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Still not happy with using this hijacked thread about a local promo as the official Citedel Finecast thread. But oh well.

1.) Actually GW clearly said to staff, customers and retailers, that they will release a newsletter today for everyone, announcing the big changes concerning the rumoured metal to resin change. GW doesn't trust staff and retailers not to leak, so everyone gets the information at the same time.

2.) Actually, they didn't. They just revealed a name (Citadel Finecast), a release date (28th May) and a new announcement date (23rd May). They didn't even mention the word resin officially, maybe only in a few internal meetings within GW. This was not what GW staff and retailers were told, all expected a full announcement today. Guess Nottingham changed plans.

3.) Instead they officially announced a price hike of most introductory items like Codices, army books, 40k starter, battleforce boxes, paint station and several plastic boxes. Prices also rise in Germany, e.g. all Codices/army books by 3.25 € (including the Tomb King book released just 9 days ago!), Tau Battleforce by 15 €. The GW higher management in Nottingham must really hate this company, hoping that the shareholders and staff will only find out when it's too late (easy when every critic is instantly fired).

4.) I was really curious how they would explain the change from metal to some resin. Something like "Metal has become quite expensive, so we moved to resin to make the miniatures cheaper ... and demand even higher prices than before." Instead they said: "Hi, we have a new miniature line called Citadel Finecast released end of the month. Speaking of finely cast, have a look at this metal Chaos Warrior army."
Guess they are still working on how to explain the change and the price without revealing the truth. Tough job!

Guess the next annual report will reveal degrading revenue inspite 10% price raise, less customers, less sales and less hobby starters. And they will like the result.

George Spiggott wrote:So how's this going to affect Forgeworld? It's theoretically a double whammy for Forgeworld; unless they use GW (proper's) facilites to up their quality and lower their prices.

They got a C&D letter from GW, demanding to destroy all moulds

BTW the resin/plstik seems to be something like the Warmachine stuff, but chemically different. No idea about the practical characteristics.

Some more info:

Harry wrote:You know what is funny about that?
It IS a different colour.
(...)
There isn't going to be that much difference between time metal models and resin models made in the same moulds used for metal.
The difference will be seen in the new sculpts which have been sculpted with the new process, new material in mind. There is stuff they can do with this that they couldn't do with metal or plastic.
(...)

MrSatan wrote:Is this saying they ARE new sculpts??

Yes. quite a few.
This is only news here. GW has known about this for quite a while.

The box/blister will include a pic of the painted miniature.

forthegloryofkazadekrund on Warseer created the nice name Citadel Moneycast

Here the official poster posed by Archibald_TK over at Warsee, maybe including new miniaturesr:

The Decapitator wrote:Also I'm wondering what the 4th Dark Eldar model is on the right of the Succubus.
A Haemonculus??

We are discussing this in the Dark Eldar thread. First I thought it is just the Harlequin Troupe Master, but now I think it is indeed a Haemunculus with 4 arms, although very similar to the Troupe Master.
Also included are the two missing Tomb Lord characters (Nectotect and Scarab Prince).

Happygrunt wrote:Can someone link me to this price raise announcement? Because I am staring at the article and cant see anything about a price increase.

This official announcement was on Citadel Finecast only.
The other announcement was to retailers and reposted on page one and two of this thread.

Some more details from Warseer:

Asensur wrote:Premium stores meeting with GW at Spain comes back with a couple of news:

·Same minis, different moulds using master minis. New details in figures (Capellan on Jumpack, for example, has a new decor in bolter)

·More flexibility (Hyve Tyrant's sword didn't broke with a 90 degrees bend) and resistance (Astorath thrown from 1 meter high and didn't broke)

·Keeps beign resin, just a different resin than FW

·Packed like Avatars of War minis, with golden decor.

·Miniatures come in sprues, without free pieces.

·Limited stock at the beginning, 3 for reference and store.

This makes price's raising a little more comprehensive.

Tlotsqi wrote:From a french retailer (GW salesman call):
*GW definitely stop metal products, except for exceptionnal products.
*Finecast minis are dedicated to veterans so they recommend to sell plastic kits to yong players.
*minis will be sold in box like the plastic kits or transparent box with a pic of the painted mini and a view on the product.
*the sculpture keep the same quality.
*the resin is more resistant than the FW resin (example of a tyranid prince's sword that you can bend with a 90° angle without to break it.
*world official release may 28th.

Llew wrote:Mantic uses something we've taken to calling "restic" which is really pretty nice stuff. I miss not being able to use plastic glue on it, but it takes the super glue well and has good flexibility without being rubbery.

It must be something different though, because it's inexpensive. Mantic switched their metals to restic and basically doubled up on models at very nearly the same price point.

Clearly GW has found some superior way of doing things.

Inanimate wrote:So Tyranids are practically off-limits to younger/inexperienced modellers? Feels like they, along with Space Marines, would appeal the most to younger people.

As are all armies with an HQ in their force chart (except SM and CSM).

1.) There will be metal in mail order only for a while, but stock runs down of course.
2.) This Finecast uses the exact same moulds as metal, so that is not an issue.
3.) The Finecast will not be hazardous (as someone told me, can't verify that of course) and is free from the usual resin residue, so washing is optional, not compulsory.
4.) Finecast will need the usual flash removal and greenstuffing of gaps, but some models may be easier to assemble due to flexibility and reduced weight of the material.
5.) Finecast is not meant to be on display in every store, so getting an HQ or elite unit or Haemunculi army is a special service for some stores.

1.) Material is supposedly not hazardous as resin dust.
2.) It is lighter (doh).
3.) It is able to show finer and more crisp details.
4.) It is slightly flexible. This can make assembly easier o some models.
5.) Washing the model is optional, but not obligatory as with some resin.
6.) Plastic glue doesn't work, use super glue or 2art epoxy glue.
7.) There might be flash as in metal models, better cut it with a knife than file it, as filing might roughen the surface (not sure if that is a hidden hint that dust might be still hazardous, but ATM they say otherwise).

Sorry if this disrupts the off topic discussion

June will see the following Tomb King models as a Finecast release (thanks to Archibald_TK on Warseer for posting these):

Casket of Souls - 45.5€
Ushabti with Bows - 39€
Ushabti with GW - 39€
Tomb King with GW - 12.5€
Lich Priest - 12.5€
Necrotech - 12.5€
Prince Apophas - 15€

Tlotsqi over at Warseer also confirmed Haemunculus, Wracks (26€) and Grotesques (WD next week will show).

Another tidbit:

ghost21 wrote:

BramGaunt wrote:No, the new format fits the blister racks. No need to redesign. The new pack is only a little bigger than a blister, afaik, and the boxes fit with the other GW standart boxes aswell. As a matter of fact, I don't think the 5 man boxes will change on the outside at all, only the Citadel Finecast Logo will be somewhere. Probably all across it, on a second thought...

But even these blister "racks" will only be in stores until they are sold, then they go back to being direct only.

It's really hard to break through all this off-topic talk. Here another try, posted on Warseer by Vaiuri:

Apparently the move to resin is actually costing GW MORE than producing in plastic, hence the price rise. Spin, or truth, make of it what you will, but I believe the person who told me this.

Some other bits of info I've gleaned about the resin - some models will be single casts, think the current single metal blisters. Others will be on a sprue, Uruk-hai being the example I was given, these will be on sprues of 4 - again, explaining some of the price hike.

The resin being used is NOTHING like FW resin, no where near as much messing and cleaning up, plus no release agent, so you wont need to give your models a bath before you do anything with them.

The resin being used also reacts with superglue, so when you use the glue on the model it creates a super-strong bond. It also absorbs paint somewhat, meaning no chips - what this means in terms of stripping models I cannot say.

The resin IS supposed to be very robust, and any breakages can be easily fixed via super-glue (creating a super-strong bond as I mentioned earlier).

The models being recast are using the same masters, but the quality of the cast is supposed to be out of this world. I look forward to seeing it with my own eyes.

Expect a GW announcement on Monday.

First pics by The Death Angel over at Warseer:

yakface wrote:And GW have posted the finecast announcement:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=16700019a

HAZZER wrote:I've allready posted it:

Guys read this from GW.

Yep, you posted the link 2 hours after Yakface to be precise

Here a summary of how I think the future of the miniature range is planned by GW:

1.) This week, all GW stores send their metal miniatures, including blisters, boxes and hybrid kits, back to GW central to be sold as direct only. Non-GW stores don't have the option to send them back. Only stores that can get mail order only things (called Premium stores from now on) can get metal miniatures from now on.

2.) The most important current metal miniatures are recast in Finecast. GW stores and Premium stores can stock these from 28th May onward (not sure if limited supply, then direct order again, or permanent), currently limited to ordering 3 per blister/box due to global distribution limits. Everyone else can special order them, but not stock them.

3.) There will be no new metal models, these will be released as Finecast from now on, maybe as "limited supply", going to "direct only" after about 3 months. New Finecast models start in June (Dark Eldar and Tomb Kings). New models can exploit the new materials greater ability to show details.

4.) This will tear huge gaps in the miniature range, as essential HQs and elites of certain armies are not readily available in many stores, armies without a plastic HQ always require a special order from GW to field a legal army. Customers are asked to convert an HQ from plastic boxes.

Don't kill the messenger. I don't like it either.

Just wait for next month's Finecast release to prove their global superiority:

1.) The advantages of crisper resin will only come out with new moulds made for the new material. We will see.
2.) The flexibility can be a problem, if it is more flexible than the layer of paint. Paint might easily chip off. Haven't tested it yet on a real finecast model, we will see.
3.) FW resin can also be bend back with warm water, but it has a memory effect and slowly goes back to the original position. We will see.
4.) GW said that the new material passed official security tests and passed as needing no special care (e.g. no dust mask recommended).

GW Facebook entry wrote:"Also, chaps, we've spotted the odd comment about the safety of the resin. As with all our products, this has been vigorously checked. There are currently many formulations of resin used across the world. The resin material we are using for Citadel Finecast models has undergone testing by a leading international toy safety testing agency. They identified no risks to health and recommend no special precautions."

Kilkrazy wrote:People can say what they like (or hate) about GW, there is no way that GW would use a toxic material in products for sale to 12-year-olds.

... other than paints from China

But if too many "laymen" get pissed by the price hike, sales will drop again. As with every price hike in recent years. Total revenue is flat or declining for years.

Bullfrog wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:But if too many "laymen" get pissed by the price hike, sales will drop again. As with every price hike in recent years. Total revenue is flat or declining for years.

I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of the process but I'd imagine a flat margin/profit would be pretty attractive in the current climate, I certainly wish I had one.

Considering a 10% price increase per year, this translates into 10% less goods sold per year. For 5 years. No company can survive that very long.

baron deathnyx wrote:Ok so that doesn't mean GW is taking over all resin production from FW? because when GW remade the bane blade and the stompa all plastic it sold more than FW ever sold. and with GW making models in resin I think just gives another one up on FW. I can just see it now that in the future GW will be releasing a plastic/ resin nurgle dreadnaught.

You are aware that Forge World is a division of GW, right? That GW Finecast is a different material than FW resin? That FW uses different moulds and only makes small runs? That GW selling more Baneblades may have to do with it costing only a fraction and being readily available in hundreds of stores?

Przemas wrote:

insaniak wrote:
The reviews posted by people who have had them in had confirmed it pretty solidly.

I'm sceptical mostly because that sort of sprueing that's seen on the "leaked" pics does not make a lot of sense to me, no matter what sort of casting they have used (centrifugal, RIM, vacuum etc.) .
Will need to wait 2 days before I'll be able to decide what I think about those

I can confirm that the sprue pics are real.

Made a poll "If you have bought a Finecast model, was it a miscast?" to get a more objective picture of the abundance of miscasts:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/372324.page
Please take part only if you actually bought a Finecast model. It is not a poll on your opinion on Finecast.

Here a review by Total Wargamer http://www.totalwargamer.co.uk/blog/?p=1342 .

Comparison pic:







Issues with bubbles: Yes.
Proof that Finecast has sharper edges and smoother surface: Yes.

Stella Cadente wrote:

spaceelf wrote:

Vandil wrote:

puma713 wrote:

TBD wrote:
(I still wouldn't buy anything unseen though)

This makes me wonder about how the online market will be affected.

Some Chinese recasters wet dream just came true! I've gotten a few off ebay that are honestly hard to tell aren't legit.

Well actually it will be easy to spot the knockoffs, they will be the ones without the bubbles.

and the ones you can afford.

Sad but true: Chinese resin recasts of metal miniatures would have no quality issues like that AND be cheaper.

mechanicalhorizon over at Warseer found this nice pic:

Fun fact:
The June news poster for stores again boycotts all Finecast releases:
No Wracks, no Grotesque, no Haemunculus. And no word on any of the Tomb King releases. Of these only the Grotesques are mail order only. Stores are supposed to sell the other new models. Or maybe not. Weird (BTW the news poster only came a few days before the release).

insaniak wrote:The whole 'melting in the UK sun' thing is a deal breaker for me. If it's seriously that heat sensitive, there is no way it's going to stand up to sitting in a closed house all day in the Australia summer.

So GW boycotting all Southern customers actually is to protect them from inferior products that can't deal with the climate!
Maybe they switch to some more durable material ... like chocolate

As someone said: Miscasts are not the worst issue with Finecast:

rodmillard from Warseer wrote:It peaked at 29 degrees in Bath on Friday - according to a friend of my wife who was there, the minis in the finecash rack in the Bath GW (which is right by a south facing picture window, so would have been considerably hotter than the street temp.) had softened in their blisters to the point that ALL the detail on the back of the models had been crushed by their own packaging. Apparently they had to open all the blisters of certain models to try and find ones which hadn't been deformed by the "unseasonal" heat, and there weren't any.

Heat alone is not enough to do it, but once you subject the mini to both heat AND pressure they will warp and/or lose detail. Unfortunately, the model's own weight is sufficient pressure...

"What's in your cooler box?"
"grumble... Finecast Miniatures... grumble "

They should have taken a more robust material ... like chocolate (with extra gameplay function)

Sidstyler wrote:Is it possible that there was a mistake at GW and they didn't mix this material correctly or something, or is it supposed to be trash?

They found a resin mix noone has used before. Now they know why

... and then think how hot it can get in postal delivery cars.
The whole delivery chain to shops is compromised in summer.

LunaHound wrote:I havnt read what other posts you received in earlier pages.

Don't worry, I must also have missed BrassScorpion's polite post

BTW, the new GW policy is that only people involved in a project know about it. So expect more weirdnes in the future.
Recent highlight: Price rise for Tomb King army book a week after release
Or denying any Finecast release (Wracks, Grotesque, Haemunculus, all Tomb King stuff) for June on the news poster

Also:
Finecast doesn't melt at 28 C: The outdoor temperature was that, right behind the store's window, the rack heated up a bit more. Still troublesome, as cars including all postal delivery cars get that hot easily during summer.

Rymafyr wrote:Well, I suppose its time to ask this thread to be moved to discussions as there isn't much news or rumor at this point in the thread. So if things had to be summed up, what can be said for both Pros and Cons regarding finecast miniatures?

Cons:
1. Product is too expensive regardless of the benefits.
2. Product is too susceptible to heat, deforming in display windows and in transport cases.
3. Product longevity is questionable. How long will it be before a model would need replacing?

Pros:
1. Product is easy to work with; cutting and shaping is a breeze.
2. Product is lightweight.
3. Product has slightly sharper detail.

Erm, I guess you missed 60-70% of the posts in this thread, all talking about miscasts