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I'd like to make a viable GK OSR list. I understand the difficultys as OSR always scatters the full 2D6. But is there a way (with Karamazov's ability) to make use of an effective OSR?

My first idea was use Callidus assassin to take out a good unit on the opponents side then use Karamazov attached to the squad with Astral Aim to give the assassin a 4+ save and target it with OSR. . would this work?

Also thought about the OSR on top of the corner of a land raider?

Any ideas? thoughts?

the rapid fire OSR on terminators is somewhat safe if you aren't deployed in a clump.

Ive used it to finish off my own stragglers stuck in CC so the enemy gets no consolidate and is out of combat then drop the big guns on them.

3 Techmarines with OSRs are bound to hit something...

nivondu wrote:..... as OSR always scatters the full 2D6.

Don't servo skulls reduce this down to D6 if within range?

I'm sure it will be FAQed but right now its up for debate. Some say yes some say no.

Jaon wrote:3 Techmarines with OSRs are bound to hit something...

4 OSR is the way to go. Can you even imagine how one sided certain games will be with this!

The Callidus Assassin trick is also awesome, but expensive...

nivondu wrote:
My first idea was use Callidus assassin to take out a good unit on the opponents side then use Karamazov attached to the squad with Astral Aim to give the assassin a 4+ save and target it with OSR. . would this work?

Any ideas? thoughts?

Assassins are 4++ so no need for the cover save from Astral Aim.

Right, thanks for the reminder

I used one against SW for a game and it was pretty meh. I was even getting 3 shots each turn, but i still was getting barely any wounds. They seem like a bad use of 50 points.
I could see them smashing face against an army with 4+ but most grey knight builds don't really need more anti-horde tools.

Why wouldn't you use the AP1 Lance Strike against well armored foes?

Because it's a small blast that scatters 2d6. Also, you only get one shot. The chances of it hitting someone who is anticipating it are low.

Currently Karamazov is the only way to really use a strike relay as with him you can make plans. You can run a model to 1 inch away of something like a vehicle, use the lance autohit 1.5 inch blast to smack the vehicle with s10 ap1 av12, and get an invuln save on the model hit (works best with a crusader I imagine).

Without the FAQ letting skulls reduce the scatter, all other OSRs become kinda useless. Consider, instead of that 50 pt strike relay, you could get a psycannon (GM) or conversion beamer. These weapons have much better odds of being useful and cost less.

This is also up for a rules debate, but in theory you can take a master crafted OSR. It would be neat.

Yeah, I'm probably going with conversion beamer and psyker spam.

DevianID wrote:Currently Karamazov is the only way to really use a strike relay as with him you can make plans. You can run a model to 1 inch away of something like a vehicle, use the lance autohit 1.5 inch blast to smack the vehicle with s10 ap1 av12,

Except you'd be hitting the vehicle with the marker without having the hole on it, meaning it is a half-strength shot.

I really dislike any weapon where the only place you absolutely cannot possibly hit is the place you're aiming at. A 5" blast template has a 2.5" radius. The minimum possible scatter on 2 dice is 2 inches, and that's only going to happen one in thirty-six times. 35 times out of 36, the model that you center the template on is going to be the safest model. That just doesn't make any sense to me. I get that you're firing from outer space and all, but you should still have some chance of hitting what you're aiming at or the weapon is of little use.

You make alot of sense Redbeard. It really makes OSR so hit-or-miss that its never reliable.

somerandomdude wrote:

DevianID wrote:Currently Karamazov is the only way to really use a strike relay as with him you can make plans. You can run a model to 1 inch away of something like a vehicle, use the lance autohit 1.5 inch blast to smack the vehicle with s10 ap1 av12,

Except you'd be hitting the vehicle with the marker without having the hole on it, meaning it is a half-strength shot.

Lance strike is full strength against whatever the template touches, iirc.

pretre wrote:Lance strike is full strength against whatever the template touches, iirc.

not lance in particular i dont think, but the weapon does specifically states this

Grundz wrote:

pretre wrote:Lance strike is full strength against whatever the template touches, iirc.

not lance in particular i dont think, but the weapon does specifically states this

Right, that's why I said 'Lance Strike', which is the name of the weapon.

You could always just go all out, and MSU crusader squads, and drop the pieplates on their heads as soon as you get them into CC. Safest unit you could use for it.

OSR viability is a lot like the IG's Moo's viability. It's quite low on low point games, but it's very viable in a high point game. At the 2,500 point level the battlefield is so crowded that it's going to hit something, not so much at 1,500 points.

The largest drawback to the OSR isn't it's so much the high cost, it's the platform. The can't move and fire OSR is on the same platform as 2 CC combat monsters the GM and inquisitor, both of which carry the mean grenades. A HQ with an OSR can not be charging into the fray and dropping pie at the same time.

schadenfreude wrote:
The largest drawback to the OSR isn't it's so much the high cost, it's the platform. The can't move and fire OSR is on the same platform as 2 CC combat monsters the GM and inquisitor, both of which carry the mean grenades. A HQ with an OSR can not be charging into the fray and dropping pie at the same time.

Well, then its a good thing there Elites that get them.

Noir wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:
The largest drawback to the OSR isn't it's so much the high cost, it's the platform. The can't move and fire OSR is on the same platform as 2 CC combat monsters the GM and inquisitor, both of which carry the mean grenades. A HQ with an OSR can not be charging into the fray and dropping pie at the same time.

Well, then its a good thing there Elites that get them.

Single wound elites with no invo save.

schadenfreude wrote:

Noir wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:
The largest drawback to the OSR isn't it's so much the high cost, it's the platform. The can't move and fire OSR is on the same platform as 2 CC combat monsters the GM and inquisitor, both of which carry the mean grenades. A HQ with an OSR can not be charging into the fray and dropping pie at the same time.

Well, then its a good thing there Elites that get them.

Single wound elites with no invo save.

And 3+ cover saves. The 1 wound only a problem if you set him out alone in no cover, going "Hey Shot Me".

Noir wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

Noir wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:
The largest drawback to the OSR isn't it's so much the high cost, it's the platform. The can't move and fire OSR is on the same platform as 2 CC combat monsters the GM and inquisitor, both of which carry the mean grenades. A HQ with an OSR can not be charging into the fray and dropping pie at the same time.

Well, then its a good thing there Elites that get them.

Single wound elites with no invo save.

And 3+ cover saves. The 1 wound only a problem if you set him out alone in no cover, going "Hey Shot Me".

After the cost of the OSR a techmarine is as expensive as a vindicare, but he only has a single wound to the Vindicare's 2 wounds. End result is he's twice as vulnerable as a vindicare, which is a very vulnerable unit.

I guess you could double down and use the techmarine to give the vindicare a 2+ cover save, but then we're talking about nearly 300 points for 3 wounds worth of models.

schadenfreude wrote:After the cost of the OSR a techmarine is as expensive as a vindicare, but he only has a single wound to the Vindicare's 2 wounds. End result is he's twice as vulnerable as a vindicare, which is a very vulnerable unit.

I guess you could double down and use the techmarine to give the vindicare a 2+ cover save, but then we're talking about nearly 300 points for 3 wounds worth of models.

The big difference though is the techmarine is an IC while the vindicare is not. You can hide the techmarine in a small squad sitting on an objective.

OSR's can be very effective, although it does rely a bit on luck. So what you do is bend the luck to your favour, like everything in 40k.

Karamazov lets you place without scatter on your own guys so him + a sacrifical crusader squad, which he lets you buy can be quite effective.

Techmarines with OSR's can be very effective, especially since they can buy Servo-skulls. Unfortunately after a turn or two, most of the servos will be gone, so use it wisely, especially the lance strike on the tough vehicles like Landraiders and the such.

The barrage bomb would benefit from actually being a barrage weapon, but it can put out alot of large blasts over the course of a game. The barrage blast is great for softening up hordes or even meqs.

The Psyk-out is... situational at best. So far I've never had the chance to use it...

But yeah, they aren't bad at all, aslong as you play them right. If you have a spare elite slot, somehow, throwing one in for 149 points may not be a waste, and the bolstering ruins can help hold objectives or just keep alive stuff like the vindicare.

As independent characters, thechmarines can hide in squads, some cheap warrior acolytes and maybe a few monkeys can keep them alive quite cheaply, and possibly hold objectives with Coteaz. Plus the jokaeros might make the strikes rending, or give them +12" range. (infinity+12=?)

Noir wrote:And 3+ cover saves. The 1 wound only a problem if you set him out alone in no cover, going "Hey Shot Me".

You mean we're not supposed to have our IC's out in the middle of a feild, unescorted, holding a giant "shoot me!" sign?

mind=blown

Maelstrom: better yet use that Tech marine's bolster defenses and place the objective in those ruins: Techmarine+attending squad now have a 3+ cover, and can be a many-gunned squad that scores with a GM.

Another reason to take Techmarines: 2 point discount on Servo skulls(vs other marines).

Kommissar Kel wrote:Maelstrom: better yet use that Tech marine's bolster defenses and place the objective in those ruins: Techmarine+attending squad now have a 3+ cover, and can be a many-gunned squad that scores with a GM.

I figured that was kind of a given