arm 24 heavy jack in 15 points?

15 in WM feels like under 1k in 40k or fantasy. Too small to take a wide array of tools, so if you find something you can't handle you have a severe problem.

As has been said by many people on this board warmahordes is a lot like rock-paper-scissors what easily beats one thing gets destroyed by another. There are ways to beat any combination and there are combinations that can wipe the board vs other armies. It all depends on what you have, what you're facing and, how lucky you get with the dice.

The Grog wrote:If you play Khador, and bring a devastator. What if you don't? What if you were playing pNemo and had no AEs?

pNemo without the Thunderhead? Blasphemous. Either Nemo should never be without an AE. Plus pNemo has chain lightning which is usually better than an AE.

Or what if a Cygnar player spends 12 points for a Centurion with JR. for an arcane shield buff? How many lists can handle a arm 24 heavy jack in 15 points?

I'd thank the guy for taking it. 5 damage and the Cent is standing around being really useless as opposed to mostly outclassed by every other jack in the army.

15 in WM feels like under 1k in 40k or fantasy. Too small to take a wide array of tools, so if you find something you can't handle you have a severe problem.

This is why Legion is so nasty at MM/TC. pThags and Absolonia. They can handle about anything with their feats.

@12th

I'll see your Thags(p or e) and Abby and I raise you eKaya and Kromac at 15pts...

Of course if you're playing 15 point games you should probably
be playing more of them.

Bakerofish wrote:@12th

I'll see your Thags(p or e) and Abby and I raise you eKaya and Kromac at 15pts...

Never seen either of them at 15 points. I still think I'd call that raise with a pocket pair of Typhons though.

Meh, at 15pts its really easy to see things you can't counter, but the same is true for your opponent. If you're tired of sevant armies, build one of your own and wreck face.

In general 15pt undefined is a poor format, just because WM has too many things that require a specific counter. Formats like highlander or Mangled Metal help out some, but it's still really unbalanced and more than a few casters love it because avoiding assassinations with so few models on the table can often be next to impossible.

Mastershake wrote:In general 15pt undefined is a poor format, just because WM has too many things that require a specific counter. Formats like highlander or Mangled Metal help out some, but it's still really unbalanced and more than a few casters love it because avoiding assassinations with so few models on the table can often be next to impossible.

Seriously. Epic Caine anyone? All he needs is Squire and Reinholdt if there's only a few models hiding the enemy caster. Warlocks can weather the storm a bit better, but at the cost of their 'beasts, which is a terrible trade.

15 point games should be learner games, anyone playing exclusively at that level is doing themselves and their opponents a disservice.

-Dis.

The thing about WM/H is that the game is over once your leader dies.

Even moderately experienced players are are simply brutal when it comes to assassination, and assassinations become easier and easier the fewer and fewer pieces that are on the board.

35 points is about the point where games start getting good.

50 points is about the point where you can get all the models you want into your list, but the game doesn't take too long to play.

People tend to play either 35 or 50 once they've got enough models to do so.


Anything less than 35 points runs a real risk of devolving into a "bang your dead" situation, and anything over 50 runs a real risk of taking too long to play.

So, about how long would a 35 point game last?
About how long would a 50 point game last?

I understand that assassination can happen fairly early if one of the players overwhelmed.

Hoping to make an after-school club where I work, and I would like to be able to average 2 games in about 1 1/2 hours.

Should be doable at 35 points, they take 30 mins to an hour each.

I still think 35 points is the best points level to play at personally, since you get enough models, but still have to compromise for not bringing everything you may want, making it all the more fun.

Though I also love 15 battles too for their quickness and often outrageous kills

Out of curiosity how big is a 35 pt. army? That seems to be the standard size at a shop near us. My wife and I just ordered PP anniversary bundles so we're starting from there. I'm curious how much more we'll need to hit 35.

Thrain wrote:Out of curiosity how big is a 35 pt. army? That seems to be the standard size at a shop near us. My wife and I just ordered PP anniversary bundles so we're starting from there. I'm curious how much more we'll need to hit 35.

Depends on your build(Jack/Beast heavy vs Infantry heavy vs "balance") and choice of Faction(some factions/Casters/Locks simply run a certain build better). There is no magic number.

The smallest I've run is a 7 model army and that was with pVlad, warpuppy, and 5 jacks (and not 'zerker spam). Worked pretty well too. On the other side, I've run epic Irusk armies tier list that had close to 50 (two jacks) in it for a league.

Cryx and some Hordes armies can have 30-40 models on the board. That's rough to do at a steamroller tournament though since you have timed turns. Same with my above eIrusk army, I'd never play that in a steamroller.

It honestly depends on what you're going to buy. Some models are more expensive simply because it's a huge chunk of metal, or a lot of small chunks.

Anpu-adom wrote:So, about how long would a 35 point game last?

At our local club we can get an average of two 35pt battles in 2.5/3 hours of time. But this includes all the chatting and social side of things rather than just playing hard and fast.

12thRonin wrote:The smallest I've run is a 7 model army and that was with pVlad, warpuppy, and 5 jacks (and not 'zerker spam). Worked pretty well too. On the other side, I've run epic Irusk armies tier list that had close to 50 (two jacks) in it for a league.

Cryx and some Hordes armies can have 30-40 models on the board. That's rough to do at a steamroller tournament though since you have timed turns. Same with my above eIrusk army, I'd never play that in a steamroller.

I just counted up the models that might go in a pKreoss group at 35 and came up with 31 models (only 2 jacks, but with Sisters and Exemplar Errants).

My standard eLyl list for 35 points has 12 models (3 beasts).