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One of my friends just called with a question. Can a single Drednaught launch a multi assault into two units of they were close enough?

I would say no because the rules state closest to closest and that the second model in a unit launches the assault into the other squad. However what if they base was large enough and the models close enough that they were touched when a closest to closest assault was initiated? There is nothing mentioned about this. Any rules or lines that clarify that I might have missed or interpretations are welcome.

Ignoring the fact that it's physically impossible for a one-model unit on a round base to charge 2 units, as you noted the rules don't allow it either. The answer's a "no".

Just to play devil's advocate, it is not at all physically impossible for one model to charge two units. It is very possible for a base as large as a dreadnought's base to be maneuvered in such a way that it touches the bases of models from two separate units that are standing next to each other.

However, the assault rules do say that the first model must move in the shortest line possible to get into b2b with the unit that it's assaulting, so no, you cannot multi assault with one model.

It's possible, just not likely.

There's arrangements that would allow it.

DarknessEternal wrote:It's possible, just not likely.

There's arrangements that would allow it.

It's not possible at all.

You have to declare an assault against a single enemy unit. You have to move into base contact with that unit without moving into base contact with any model from a unit that you are not assaulting.

The only way a multi assault is possible is for a second or subsequent model from your unit to move into contact with the second unit. Which, obviously, isn't possible when your unit consists of a single model.


Single model units can not assault multiple enemy units in the current ruleset.

Actually, Insaniak, it IS possible.

It is NOT possible if you play by the rules, which I explicitly stated in the second part of my post, but as I also explicitly mentioned, I was replying to the point that it was physically impossible to charge two units with one model on a round base. It is indeed PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE to do that. It is not LEGAL to do that. There is indeed a difference. Read for context before you attempt to tell me how wrong my post is.

Starting the post though, with an affirmative means people reach the same conclusion as Insaniak which can be deceptive.

Darkjediben wrote:Actually, Insaniak, it IS possible.

It is NOT possible if you play by the rules, which I explicitly stated in the second part of my post, but as I also explicitly mentioned, I was replying to the point that it was physically impossible to charge two units with one model on a round base. It is indeed PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE to do that. It is not LEGAL to do that. There is indeed a difference. Read for context before you attempt to tell me how wrong my post is.

2 things:

1 - My post was very clearly in response to DarknessEternal, not you, as was evidenced by the quoted part of my response.
and
2 - I ignored your post, as your answer was pointless. Whether or not it's physically possible means absolutely nothing in a discussion of the rules of the game.

Haha it didn't seem that clear to me, since I responded to it, I legitimately thought it was in response to me, so sorry bout that.

insaniak wrote:
You have to move into base contact with that unit without moving into base contact with any model from a unit that you are not assaulting.

Where does the rules say this, the "without" part?

DarknessEternal wrote:

insaniak wrote:
You have to move into base contact with that unit without moving into base contact with any model from a unit that you are not assaulting.

Where does the rules say this, the "without" part?

Page 34, column one, paragraph two, the sentence that takes up the last half of the paragraph.

The last two lines of that paragraph are the specific reminder that the exclusion is still in effect.

Yup. It's physically possible to get a round (or oblong, for certain models, or weird shapes, for Defilers) object into contact with multple bases at once, if they're positioned just right.

But it's not legal to do so, as the paragraph on assaulting multiple units only allows it if you have more than one model in the assaulting unit.

Perhaps I should've mentioned that it's impossible to do because you have to move the shortest distance possible? It obviously could work if we're ignoring the rules.

The situation I was in (I was the caller the OP was referring to) made it possible, just not legal (as I found out). It was two large squads of Gaunts, that were seperated in a "U" formation conga line.

I was charging with a single Furioso Dreadnaught on a large base, that was 1" away, and I had my movement phase to position for it. By charging closest to closest to one squad, I was physically touching a model from each squad with my giant base.

So while it is not legal, it was physically possible, hence my question.

Apparently if the shortest route would take one model into contact with two units, you aren't allowed to assault then.

DarknessEternal wrote:Apparently if the shortest route would take one model into contact with two units, you aren't allowed to assault then.

You move by the shortest 'possible' route, not the shortest straight line distance. If the shortest distance would take the model into contact with two units, that route is not the 'shortest possible route'... so you move in a slightly different direction that gets it into contact without touching the other unit.

insaniak wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:Apparently if the shortest route would take one model into contact with two units, you aren't allowed to assault then.

You move by the shortest 'possible' route, not the shortest straight line distance. If the shortest distance would take the model into contact with two units, that route is not the 'shortest possible route'... so you move in a slightly different direction that gets it into contact without touching the other unit.

What if your base is so big (as a better example, a large 6 wound Tyranid base) that you literally touch two squads when taking the shortest possible route.

It makes logistic sense, it just isn't legal.

Magnalon wrote:

insaniak wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:Apparently if the shortest route would take one model into contact with two units, you aren't allowed to assault then.

You move by the shortest 'possible' route, not the shortest straight line distance. If the shortest distance would take the model into contact with two units, that route is not the 'shortest possible route'... so you move in a slightly different direction that gets it into contact without touching the other unit.

What if your base is so big (as a better example, a large 6 wound Tyranid base) that you literally touch two squads when taking the shortest possible route.

It makes logistic sense, it just isn't legal.

That's what I was refering to when I said that it's physically impossible. If you've got a round base and you're forced to take the shortest route you won't ever end up in base contact with 2 units unless you were already in contact at the start of the turn.

Magnalon wrote:What if your base is so big (as a better example, a large 6 wound Tyranid base) that you literally touch two squads when taking the shortest possible route.

The you refer to what I just said: That's not the shortest possible route, because it's illegal for you to move there. The shortest possible route is one that doesn't wind up with you in contact with the second unit.

single models can not multi-charge.

insaniak wrote:

Magnalon wrote:What if your base is so big (as a better example, a large 6 wound Tyranid base) that you literally touch two squads when taking the shortest possible route.

The you refer to what I just said: That's not the shortest possible route, because it's illegal for you to move there. The shortest possible route is one that doesn't wind up with you in contact with the second unit.

So you are stating that if the "shortest" possible route that prevents the model from touching two separate units is more than 6" it can not assault?

That is correct

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

That's what I was refering to when I said that it's physically impossible. If you've got a round base and you're forced to take the shortest route you won't ever end up in base contact with 2 units unless you were already in contact at the start of the turn.

Impossible? Hardly.

Take 3 models, one of which will be your charging guy. Place the charging guy on the table, now place the other two touching him and touching each other. Now move the charging guy directly away from one of them.

After taking the shortest route back in (we're just rewinding that last step), he'd be touching 2 units. This is apparently illegal, although possible.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

insaniak wrote:

Magnalon wrote:What if your base is so big (as a better example, a large 6 wound Tyranid base) that you literally touch two squads when taking the shortest possible route.

The you refer to what I just said: That's not the shortest possible route, because it's illegal for you to move there. The shortest possible route is one that doesn't wind up with you in contact with the second unit.

Shortest possible route is not up for debate. Those always will be straight lines with a definite length on our 2D table.

Not "apparently" at all - it really IS illegal

It is also highly improbable for this situation to occur. Not impossible.

negativeeee

jbunny wrote:So you are stating that if the "shortest" possible route that prevents the model from touching two separate units is more than 6" it can not assault?

Yes, of course. If the model's movement is not sufficient to get it into base contact, no assault happens.

DarknessEternal wrote:Shortest possible route is not up for debate. Those always will be straight lines with a definite length on our 2D table.

The shortest possible route is not always a straight line. Any time there is an impassable obstacle between assaulter and assaultee, the shortest possible route will be around it.

Exactly.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Not "apparently" at all - it really IS illegal

It is also highly improbable for this situation to occur. Not impossible.

It might come up more than you think. A model could be forced to fall back during the opponents assault phase after being in base to base with 2 units, or one unit with an attached IC which counts as 2 units in CC. Those units roll to consolidate and move as close to the model that is falling back. The fall back guy regroups, moves forwards and assaults the 2 units hes was in base to base with the previous assault phase. If everybody moved exactly as they should, the model would then be all lined up to assault both units or the one unit with an IC. Seems more likely to happen on a computer than in real life. Although I suppose the consolidating units which won the combat do not have to move, let's say they were guarding an objective.

Another easier way is would be say that a model is looking at to different units in front of it. The one on the left is closer than the one on the right. It shoots the farther back one on the right, which it than has to assault. Depending on how the rule was written, it'd be potentially walking around the closer unit to assault the farther back unit. Does it say in the rulebook that a unit must stay at least 1" away from other units during the assault phase?

If so you could end up with a unit an 1" in front and 3" to either side of you preventing you from assaulting the unit you shot at that is only 4" away but behind the blocking unit. Grot screens and such.

DarknessEternal wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

That's what I was refering to when I said that it's physically impossible. If you've got a round base and you're forced to take the shortest route you won't ever end up in base contact with 2 units unless you were already in contact at the start of the turn.

Impossible? Hardly.

Take 3 models, one of which will be your charging guy. Place the charging guy on the table, now place the other two touching him and touching each other. Now move the charging guy directly away from one of them.

After taking the shortest route back in (we're just rewinding that last step), he'd be touching 2 units. This is apparently illegal, although possible.

Meh, guess I'm wrong then. I could've sworn that I saw someone post an image somewhere that explained it somehow. But yes, it's illegal.

PipeAlley - ICs are only separate units when you resolve attacks.

It is HIGHLY improbable that, when you move your distance "back" that yuo will be able to have moved *exactly* as required to end up an identical distance from 2 models. Humans are not that precise.