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My friend plays Tau and he fares pretty well with them. Granted, there is a challenge, but he holds his own. To me, it just comes down to playstyle and tactics. Sure, a few things could use an update, but you also do not want to unbalance the game. I played AT-43 for years and there was a certain build that pretty much owned all. Not fun when you sat down at a table and said "Oh, you are playing that? No use trying since it would only be a matter of time before you won."

Just to give a little support to my post, my Tau buddy has beaten my Space Marines, Orks, and Chaos SM.

I pretty much agree with Doc.

I do however think the Skyray can be fixed...

Skyray = 6 Missile Shots per turn max. (reloads every other turn)
One Markerlight = All six shots being rolled with vehicle BS of 5.

Bingo! Problem solved.

This is not an issue of tau success
Its an issue of the direction of progress


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BeefCakeSoup wrote:I pretty much agree with Doc.

I do however think the Skyray can be fixed...

Skyray = 6 Missile Shots per turn max. (reloads every other turn)
One Markerlight = All six shots being rolled with vehicle BS of 5.

Bingo! Problem solved.

HMM
s8ap3 still sucks
Best case scenario I kill 2-3 termies as thats all it will shoot at
Besides thats kinda OP
1 markerlight = 6 s8 ap3 shots

the skyray needs 60" markerlights, seeker missiles that can fragment into blasts, a Pintle mounted gun option, bonus vs fast/skimmer vehicles ect.
I say fix the markerlight, then maybe the skyray can be useful

I agree with a markerlight revision fully.

Making Skyrays swap out 8/3 hits for a small blast barrage wouldn't be a totally out of touch solution either. If the vehicle has failed as a MEQ killer it could be effective anti-horde. With a 60" markerlight range it could be interesting to say the least.

Whatever the new fixes are I'll be most interested in the Skayray revision.. the math on that sucker hurts depresses me.

Edit: haha re-read your post and caught the blast idea! Great minds my friend!

The Skyray should spit D6 missile attacks par turn, that would make it a viable anti-Meq/anti-tank platform, while the Railhead is either anti-tank or anti-horde.

If it was changed like that, I'd be seriously torn between railheads, skyrays and broadsides for my heavy slot.

The Ionhead... well, not enough volume of fire in the first place to be usefull. But better a useless weapon option in a usefull tank than a useless unit.

I think that the ion head could kinda full the role of a jack of all trades agenst troops kind of role. If you have skyray for meq/tanks and railgun or swarm/tanks and the broadsides... well you know, then the ion cannon could be an effective anti meq/swarm?

I would also like to point out that although we may not agree with what you are saying (those who can understand) it does not mean that we don't want change. I welcome it. However irrational change is stupid.

From the latest few Codexes it seems we are missing a high shot number weapon.

The Burst Cannon either needs to stay as it is but increase it's range OR stay as it is but make it Assault 4/5.

3 Shots for a multi-barrelled cannon is just meh...It would be a good up close anti-assault weapon that can keep hordes at bay or force lots of saves on MEQs. Obviously the price would need raising but I feel it would be justified.

Look at what DE can have and IG. A much higher amount of shots per weapon.

A pulse rifle and pulse carbine with an increased ROF gives base fire warriors an increased chance of hits. Add to that the potential to markerlight up their accuracy and I think leaving the base Tau at BS3 is viable. However I would agree that all suits should be BS4.

evalec please explain how bs4 FW's are irrational

DAaddict a pulse carbine with increased rate of fire exists, Dire avengers hold it, Im pretty sure they don't want dire avengers and fire warriors to be the same

gr1m_dan yes we are but we are the SOF army where as guard are the ROF army, thus whyi say better BS for all rather then more shots. We are not guard and i like that.

First of it's evaelc. the least you could do is spell it right especially since it is right in front of you.

Next. FW have only been on the battlefield for less than four years. four years tops without being a shas'ui. (BTW I reckon shas'uis should be BS 4, +1 atk and +1 ld is ridiculous for another 10 points). Most other stuff with BS 4 has been training nuts or has something to help them or has been through some intense stuff. BS 4 makes no sense unless there was some inbred gene which doesn't make sense either.

The only reason they should have BS 4 was if some noob only cared about their role on the battlefield. I said it was irrational however it could be functional.

docbrown wrote:evalec please explain how bs4 FW's are irrational

DAaddict a pulse carbine with increased rate of fire exists, Dire avengers hold it, Im pretty sure they don't want dire avengers and fire warriors to be the same

gr1m_dan yes we are but we are the SOF army where as guard are the ROF army, thus whyi say better BS for all rather then more shots. We are not guard and i like that.

Sure it exists and it is weaker on the DA. OTOH a Dire avenger can hold its own in CC between Defend and a shimmershield. I am not proposing that a Tau get the BS of 4 or bladestorm either. At its core what bugs me is that the Tau are build around markerlight technology and then the best unit they can field is pumping out 12 shots at a range exceeding 18" and can't do better than 24 shots at 12" for a reasonable cost. The only option I see is a 300 point squad (6 x stealth suits with 12 gun drones) that puts out 30 shots. This is the conundrum of the tau. You have mediocre BS with the ability to modify it up but you can only modify it in bits and pieces.

irst of it's evaelc. the least you could do is spell it right especially since it is right in front of you.

sorry if my dilexia bothers you it happens with non english words. I see it in my mind and pronounce it the wrong way and from then on thats the only way i can comprehend it.
ex. Grimsdottor becomes Grismotodor. Everytime i spell say or read it thats what i see lol.

makes no sense unless there was some inbred gene which doesn't make sense either.

The tau are split into 4 castes which inbreed specifically to evolve in the direction of those castes. The Fire Caste is a sub race that breeds to fight. They all suck as CC so they must be breading to shoot. Does that not sound like a means to have natural BS.

Sorry about that did not know you had dislexia.

What races have mainly BS 4 models? MEQs space elves and other mega nuts stuff. We are only Tau and Bs3 is fine what needs to be upgraded is other systems like the markerlights, and other support units. Speaking of other units, I have just looked at the citadel finecast for tau and all they have done is the sniper drone team and an ethereal. What the hell?

Ok, I agree with many others here that Fire Warriors should be BS3 base (Imperial Guardsmen are BS 3, and they're already the cream of the human crop). However, I also think that Tau need options. An upgrade for FWs that raises their BS to 4 would be nice, and the R18", Assault 2 Pulse Carbines and R30", Heavy 2 Pulse Rifles mentioned so far would work well to increase fire output, and ensure that numerically inferior Tau units can match outnumbering enemies in terms of firepower. Fire warriors could also carry Pulse Pistols in addition to their rifles, to at least provide them with a degree of mobile firepower.
Suits should automatically come with BS4. T5 with two Wounds would be also be fair.

I'd like to see heavy weapon options for troops, such as Burst Cannons, Fusion Blasters, Flamers, Missile Pods/Smart Missile Systems, Rail Rifles... maybe even options like Cyclic Ion Blasters and Networked Markerlights.

As for Markerlights... maybe pulse weapons that fire at a lit target could count as Sniper weapons or something? Other than increasing BS, negating cover and guiding missiles, I'm not sure what other benefits they could have. Maybe GW could implement something like "artillery teams" intended to work in tandem with Markerlights? Or Markerlight-guided orbital/off-map missiles or artillery as a Heavy Support choice?

I think Networked Markerlights sounds like a pretty nice idea.

I_am_a_Spoon wrote:Ok, I agree with many others here that Fire Warriors should be BS3 base (Imperial Guardsmen are BS 3, and they're already the cream of the human crop). However, I also think that Tau need options. An upgrade for FWs that raises their BS to 4 would be nice, and the R18", Assault 2 Pulse Carbines and R30", Heavy 2 Pulse Rifles mentioned so far would work well to increase fire output, and ensure that numerically inferior Tau units can match outnumbering enemies in terms of firepower. Fire warriors could also carry Pulse Pistols in addition to their rifles, to at least provide them with a degree of mobile firepower.
Suits should automatically come with BS4. T5 with two Wounds would be also be fair.

I'd like to see heavy weapon options for troops, such as Burst Cannons, Fusion Blasters, Flamers, Missile Pods/Smart Missile Systems, Rail Rifles... maybe even options like Cyclic Ion Blasters and Networked Markerlights.

As for Markerlights... maybe pulse weapons that fire at a lit target could count as Sniper weapons or something? Other than increasing BS, negating cover and guiding missiles, I'm not sure what other benefits they could have. Maybe GW could implement something like "artillery teams" intended to work in tandem with Markerlights? Or Markerlight-guided orbital/off-map missiles or artillery as a Heavy Support choice?

you know if its an option of any kind that doesnt cost enough to make it pointless thats fine with me. I just say Tau, In any form, should never miss on a 3. Regardless of how its done. The premier quality of fire army should not be missing half of its shots

All markerlights should be networked

I like the idea of T5 suits but not as a standard. Make it an upgrade.

and its only slight dislexia

ultimatum: kroot bs2 or FW bs4. They cant be the same. As it stands against llight infantry kroot have the advantage in shooting. That is wrong.

The railgun should also be able to go through multiple targets. Do you really think a high powered beam is just going to stop with just ONE tank?

Giving railguns that space wolf thing wont happen. something like the lance special rule could.

Smitty wrote:The railgun should also be able to go through multiple targets. Do you really think a high powered beam is just going to stop with just ONE tank?

It isn't a beam. It's a single projectile fired using electricty that forms a magnetic field around both rails, with the projectile being a conductor allowing the current to pass through it from one rail to the other. Sciency magic happens (something i'm not qualified to understand) which propels the projectile along the rails and fires it at the speed of tens of kilometres per second.

The speed of the projectile gives it energy yields that equal or even exceed that of more conventional explosives-based and heavier ammunition, giving it amazing armour penetration capability that will obviously become expended over time and with each impact, but a lot slower than conventional ammunition would.

How about any units that obscure a Railgun's target take a hit too?

again a railgun is just an accelerated aluminum projectile
i think the railgun should get an extra 1+ for results as it hits with such intense impact
The Impact afterwards however is dissipated tremendously. What he says make sense science wise so i no longer think multiple hits should be taken.
How about if penetration is successful a template is blasted out the rear of the vehicle in line of the shot. That way "the immense impact causes a destructive blast to exit the vehicle.



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Ps how railguns work
1 a metal projectile is placed between 2 copper rails
2 a massive current is sent through the projectile via the rails
3 the projectile is given forward momentum by external force
4 lorentz force amplifies this momentum to insane levels

docbrown wrote:again a railgun is just an accelerated aluminum projectile
i think the railgun should get an extra 1+ for results as it hits with such intense impact
The Impact afterwards however is dissipated tremendously. What he says make sense science wise so i no longer think multiple hits should be taken.
How about if penetration is successful a template is blasted out the rear of the vehicle in line of the shot. That way "the immense impact causes a destructive blast to exit the vehicle.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ps how railguns work
1 a metal projectile is placed between 2 copper rails
2 a massive current is sent through the projectile via the rails
3 the projectile is given forward momentum by external force
4 lorentz force amplifies this momentum to insane levels

Aluminum?

The prefered metal is Tungsten, dense and extremely resistant to electromagnetic field created by the rail gun, making it an ideal sabo round.

"i think the railgun should get an extra 1+ for results as it hits with such intense impact "

...You already get that. It's called AP1.

I read in the tau codex that a rhino that got hit by a railgun sucked out everything not bolted down out the exit wound. While this does seem like troll physics it would be kinda cool if a version of this could happen.

To quote your sig, "That doesn't seem physically possible!!!!"
it would mean creating a vacuum strong enough to suck a human into a paste or something like it.
The railgun is powerful enough at s10 ap1,
It would be nice to have a +2 on the damage table but that means you are popping all tanks on a 3+

Evaelc wrote:I read in the tau codex that a rhino that got hit by a railgun sucked out everything not bolted down out the exit wound. While this does seem like troll physics it would be kinda cool if a version of this could happen.

This isn't troll physics, look you Thermobaric weapons for an example of vacuums powerful enough to kill people and destroy buildings.

Also modern sabot rounds do create a change in temperature and pressure (as in they both dramatically increase) which could result in things that aren't secured all that well to fly out of the tank through openings, nevermind the size of the hole. This increase in temp and pressure can also be partially accounted to why the tops of tanks op when they get hit by a sabot.

According to wikipedia, a railgun could be fired so that the next shot chambered almost instantly, visit the wikipedia page for more info.
Fully automatic Railgun anyone?

Back to the OP

Firewarriors would have to be BS3 otherwise the current ML rules make them insane
Pulse weapons could work with Rending, these are the premier standard issue weapons in the game after all (DE have poisoned, orks have volume, MEQs are accurate so with rending we should fill the last spot with powerful)
However, BS4 battlesuits is fine, they are elite/fast/heavy troops that are fighting with the assistance of awesome tech, BS3 is underpowere
Stealth teams need to have more short ranged options and BCs need to fire more shots if they are to become usable
Kroot should be unchanged in their profile, give em stealth and fleet and they are fine
Shaper must be cheaper

An all round points decrease is necessary to keep in-line with current armies.

DaemonJellybaby wrote:According to wikipedia, a railgun could be fired so that the next shot chambered almost instantly, visit the wikipedia page for more info.
Fully automatic Railgun anyone?

Back to the OP

Firewarriors would have to be BS3 otherwise the current ML rules make them insane
Pulse weapons could work with Rending, these are the premier standard issue weapons in the game after all (DE have poisoned, orks have volume, MEQs are accurate so with rending we should fill the last spot with powerful)
However, BS4 battlesuits is fine, they are elite/fast/heavy troops that are fighting with the assistance of awesome tech, BS3 is underpowere
Stealth teams need to have more short ranged options and BCs need to fire more shots if they are to become usable
Kroot should be unchanged in their profile, give em stealth and fleet and they are fine
Shaper must be cheaper

An all round points decrease is necessary to keep in-line with current armies.

Your forgeting vespids.

Yeah and sniper drones.

However i don't think a small projectile would be able to suck a 5 man squad of marines out through a small hole. I have been wrong though. more often than not.