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ok i find that most tau players are off track for what it is we want
first there are some things we need as tau no ifs ands or buts

BS4 across the board - we are a genetically engineered race of shooters yet we cant aim

Fearless drones - drones that flee make 0 sense

unlimited range on ML or at least really long range - H1 weapon that serves to grant a buff sounds pretty gakky especially at 36"

Improved power to rail rifles - other races have snipers, we have a god damn railgun sniper, make that mean something

Ordanance weapons of some kind

points drop

now onto the stuff i think we should focus on more

Options - the tau are a race whose technology advances faster then any other race in the universe. we should have an abundance of technology allowing us to circumvent the rules of the game and play our way. IG is thee shooty race, eldar the fast one, we need to be the tricky one.
our codex should focus on us having a ridiculous amount of options for a decent points cost.
tau lists should light up the screen with acronyms for options
we should be able to run super suits with 3 weapons and 20 different options

imagine this

3x crisis suits (stormcharge)
TA
TL
TL FB
Burst pack(makes initial 6" movement phase 12" while still allowing assualt 6 move)
Vector engines(allow once per game 3" movement to avoid assault)
Flechete grenade launchers

or

12x FW pulse rifles, flechette grenades, bonding knife

3x piranahs Flechette launchers, 2x heay weapons drones, CIB (have scout special rule)

also marker lights need a drastic change
a single markerlight may be used to do the following
1 target an enemy unit
2 target a spot on the feild
hits can then be used to do the following
-fire a seeker missile/missilse(if in squadron)
-increase weapon range 6"( not stackable)
-mark hidden unit for all units to see
-negate the effects of stealth special rule
-negate the effects of saves for fast moving vehicles
-allow special characters to be targeted seperately
-allow units to deepstrike andreduce scatter to avoid mishap
-make any weapon pinning
-make any weapon rending

things i want personally but are not a must for tau

neuron blasters are template weapons
all railguns choose either LOS s10 ap1 multi penetrating shot or large blast
Ion cannons replaced by
Plasma launcher
S8 ap2 heavy 2 blast ordanance barrage
fusion cannon
24" s9 ap1 melta heavy 2

all vehicles and broadsides secondary wepons may be
TL burst cannons
sms
TL PR
TL hyper burst cannons (6x s6 ap4)


I want the tau to be the army you think about when you face it
old tactics will not work
our advanced technology will subvert your regular methods and throw you off balance
every tourney list should go well ok what if i face tau

Mate. some of this stuff borders on insane. I kinda agree with your first comment because it seems to me that half the players on dakka play tau to win with jam or die.

you dont need to make up new weapions. hyper burst cannon???

I politly sergest that you look at some older threads such as this one http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/326557.page

First off. I actually like the codex the way it is however I do agree there need to be some tweeks but what army doesn't have the useless units that don't mean a thing.

BS 4. Tau are fine with Bs 3 and Markerlights are there to help. BS4 is a little OP for S5 AP5 weapons double tapping.

Fearless drones: makes a bit of sense however have to point out that necrons aren't fearless. why should drones then.

Unlimited range on ML. Maybe but it is okay as is. also the heavy is easily explainble by the fact that it requires a little concentration to aim a beam and hold it on a target.

Ordnance weapons of some kind. railguns especially the Tl ones on broadsides.

Points drop. I agree with this on some aspects however others such as FW are good at 10

The whole point of tau is to be Strategical You learn that with time and you get better. Winging is not helping other tau players.

It would be nice to have the Shas'ui for free, instead of having to buy him as an upgrade, though.

I'm fine with Fire Warriors and Pathfinders being BS 3, but I think suits ought to be BS 4 - they are, after all, veterans who have served for four years and passed at least one Trial by Fire. If memory serves, IG veterans are veterans simply for surviving one campaign without dying.

However, if I had to pick between BS 4 and lower points cost, I'd take lower points costs on our units. More markerlights in the army would be good.

Another nice thing to have would be means of escaping close combat. XV-9 Hazard Armour has an interesting implementation with their modified Vectored Retro-Thrusters.

Stealthsuits definitely need some kind of boost to make them compete with Crisis suits in the Elite slot - giving them cheap markerlights would be a good start.

ugh i dont get why tau players are so fussy

"dont give us non fluff units but dont make our fluff units make acctual sense"

"its ok to have a main useless troop choice"

"i dont want anything new"

pony up and admit that something new would be nice

" the whole point is to be strategical"
go home
unless you are some chuck norris demi god of warhammer who plays tau for a challenge this statement is unnecesary
i know how to win
im just explaining how id like to win
I dont like how 5th ed codecies seem to have much more options then i do in terms of strategy
i dont like how an advanced race seems limited
i dont like how we get out classed in shooting by a race who is better in cc and cheaper

Because we're a 4th Ed army and most stuff is designed to work well in that!

Remember when FoF and JSJ worked so much that some players would simply not play against you?

(This happened to me, honestly! They didn't agree with so much shooting and not being able to shoot back)

The main things I would change is to make ALL Elites BS4. These guys have advanced targeting systems and computers in their suits yet hit the same as a Firewarrior? What the toss is all that about seriously. Or drop points on Target Arrays. 5 points.

I don't want us to be epic in CC either. We are fine as we are. Kroot are brilliant for their points and can actually do some good damage with Hounds.

Get rid of Vespids or change them massively. At the moment they are crap.

Sniper Teams - make them ignore cover as the round is THAT fast it tears through it. At the moment they are good at keeping stuff away from a certain area but other than that...weak. Maybe auto-pin? :-D hehe

Hmm - other units I am happy with and can work with. A few price reductions to keep in line with current codexs and we are fine!

no we need more then just minor tweeks
we need a whole lot of new

as for firewarrior bs being low theres allot of units in 40k that are outclassed by basic units in BS
as for fluff id say that the fact that oyu must pilot a suit makes it difficult but tech compensates therefore its the same as firewarriors
i say again regardless of suit/soldier difference no fire caste member should ever be below bs4 make suits bs5 for all i care
but a race of shoot only specially bread soldiers shouldn't shoot at a rate comprable to any other army

Tau are a shoot only army but we cant match the amount of firepower IG can bring. therefore we need to become the more effective fire army
TAU SHOULD BE THE PREIMIER SOF ARMY
however we arent effective enough to trust single shots because we have a 3 bs all around

the tau need a major facelift
i simply argue our new face should be comprised of an options based high power shooty army with a crazy amount of unique abilites

If you want to always beat the crap out of your opponent then tau as they are are not for you. Its no use raging about it.

What ever gw does to tau you can bet that tau are going to get a better strong cc unit.

Nids used to be all cc and now they have guard blowing up stuff from ages away. tau (which were their compleate oposite) go in the other direction.

Tau only live for 40-60 years. they dont have nearly enough training time to get bs4. sm have extra organs that let them see better and train for years!
they could only get it from being super skilled like a commander for balance or by the tech in their suits. The upgrades called a targeting array. +1 bs

you can speculate what will be in the next codex but wishlisting just looks noobish.

vets have bs4
and im not complaining about winning guys
im complaining about how we win and how we seem to be locked in the mindset that we cannot change

Ledabot wrote:Tau only live for 40-60 years. they dont have nearly enough training time to get bs4. sm have extra organs that let them see better and train for years!
they could only get it from being super skilled like a commander for balance or by the tech in their suits. The upgrades called a targeting array. +1 bs

Guard veterans are not Space Marines, but they have BS 4. Is the life expectancy of a Guardsman significantly higher than that of a Fire Caste warrior? How does their equipment stack up to a Tau warrior's? I think the combination of four years of experience on the battlefield and the advanced sensory equipment in battlesuits (they all have Acute Senses, after all) should contribute to a higher BS. Targeting Arrays are nice, but they also cost a hardpoint, which means you lose the ability to shoot two weapons in one turn unless you take a hardwired system on your team leader.

LoneGamer wrote:

Ledabot wrote:Tau only live for 40-60 years. they dont have nearly enough training time to get bs4. sm have extra organs that let them see better and train for years!
they could only get it from being super skilled like a commander for balance or by the tech in their suits. The upgrades called a targeting array. +1 bs

Guard veterans are not Space Marines, but they have BS 4. Is the life expectancy of a Guardsman significantly higher than that of a Fire Caste warrior? How does their equipment stack up to a Tau warrior's? I think the combination of four years of experience on the battlefield and the advanced sensory equipment in battlesuits (they all have Acute Senses, after all) should contribute to a higher BS. Targeting Arrays are nice, but they also cost a hardpoint, which means you lose the ability to shoot two weapons in one turn unless you take a hardwired system on your team leader.

I conceade

heres an idea
let the shootiest race have bs4 base bs5 for its really good things and bs 6 for its heros
then give us some fancy tech to play around with and have a unique style of play

you want your game to be fun and diverse and you want people to buy models
then create armies that dont support mono builds
even in the fluff tau have 2 specific ways of war
build the codex to have options that support this philosophy

all i ever hear is we just want the same army but make it cheaper
to be honest i dont know where you spend your points
i build 2000pt lists and go hmm
i have nothing to fill
i spend my last 100 pts on sheild drones
sure i have 2 tropp slots left but damn
4 broadsides
2 shasel
6 crisis
4 piranahs
4 FW squads
and a hammerhead
any more room for points and i feel like id be wasting them because the limits on tech means i can upgrade to a very limited point

I can see it is useless argueing with you however one more shot.

Are you really that determined to beat your opponents hands down. well choose another army because there are heaps, however Tau is different and both me and many other players like that. The game is not solely about winning and if you are that concerned about it I wouldn't play you, ever. I would also recomend other players not to be like this. wishlisting and whinging about your army because you can not do anything about it except whine. Wait your turn and then once again you whine. The universe does not revolve around your codex.

Secondly wait until the update before you go declaring how your uber codex should be. For all you know they could be changing it in any number of ways.

Still whinging about the codex. well either switch armies or create some detailed, reasonable suggestions that are unique.

And with this, just like ledabot, I take my leave.

im not asking for an overpowered codex
im not even complaining about my current codex
im complaining about what tau players keep asking for in the new one
i agree that GW is going to change tau in many ways and want that
what i dont want is the SAME codex just cheaper
I dont want an IG codex and thats all i see

here the majority of tau codex wishes i see
make things cheaper
make vespids not suck
let me take heavy weapons in FW squads
anything but a CC unit
Markerlights on FWs

i understand that people dont like wishlisting but when this is the limit of our imagination its frustrating

Ledabot wrote:If you want to always beat the crap out of your opponent then tau as they are are not for you. Its no use raging about it.

What ever gw does to tau you can bet that tau are going to get a better strong cc unit.

Nids used to be all cc and now they have guard blowing up stuff from ages away. tau (which were their compleate oposite) go in the other direction.

Tau only live for 40-60 years. they dont have nearly enough training time to get bs4. sm have extra organs that let them see better and train for years!
they could only get it from being super skilled like a commander for balance or by the tech in their suits. The upgrades called a targeting array. +1 bs

you can speculate what will be in the next codex but wishlisting just looks noobish.

Of course, each of the Tau sects is supposedly genetically geared to meet their tasks (air caste, for instance, can 'fly' and are adapted to handle Gees better, the Fire Caste is supposed to be genetically adapted to shooting things). I would agree that Firewarriors don't need to be BS4, but there is 0 good reason that all the suits shouldn't be BS4, with Shas'el's being BS 5, and Shas'o's being BS 6, and letting them buy the TA to go up to even BS 7. Let the shooty race shoot darnit.


His original wish list is going a bit nuts, but some general price drops, some new units (such as allowing Gue'vesa who can take HW, XV9s in the Codex, a Crisis/Stealth Wing, some new aliens, such as Demiurg that work like Enginseers or Techmarines but better on repairs maybe...), Fearless drones (given they are programed to die for their masters...), and better BS skill suits isn't OP, doesn't break the Tau mold, and would go a long way towards changing things.

Marker lights, as they are, still suck. They are better then they were in 3rd Ed (where they were a total waste of an action), but they still suck. You still only have a BS of 3 on these units, so you need a 4+ to make something else a 3+ or 2+. Why in the heck do we have to waste points to shoot twice? IF the counters lasted all round (so all models in the army could get the bonus) and you could either split up the fire (so you could tag all kinds of things) or go straight to BS 5 and reduce cover quicker then you might have something. At the end of the day you'd still have to spend 48 points pllus another 85 to do this, which is silly.

Maniac_nmt wrote:

Ledabot wrote:If you want to always beat the crap out of your opponent then tau as they are are not for you. Its no use raging about it.

What ever gw does to tau you can bet that tau are going to get a better strong cc unit.

Nids used to be all cc and now they have guard blowing up stuff from ages away. tau (which were their compleate oposite) go in the other direction.

Tau only live for 40-60 years. they dont have nearly enough training time to get bs4. sm have extra organs that let them see better and train for years!
they could only get it from being super skilled like a commander for balance or by the tech in their suits. The upgrades called a targeting array. +1 bs

you can speculate what will be in the next codex but wishlisting just looks noobish.

Of course, each of the Tau sects is supposedly genetically geared to meet their tasks (air caste, for instance, can 'fly' and are adapted to handle Gees better, the Fire Caste is supposed to be genetically adapted to shooting things). I would agree that Firewarriors don't need to be BS4, but there is 0 good reason that all the suits shouldn't be BS4, with Shas'el's being BS 5, and Shas'o's being BS 6, and letting them buy the TA to go up to even BS 7. Let the shooty race shoot darnit.


His original wish list is going a bit nuts, but some general price drops, some new units (such as allowing Gue'vesa who can take HW, XV9s in the Codex, a Crisis/Stealth Wing, some new aliens, such as Demiurg that work like Enginseers or Techmarines but better on repairs maybe...), Fearless drones (given they are programed to die for their masters...), and better BS skill suits isn't OP, doesn't break the Tau mold, and would go a long way towards changing things.

Marker lights, as they are, still suck. They are better then they were in 3rd Ed (where they were a total waste of an action), but they still suck. You still only have a BS of 3 on these units, so you need a 4+ to make something else a 3+ or 2+. Why in the heck do we have to waste points to shoot twice? IF the counters lasted all round (so all models in the army could get the bonus) and you could either split up the fire (so you could tag all kinds of things) or go straight to BS 5 and reduce cover quicker then you might have something. At the end of the day you'd still have to spend 48 points pllus another 85 to do this, which is silly.

sorry. I do think that shas'ui and above should be better. the basic guys shold have a limit of 3 though. they do have basic targeting systems but a targeting array improves on this. In built targeting arrays should be standed with commmanders i would think.

Ledabot wrote:

Maniac_nmt wrote:

Ledabot wrote:If you want to always beat the crap out of your opponent then tau as they are are not for you. Its no use raging about it.

What ever gw does to tau you can bet that tau are going to get a better strong cc unit.

Nids used to be all cc and now they have guard blowing up stuff from ages away. tau (which were their compleate oposite) go in the other direction.

Tau only live for 40-60 years. they dont have nearly enough training time to get bs4. sm have extra organs that let them see better and train for years!
they could only get it from being super skilled like a commander for balance or by the tech in their suits. The upgrades called a targeting array. +1 bs

you can speculate what will be in the next codex but wishlisting just looks noobish.

Of course, each of the Tau sects is supposedly genetically geared to meet their tasks (air caste, for instance, can 'fly' and are adapted to handle Gees better, the Fire Caste is supposed to be genetically adapted to shooting things). I would agree that Firewarriors don't need to be BS4, but there is 0 good reason that all the suits shouldn't be BS4, with Shas'el's being BS 5, and Shas'o's being BS 6, and letting them buy the TA to go up to even BS 7. Let the shooty race shoot darnit.


His original wish list is going a bit nuts, but some general price drops, some new units (such as allowing Gue'vesa who can take HW, XV9s in the Codex, a Crisis/Stealth Wing, some new aliens, such as Demiurg that work like Enginseers or Techmarines but better on repairs maybe...), Fearless drones (given they are programed to die for their masters...), and better BS skill suits isn't OP, doesn't break the Tau mold, and would go a long way towards changing things.

Marker lights, as they are, still suck. They are better then they were in 3rd Ed (where they were a total waste of an action), but they still suck. You still only have a BS of 3 on these units, so you need a 4+ to make something else a 3+ or 2+. Why in the heck do we have to waste points to shoot twice? IF the counters lasted all round (so all models in the army could get the bonus) and you could either split up the fire (so you could tag all kinds of things) or go straight to BS 5 and reduce cover quicker then you might have something. At the end of the day you'd still have to spend 48 points pllus another 85 to do this, which is silly.

sorry. I do think that shas'ui and above should be better. the basic guys shold have a limit of 3 though. they do have basic targeting systems but a targeting array improves on this. In built targeting arrays should be standed with commmanders i would think.

Which basically agrees with me, all suits are Shas'ui and above.

Evaelc wrote:
BS 4. Tau are fine with Bs 3 and Markerlights are there to help. BS4 is a little OP for S5 AP5 weapons double tapping.

Ah, you mean like how Grey Knights can?

I think Firewarriors should be BS3, but everything in a suit should be BS4. Shas'Els and above should be BS 5 (or better). That way, marker lights are still useful, but are focused more on removing cover, maybe instead of raising BS allowing units shooting at the target to count as being twinlinked (getting a second re-roll if the weapons are already twinlinked).

I want Kroot to be base initiative 4, with assault grenades and Stealth and Move through Cover USRs representing "field craft". Shaper upgrades to allow rending attacks, furious charge, Inflitrate, hardened skin (5+ save), relentless and feel no pain (my friends have let me do a table roll similar to the Possessed Chaos Space marines-or more accurately the GK Jokero Weaponsmiths. Roll 2d6 and get any 2. Repeats get rerolled Applies for All Kroot for simplicity's sake). Their guns are still Rapid Fire, so they are either campers-or last ditch assaulters unless you get relentless. I like the 0-2 suggested.

Vespid should have rending attacks, sync up with markerlights to allow pinpoint deepstrike. They should have at Tau equivalent of "Heroic Intervention" and should have the exact same stats and pointcost, but their weapons should be R12" A1 s5 ap3 or R12" A2 s5 ap-* (ignores cover) and they should have rending close combat attacks and emp grenades.

Stealth Suits should be allowed (because of being a smaller mass class) to deep strike and retain their assault move. Should be given Stealth USR with Stealth Field Generator.

Markerlight hits can generate pinpoint deep strike within 6 inches of a hit target (only with vespid)

Don't think the Guevesa really fill a niche that Kroot or Firewarriors couldn't do better.

Suits are fine as is, though maybe increase to toughness 5 to crap on Missile Launcher spam. I know that's supposed to be the domain of the XV9, but I'm not too impressed with the 'dukes of hazzard suits'. If hazard suits are included at all, they should definately be extreme short range and high volume of shots, and 0-1 unit choices.

I think if they keep Farsight, all Crisis Suits should have the Shas'Vre statline (at BS4) with the option for a "close combat weapon" attachment for the suit that grants rending attacks and furious charge-only for Farsight armies. Maybe 4 man teams (again, for Farsight)

Fletchett discharger drones at Marker Drone costs. As standard flechette dischargers, but before assault dice are rolled-kills go towards combat score, counts as assault grenades in assault (but not as fletchett discharger. It only counts as a fletchett discharger when the unit that has them is being assaulted). Its expensive-and it adds a layer of protection. For those players who have assault armies, it's their problem to get into close combat with us. If we're willing to pay the points to have 'deterrents' for close combat centric armies-then that's sad for them as Vegeta would say.

All of this is moot anyways, because they'll just missile launcher us off the table. I'm paying premium points for a 1 wound suit with a 4+ save (crisis suit with a cover save from a missile launcher). Atleast they can't do that to my Grey Knights (mostly terminator army)

why can a race who uses guns originally meant to fire slugs aim as good as a bred to shoot soldier
dont give me well suits should be bs 4 not FW because vehicles and their almighty technology are bs3 in allot of races
tau vehicles need special equipment for bs4 in a vehicle so why should a suit be bs4 just because its a machine
Fire warriors are all about the gun and when they prove themselves on the feild they show they are capable of piloting a suit( much harder then being on foot)
many times these suits fire at multiple targets with multiple weapons not to mention in the freaking air
so the question is guy should a guy standing on the ground have worse aim then the guy hovering in the air firing tons of weapons all over?
if your answer is yes because of technology its called a targeting array
without it theres no reason why suits and fw should have a difference in aim
We both agree suits should be BS4
I simply claim FW should to and the suits should have the option for BS5
dire avengers get bs4 so should we

As the most gun based army in the entire game it is a sham that we have average aim. Everyone claims FW suck. i hate how there a +1. But oh god dont give them better aim!



ok 6 troop choices filled with the shootiest race on the earth need a bunch of laser pointers to increase there aim above the basic level of anything in the game
i dont like that
i dont think markerlights should be used to do something as meaningless as increase aim

reduce cover - ok
reduce leadership - nice but stupid
fire seeker missles - sounds awesome but the missles arent so good
mark hard to hit targets(fast vehicles) - makes sense
mark hidden units - that makes sense
avoid night rules - works except when you are never close enough for a good night fire result to hit
reduce scatter on deepstrike - just sensible

imagine if the pathfinder becomes a real scouting unit whose purpose it is to mark and target valuble and difficult things to deal with and assist the army in doing so. Not by increasing aim but by decreasing the effectiveness of other things that work in the armies favor

docbrown wrote:
i dont like that
i dont think markerlights should be used to do something as meaningless as increase aim

So, there are no "ifs, ands, or buts" around your suggestions, because they're based on things you don't like?

Pardon me, but between that and your spelling and grammar, you're not making a very strong case.

A grammar is of little care at this hour but apologies anyway
B stop side stepping. You know exactly what i mean when i say i dont like the idea of that. You know i dont find it accurate or sensible in any way. By focusing on that rather then the whole statement you just try to ignore everything i say.
C do i have to say this every time. I am not looking for GW to come and go oh ok then heres your codex. I want tau players to stop asking for absolutely nothing in their codex.

"I want Kroot to be base initiative 4, with assault grenades and Stealth and Move through Cover USRs representing "field craft". Shaper upgrades to allow rending attacks, furious charge, Inflitrate, hardened skin (5+ save), relentless and feel no pain (my friends have let me do a table roll similar to the Possessed Chaos Space marines-or more accurately the GK Jokero Weaponsmiths. Roll 2d6 and get any 2. Repeats get rerolled Applies for All Kroot for simplicity's sake). Their guns are still Rapid Fire, so they are either campers-or last ditch assaulters unless you get relentless. I like the 0-2 suggested. "

"Markerlight hits can generate pinpoint deep strike within 6 inches of a hit target (only with vespid) "

these are what i want
ideas with imagination
things that are unique
not bland we dont want anything type suggestions
why is it insane to ask for bs4 FW but ok to ask for rending claws on vepid or fleschettes on suits
what is so bad about a FW that can aim
why can tau players never ask for anything

docbrown wrote:why can tau players never ask for anything

Look through the forums and tell me there is not a whole heap of topics on Tau wishlisting. Also I can't understand other bits of your arguement however I will go as far to say that you not only speak gibberish but you have missed the main picture of markelights.

i dont think markerlights should be used to do something as meaningless as increase aim

I'm sorry, did you want lazer beams instead that blow up with some ginormous explosion. what did you think they should be used for? When you have tracking beams that is kind of what they are supposed to do, increase accuracy. Excuse me if I don't think they should be ordnance.

I want to see the cool models that the Tau have make sense to play. Sky Rays, Vespids etc. I won't even suggest how but make them worth playing.

Markerlights define the flavor of Tau and suggest the firepower they need. I have - in other posts suggested free cost, lowered cost and persistent (for the turn) markerlights. Make seeker missiles persistent i.e. not 10 points for a 1 shot weapon that requires something else to hit the target first.

Increase the ROF of Carbines to 2 I don't even care if you remove the pinning (which is 90% worthless anyways) increase the burst cannon ROF to 4. That might actually make stealth suits worthwhile. Either decrease the cost of firewarriors or increast their BS. I don't mind either but is is telling that 12 FW cost 120 points to get an average of 6 S5 hits out to 30" while a long fang unit costs 115 and get an average of 10 S5 hits out to 36". Now we all know that HB are not the best choice but if a poor second choice for a SM is better than the core shooting unit of a shooty army and costs less something is out of whack.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I will propose one radical - pulse rifle 30" heavy 2. Pulse carbine 18" assault 2. Lose the rapid fire and suicidal mobility - (who cares if the FW moves to within 12" to get off a rapid fire - it ain't going to matter since the next turn the FW are going to get charged.)

I would have to agree with you. vespids and skyrays are both epic looking and useless so they should make them better otherwise people will just be usess them for bitz or something to paint.

I would also agree with what you say about burst cannons as stealth teams are are useless with shortranged weapons so they need to either up the range or up the fire.

I do think they need to drop the costs of FW but they could also improve the ethereals which are cc based yet useless. If they were to drop the cost of FW then honour gaurds would be a viable choice if etherals were good as well.

FireWarriors are fine at BS3. Sure, they could probably use a point cost reduction to maybe 8 points a model, and a built in Shas'ui. Anything in a suit should be BS4, which would greatly help the Tau. Making markerlights an assault weapon would also prove beneficial.

There is no need to 'demand' radical and outrageous ideas for the Tau. Much of their lack of competitveness is also due to units being overcosted in comparison to new armies. A devilfish is base 80 pts, knocking that down to 70 or 60pts would make mechanized firewarriors valid again, as would killing the mandatory devilfish for pathfinders.

And docbrown, put in the effort to spell, capitalize and punctuate. Your posts are hard and irritating to read.

Tau should be the best shooting army in the game with about the worst assualt options in the game.

This is what they were when they launched and it needs to be that way again. A shooting army that gets outshot with no real viable CC options is hardmode to the limit. Essentially you have old IG before they got buffed in 5th.

Make Tau the strongest shooting army and you will have a viable army that players have to use top tier tactics against. That happens by making suits stock BS4 and FWs getting some kind of BS upgrade that's more reliable. Add some new suit designs to take up fast attack slots and revise Skyrays and Vespid to be more viable.

my 2 cents.

Look through the forums and tell me there is not a whole heap of topics on Tau wishlisting. Also I can't understand other bits of your arguement however I will go as far to say that you not only speak gibberish but you have missed the main picture of markelights.

Im new to dakka maybe you guys are better here

Tau should be the best shooting army in the game with about the worst assualt options in the game.

thus bs4 all around

I'm sorry, did you want lazer beams instead that blow up with some ginormous explosion. what did you think they should be used for? When you have tracking beams that is kind of what they are supposed to do, increase accuracy. Excuse me if I don't think they should be ordnance.

tell me you can look a soldier straight in the face and tell him that a marking lazer is better used to to target infantry for the purposes of infantry
marker lights make more sense as a tool to identify targets that would otherwise be hidden and to aid technological equipment in a strike
Id expect a real army to use them to mark a hidden installation to assist an air based or sea based strike, not small arms fire

but now i have another question
everyone keeps saying 8 point fire warriors.
kroot are 7 points.
that means kroot have to drop way down to no.
but how far do kroot go?
I agree devil fishes are pricey but there also fairly good
Id rather have an 80 pt devil fish then 2 chimeras

either way GW IS NOT GOING TO RELEASE A 5TH EDITION CODEX WITHOUT CHANGES THAT AMOUNT TO MORE THEN PRICE DROPS
do you really want a whole new codex and models with no real difference?
are you that stuck in your little shell?

From what I understand first off, is that not much is going to be done to the Tau Codex. Rumor has it that Crisis Battlesuits will be bumped to 3 wounds, and that markerlights will work so that one markerlight = one unit (Ex. One markerlight, One Stingray gets to fire all of its missiles at the target, another markerlight will be needed for another unit to fire it's goodies).

I kinda do agree with the at least BS4 all around, I mean us Crons pretty much have that, so it'd kinda make sense if the shootiest army had BS4

King Pariah wrote:From what I understand first off, is that not much is going to be done to the Tau Codex. Rumor has it that Crisis Battlesuits will be bumped to 3 wounds, and that markerlights will work so that one markerlight = one unit (Ex. One markerlight, One Stingray gets to fire all of its missiles at the target, another markerlight will be needed for another unit to fire it's goodies).

I kinda do agree with the at least BS4 all around, I mean us Crons pretty much have that, so it'd kinda make sense if the shootiest army had BS4

thank you
and ignore tau rumors
there are so many and most of them are way out to lunch
the ones I take home with me are LOS railguns, markerlight reworks(though not the proposed ones), and suit variants

For the rest of you, I dont like 8 pt fire warriors. You know what else is 8 pts, Guardians. FW squads should not just be fodder. I want them to be effective not cheap. I play tau for a reason and its not because im a guard fanboy who likes anime style models. I want an army built around shooting efficiency and strength. An army that has many connecting pieces that create a grand strategy. An army where everything has a use. I get that each army has useless units. But FW's should not be one.

Tau "useless units":
stingrays
vespids
shapers
etherals
firewarriors
gun drone squads
sniper drone teams
stealth teams

Now some of these are closed minded players not being open to ideas but many of these are less then ideal for use.

Heres what i think tau should look like on the table:

Vespids should not lose to vanilla guard in CC
FW's should be on the high end of shooting in the game
Burst cannons should achieve more then 1 kill(bs will fix)
Kroot are fodder and are fine with that(very few changes needed)
Crisis suits need more options that grant special rules or at least enough to replace obsolete equipment.
Crisis suits need the ability to take more equipment then current.
Gun drones should be much better then they are(better BS, better leadership)
Drones in a unit do not count as a model in the unit(for leadership purposes)
Broadsides, Hammerheads, and Piranhas are fine
Marker Lights fulfill a different role but still an important one geared more to helping the army as opposed to a single unit
Skyrays are beyond helping in my opinion

their is a whole lot of posts on this thread. you might be inspired by some of the posts. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/326557.page