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The Mechanicus it would seem is right on the line of heretic if not past it already.... my theory is to learn of those who support the Emperor whole heartedly, and then clean out mars. Obviously there is some fine tuning for this plan but it would get rid' of all of those that would immediately support the void dragon if it woke up. The NEW mechanicus would be much more easy going and supportive of Imperium troops. Those that are still loyal would keep the knowledge of the tech on the planet so the loss of knowledge would be...... minimal.

Thoughts?

Youre basing youre accusations of Heresy on????

1hadhq wrote: Youre basing youre accusations of Heresy on????

Well the worshiping of the void dragon is well....... heresy.

They are willing to kill anyone who doesnt follow their rituals and rules for Imperium tech. (although space marines kill those who disrespect their chapter leader or primarch.....)

They only get away with it because of what their studies yield. If the void dragon were to wake up there would be another large civil war.

Yes.. but 99.9% of all AdMech don't know the Void Dragon exists. What's more, it was the Emperor's will (and action) that lead to the Dragon being imprisoned on Mars, as he wanted humanity to gain great technological power when the time was right - by worshipping the Void Dragon, or "Omnissiah" as they call it.

Well the higher ups know it is the void dragon right? This would mean the lower ranks would follow them to the death. Like the rest of the Imperium the mechanicus can have easily have misunderstood this intention.....

I say send the Inquisition, kill all those who know about Void Dragon. And leave the Mechanicus as it is...

Only a very small number of Mechanicum members know of the Void Dragon. The vast majority worship 'The Omissiah' as a separate figure with no connections to the C'tan, or The Emperor. The high up echelons are cleansed, they lower ones don't know it even happened and continue to worship because they draw no connection between the Omnissiah and the Void Dragon.

iproxtaco wrote:Only a very small number of Mechanicum members know of the Void Dragon. The vast majority worship 'The Omissiah' as a separate figure with no connections to the C'tan, or The Emperor. The high up echelons are cleansed, they lower ones don't know it even happened and continue to worship because they draw no connection between the Omnissiah and the Void Dragon.

There's a reason those "Higher-Ups" know. Otherwise they wouldn't.

Besides, the justification for it is that it's the Emperor's will that things are this way.

You do realise that Mars is a completely seperate empire to the IoM and without it the IoM would be fall apart, if the IoM tried to 'take over' Mars it would tear apart the IoM and probably be far worse than the Horus Heresy.

BluntmanDC wrote:You do realise that Mars is a completely seperate empire to the IoM and without it the IoM would be fall apart, if the IoM tried to 'take over' Mars it would tear apart the IoM and probably be far worse than the Horus Heresy.

I actually did not realize that it was a separate empire, though I do know the Imperium would fall apart without it. The cleansing would have to be "quiet" accidents here and there replacing the previous high ranking Ad mech official by an individual loyal to the Emperor and who knows what side they are on when it comes to the void dragon waking up for breakfast.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:You do realise that Mars is a completely seperate empire to the IoM and without it the IoM would be fall apart, if the IoM tried to 'take over' Mars it would tear apart the IoM and probably be far worse than the Horus Heresy.

I actually did not realize that it was a separate empire, though I do know the Imperium would fall apart without it. The cleansing would have to be "quiet" accidents here and there replacing the previous high ranking Ad mech official by an individual loyal to the Emperor and who knows what side they are on when it comes to the void dragon waking up for breakfast.

Read Titanicus. The marriage of IOM and Mechanicis nesasary for both factions but that is as far as it goes. Even the Inquisistion would blanch at crossing the Mars like that. If it happened it would just be an endless series of "accidents" because all of the replacements would have as little caring toward the Emperor as the last guy. With how most(or half depending) view the entire Emperor/Omnissiah thing, they could be perfectly loyal and still worship(revere would be a better word) both entities. The other half does believe that the Emperor/Omnissiah is in fact the same entity and the Dragon waking up would pretty much be an existential nightmare for them.

As others have said the IoM have no control over the admech. There would be no way to take out mars without starting a war. All forge worlds are heavily protected by machines and armies of skitari. Plus the ad mech control the titans.

You do know, the mechanicus is easily as powerful as the Imperium right? I agree that they have to be cleansed, but the resouces use for this so called cleansing would be enormous, billions of guardsmen and SM would have to take part and the navy would have to destroy Mars partially to get there. Plus the logistical process to identify loyalists to either 'God' and that Mars has to be taken one step at a time. Needed but impossible is my view.

This cleansing if at all official would mean the end of the IoM. even a covert solution would probably be discovered given that the mechanicus have some of the best intelligence in the galaxy. They hold all the codes and all the keys. They will find the responsible ones. In any case, what they call the machine god is of no consequence to the rest of the imperium. this struggle is internal in the mechanicus and has resulted in wars before.

Can we call it operation suicide?

Here's the issue with cleansing the Adeptus Mechanicus:

They control and repair and manufacture ALL of the IoM tech,

including the guns, the ammo, the starships, the tanks, the Titans, the void shields, the transports, the Dreadnoughts, the bionics, the vox systems, the astropathic choirs on the planets, the automated defenses, the relics, the close-combat weaponry if it's not a sharp piece of metal tied to a stick, the auspex, the power armor, the Terminator armor, the Valkyries, the Thunderhawks, the warp engines, the planetary defenses, the space stations, the jump packs, the melta bombs, the teleport homers, the land speeders, the passcodes, and countless other things, like irrigation devices.

And the really good stuff, like the Titans, only they operate.

Now, if you go and kill all of the Ad Mech who believe in the Omnissiah, there's a problem, because either a) You just killed everybody who can fix your stuff, and if so much as a wire gets loose, that piece of equipment is useless, or b) a civil war erupts similar to that in the Horus Heresy as techpriests (and, quite possibly, techmarines) all realize they're being hunted because they might believe too much in their Omnissiah, and leave the IoM, or worse, wage war with it. The IoM can't fight back if they have no weapons, or if their weapons become sabotaged, their access codes to their big guns are useless, their ships fall apart from no maintenance, and they lose communication.

tarnish wrote:This cleansing if at all official would mean the end of the IoM. even a covert solution would probably be discovered given that the mechanicus have some of the best intelligence in the galaxy. They hold all the codes and all the keys. They will find the responsible ones. In any case, what they call the machine god is of no consequence to the rest of the imperium. this struggle is internal in the mechanicus and has resulted in wars before.

Think of it as a hostile takeover, you slowly take over...... from the inside. The reason I even brought this idea up is that millions of lives are lost due to the admechs strict religious needs. The slightest disrespect means the loss of titan support, or the loss of supplies and back-up for a beleaguered planet because of their idiocy.

It wouldn't work. The admech recruit from their own planets using people who have complete faith in the machine god. They won't let anyone else in

but millions of lives are lost if an Inq wakes up one morning, and decides hes bored with trying to find one little thing on some backwater planet, and poof, virus bombs everywhere.

So lets take over the Inq while we're at it.

Klogger wrote:but millions of lives are lost if an Inq wakes up one morning, and decides hes bored with trying to find one little thing on some backwater planet, and poof, virus bombs everywhere.

So lets take over the Inq while we're at it.

Well somebody should watch over them to, but then again its not THAT easy to use virus bombs.

But that's the whole "Who watches the Watchmen" question, without the superhero part. You're suggesting eliminating several of the pillars that are holding the IoM up. Whoever is in charge of the Inq,if you did that, could just get his men to charge his political rivals with heresy, or out of spite halt production on product X if he controlled the Ad Mech.

you are right, it is really just a question of should we? I don't think we should eliminate the Inquisition. However and investigation by some Space marine super detective squad would be nice. I don't think that will happen.

The Inquisition watches itself. Please guys get copies of the Warhammer 40k rpg books and all knowledge of the Inquisition becomes clear.

I'd get them if I knew people willing to play them, I don't buy them otherwise (rpg books can get expensive if you don't use them).

Also, given that the AdMech are the guys maintaining the Astronomican AND the Golden Throne, I suspect that the Imperium is more than willing to overlook quite a few eccentricities.

While you might find loads of followers of the Imperial Creed all too willing to roast the AdMech as heretics and suffer the privations of technology loss, I don't think many of them would be willing to pull the plug on the Emperor to do so (excluding, of course, those who believe that he will be reborn when this happens).

When you add to this equation the Space Marine Chapters who have established warrior creeds which predate the Imperial Cult, you've got some very powerful organizations who believe one specific set of doctrines (Emperor is divine), allied with quite a lot of powerful organizations who don't necessarily subscribe to that belief (Omissiah is divine (or even a metaphor) and may not be the Emperor, Emperor is not divine). A substantial contingent of the Imperium of Man doesn't necessarily adhere to the Imperial Creed.

^well said, I didn't even know they were the ones fixing the Golden Throne, that's just one more reason to not cull the most vital organization in the galaxy.

Elector wrote:^well said, I didn't even know they were the ones fixing the Golden Throne, that's just one more reason to not cull the most vital organization in the galaxy.

They can't fix it. They don't know how.

Poor choice of words, how about "maintaining it"?

Elector wrote:Poor choice of words, how about "maintaining it"?

They pray to a 10,000 year old toilet with a 12ft skeleton on it. Yup, definitely maintenance work.

I don't think they only do prayer, they clean it, monitor it's performance, and do their best to repair it.