| Author |
Message |
 |
|
|
|
|
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
2011/05/27 03:18:33
Subject: 1+ armour saves and AP
|
|
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon
Marrickville (sydney) NSW, Australia
|
I was told by one of my friends who play grey knights that they can get a 1+ armour save. Now while a 1 is always a failure, does that mean that they always get a save unless its AP1 or just ignores armour? This might come up soon so I'd like a ruling before I play him. Thoughts?
|
ChrisWWII wrote:"Yea verily, though I pass through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil for I am driving a house sized mass of FETH YOU!"
themocaw wrote:I view slaanesh as a giant ball of boobs and genitalia of both sexes.
Edmondblack: There's something about some str10, AP2 blast weaponry which says "i love you" in that very special way. |
|
|
 |
|
2011/05/27 03:25:51
Subject: 1+ armour saves and AP
|
|
Kabalite Conscript
|
Yup. 1 always fails, but he has a 2+ unless the attack is AP1 or ignores saves.
|
 The only Dark Eldar exlcusive forum!
Enter the Dark City!
http://thedarkcity.forummotion.com/ |
|
|
|
|
2011/05/27 03:43:54
Subject: 1+ armour saves and AP
|
|
Ship's Officer
|
Your friend is incorrect. There is no way to get a 1+ armor save in the Grey Knights codex, or any other codex.
Page 6 of the main rulebook, third regular paragraph, last sentence: "Saves at best can be modified to 2+."
|
|
|
|
|
|
2011/05/27 03:48:18
Subject: Re:1+ armour saves and AP
|
|
Societal Outcast
|
Page 24 of the BRB:
Some models gain additional benefits from rules that
may increase any of their saves by + 1 or +2. However,
no save (armour, cover or invulnerable) can ever be
improved beyond 2+. A roll of 1 always fails.
|
"GW seem desperate to keep their new products a secret in case people might actually want to buy them. They can be assured that thanks to their new pricing strategy, there really is no danger of this happening." --Flashman |
|
|
|
|
2011/05/27 03:55:21
Subject: 1+ armour saves and AP
|
|
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
|
Yes, but after Draigo pistol whipped all 4 of the Chaos Gods he recieved 1+(2++) armor in the form of a WWDD bracelet of cheesewhiz.
|
DO:70S++G++M+B++I+Pw40k93/f#++D++++A++++/eWD-R++++T(D)DM+
Note: Records since 2010, lists kept current (W-D-L)  Blue DP Crusade 126-11-6  Biel-Tan Aspect Waves 2-0-2  Looted Green Horde smash your face in 32-7-8  Broadside/Shield Drone/Kroot blitz goodness 23-3-4  Grey Hunters galore 17-5-5  Khan Bikes Win 63-1-1  Tanith with Pardus Armor 11-0-0  Crimson Tide 59-4-0  Green/Raven/Deathwing 18-0-0  Jumping GK force with Inq. 4-0-0  BTemplars w LRs 7-1-2  IH Legion with Automata 8-0-0  RG Legion w Adepticon medal 6-0-0 Primaris and Little Buddies 7-0-0
QM Templates here, HH army builder app for both v1 and v2
One Page 40k Ruleset for Game Beginners |
|
|
|
|
2011/05/27 03:59:23
Subject: 1+ armour saves and AP
|
|
Longtime Dakkanaut
Maryland
|
Ah. I think I know where he went wrong.
He probably looked at what the Nemesis force sword's effect was, and read it as increasing 'saves' or 'armor save' by +1.
So, Grey Knight terminators? +1 Armour save.
|
|
|
|
|
|
2011/05/27 04:01:42
Subject: 1+ armour saves and AP
|
|
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
|
I don't play GK, but I thought the sword just increased invulnerable saves... or is that some other weapon
|
DO:70S++G++M+B++I+Pw40k93/f#++D++++A++++/eWD-R++++T(D)DM+
Note: Records since 2010, lists kept current (W-D-L) Blue DP Crusade 126-11-6 Biel-Tan Aspect Waves 2-0-2 Looted Green Horde smash your face in 32-7-8 Broadside/Shield Drone/Kroot blitz goodness 23-3-4 Grey Hunters galore 17-5-5 Khan Bikes Win 63-1-1 Tanith with Pardus Armor 11-0-0 Crimson Tide 59-4-0 Green/Raven/Deathwing 18-0-0 Jumping GK force with Inq. 4-0-0 BTemplars w LRs 7-1-2 IH Legion with Automata 8-0-0 RG Legion w Adepticon medal 6-0-0 Primaris and Little Buddies 7-0-0
QM Templates here, HH army builder app for both v1 and v2
One Page 40k Ruleset for Game Beginners |
|
|
|
|
2011/05/27 04:03:22
Subject: 1+ armour saves and AP
|
|
Societal Outcast
|
infinite_array wrote:Ah. I think I know where he went wrong.
He probably looked at what the Nemesis force sword's effect was, and read it as increasing 'saves' or 'armor save' by +1.
So, Grey Knight terminators? +1 Armour save.
That... or he tried equipping something with a Nemesis Force Stave (2+ invulnerable in close combat) and a Nemesis Force Sword (improves invulnerable save by 1 in close combat).
Lobukia wrote:I don't play GK, but I thought the sword just increased invulnerable saves... or is that some other weapon
The sword does indeed only affect invulnerable saves and only in close combat.
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/27 04:05:28
"GW seem desperate to keep their new products a secret in case people might actually want to buy them. They can be assured that thanks to their new pricing strategy, there really is no danger of this happening." --Flashman |
|
|
|
|
2011/05/27 04:19:58
Subject: 1+ armour saves and AP
|
|
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
|
rmn498 wrote:
That... or he tried equipping something with a Nemesis Force Stave (2+ invulnerable in close combat) and a Nemesis Force Sword (improves invulnerable save by 1 in close combat).
...so nothing gained by having both then?
|
DO:70S++G++M+B++I+Pw40k93/f#++D++++A++++/eWD-R++++T(D)DM+
Note: Records since 2010, lists kept current (W-D-L) Blue DP Crusade 126-11-6 Biel-Tan Aspect Waves 2-0-2 Looted Green Horde smash your face in 32-7-8 Broadside/Shield Drone/Kroot blitz goodness 23-3-4 Grey Hunters galore 17-5-5 Khan Bikes Win 63-1-1 Tanith with Pardus Armor 11-0-0 Crimson Tide 59-4-0 Green/Raven/Deathwing 18-0-0 Jumping GK force with Inq. 4-0-0 BTemplars w LRs 7-1-2 IH Legion with Automata 8-0-0 RG Legion w Adepticon medal 6-0-0 Primaris and Little Buddies 7-0-0
QM Templates here, HH army builder app for both v1 and v2
One Page 40k Ruleset for Game Beginners |
|
|
|
|
2011/05/27 04:22:54
Subject: 1+ armour saves and AP
|
|
Societal Outcast
|
Lobukia wrote:rmn498 wrote:
That... or he tried equipping something with a Nemesis Force Stave (2+ invulnerable in close combat) and a Nemesis Force Sword (improves invulnerable save by 1 in close combat).
...so nothing gained by having both then?
It's never possible in the codex to actually equip anybody with both, but since saves can never be any better than 2+ it would be useless to try.
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/27 04:27:02
"GW seem desperate to keep their new products a secret in case people might actually want to buy them. They can be assured that thanks to their new pricing strategy, there really is no danger of this happening." --Flashman |
|
|
|
|
2011/05/27 04:46:08
Subject: Re:1+ armour saves and AP
|
|
Fixture of Dakka
|
Terminator Armor and monkeys could have done this. But alas, still a 2+ save.
|
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. |
|
|
|
|
2011/05/27 07:23:23
Subject: 1+ armour saves and AP
|
|
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon
Marrickville (sydney) NSW, Australia
|
Thanks. Glad my plasma will still hurt him... if I can ever get the #$%$ing things to _not_ blow up in my hands... 
|
ChrisWWII wrote:"Yea verily, though I pass through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil for I am driving a house sized mass of FETH YOU!"
themocaw wrote:I view slaanesh as a giant ball of boobs and genitalia of both sexes.
Edmondblack: There's something about some str10, AP2 blast weaponry which says "i love you" in that very special way. |
|
|
|
|
2011/05/27 07:28:09
Subject: 1+ armour saves and AP
|
|
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan
|
CoI wrote:Thanks. Glad my plasma will still hurt him... if I can ever get the #$%$ing things to _not_ blow up in my hands...
Plasma: melts in your hands, not in your mouth. 
|
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. |
|
|
|
|
2011/05/27 09:51:50
Subject: 1+ armour saves and AP
|
|
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon
Marrickville (sydney) NSW, Australia
|
My grey hunter's aren't _that_ stu...  oh god that explains everything...
|
ChrisWWII wrote:"Yea verily, though I pass through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil for I am driving a house sized mass of FETH YOU!"
themocaw wrote:I view slaanesh as a giant ball of boobs and genitalia of both sexes.
Edmondblack: There's something about some str10, AP2 blast weaponry which says "i love you" in that very special way. |
|
|
|
|
2011/05/27 14:14:02
Subject: 1+ armour saves and AP
|
|
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
|
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Plasma: melts in your hands, not in your mouth.
Plamsa: Melts your Hands, AAAGGHH! My HANDS!
|
40k:  2500 pts. All Built, Mostly Painted Pics: 1 -- 2 -- 3
BFG:  1500 pts. Mostly built, half painted Pics: 1
Blood Bowl:  Complete! Pics: 1
Fantasy:    Daemons, just starting Pic: 1 |
|
|
|
|
2011/05/27 14:23:04
Subject: Re:1+ armour saves and AP
|
|
Regular Dakkanaut
|
I think somewhere in the Tempus Fugitives Event Campaigns, they used primarch armour (primarchs had awesome stats like Ws 9, BS, S&T6 stuff like that) which has a 1+ save.
Of course, 1 is always a failure, but Plasma weapons can't penetrate the armour..
|
|
|
|
|
2011/05/27 15:31:03
Subject: 1+ armour saves and AP
|
|
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta
|
CoI wrote:Thanks. Glad my plasma will still hurt him... if I can ever get the #$%$ing things to _not_ blow up in my hands...
model your guys wearing oven mits to hold the gun? that might help
|
10000 points  7000
6000 
5000 
5000 
2000 
|
|
|
|
|
2011/05/27 19:11:51
Subject: 1+ armour saves and AP
|
|
Member of the Malleus
SLC, UT
|
G00fySmiley wrote:CoI wrote:Thanks. Glad my plasma will still hurt him... if I can ever get the #$%$ing things to _not_ blow up in my hands...
model your guys wearing oven mits to hold the gun? that might help
Oven mits of the Emperor protects!
|
"Huddle close to your Emperor if he makes you feel safe. He cannot save you, for only Chaos is eternal."
Cross: Noun. A thing you nail people to.
Iron Warriors 3k  Yme-Loc 6k
 Grey Knights 2k <3 Harlequin WIP
 Vampire Counts 3K  Dwarfs 2k
|
|
|
|
|
2011/05/27 19:29:30
Subject: 1+ armour saves and AP
|
|
Dour Wolf Priest with Iron Wolf Amulet
|
CoI wrote:I was told by one of my friends who play grey knights that they can get a 1+ armour save. Now while a 1 is always a failure, does that mean that they always get a save unless its AP1 or just ignores armour? This might come up soon so I'd like a ruling before I play him. Thoughts?
I'm guessing your friend is one of the numerous 8 year olds who picked up the GK Codex and said "I've got da best army evers!! S14 Dreadknights that can be transported by Stormravens! Everyone's I10!"
|
|
|
|
|
|
2011/05/27 19:38:42
Subject: 1+ armour saves and AP
|
|
Member of the Malleus
SLC, UT
|
Andilus Greatsword wrote:CoI wrote:I was told by one of my friends who play grey knights that they can get a 1+ armour save. Now while a 1 is always a failure, does that mean that they always get a save unless its AP1 or just ignores armour? This might come up soon so I'd like a ruling before I play him. Thoughts?
I'm guessing your friend is one of the numerous 8 year olds who picked up the GK Codex and said "I've got da best army evers!! S14 Dreadknights that can be transported by Stormravens! Everyone's I10!"
Dreadknights can't be str14? But it doubles their str!!!!! And DKs can totally ride in SRs, they probably pilot them because they're so L337!!!
/sarcasm off
|
"Huddle close to your Emperor if he makes you feel safe. He cannot save you, for only Chaos is eternal."
Cross: Noun. A thing you nail people to.
Iron Warriors 3k Yme-Loc 6k
Grey Knights 2k <3 Harlequin WIP
Vampire Counts 3K Dwarfs 2k
|
|
|
|
|
2011/05/27 19:40:25
Subject: 1+ armour saves and AP
|
|
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan
|
Sothas wrote:Andilus Greatsword wrote:CoI wrote:I was told by one of my friends who play grey knights that they can get a 1+ armour save. Now while a 1 is always a failure, does that mean that they always get a save unless its AP1 or just ignores armour? This might come up soon so I'd like a ruling before I play him. Thoughts?
I'm guessing your friend is one of the numerous 8 year olds who picked up the GK Codex and said "I've got da best army evers!! S14 Dreadknights that can be transported by Stormravens! Everyone's I10!"
Dreadknights can't be str14? But it doubles their str!!!!! And DKs can totally ride in SRs, they probably pilot them because they're so L337!!!
/sarcasm off
Just sayin', S6x2=12...
|
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. |
|
|
|
|
2011/05/28 03:33:32
Subject: 1+ armour saves and AP
|
|
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon
Marrickville (sydney) NSW, Australia
|
Nah, he's never used it, it was just something he noticed. We both knew that a 1 is a failure, but whether or not AP2 weapons still forced an invul was the issue, as both of us could see it both ways.
|
ChrisWWII wrote:"Yea verily, though I pass through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil for I am driving a house sized mass of FETH YOU!"
themocaw wrote:I view slaanesh as a giant ball of boobs and genitalia of both sexes.
Edmondblack: There's something about some str10, AP2 blast weaponry which says "i love you" in that very special way. |
|
|
|
|
2011/05/28 05:02:12
Subject: 1+ armour saves and AP
|
|
Dakka Veteran
|
There is no blanket rule stating that 1 is always a failure.
|
|
|
|
|
2011/05/28 05:17:01
Subject: 1+ armour saves and AP
|
|
Long-Range Black Templar Land Speeder Pilot
Indiana
|
Lol your friend is a dick.
|
My Armies:
- Death Wing and Green Wing
- Tacticals and Devastators
  - Retired
|
|
|
|
|
2011/05/28 06:09:41
Subject: 1+ armour saves and AP
|
|
Lesser Daemon of Chaos
Phoenix, Arizona
|
Veldrain wrote:There is no blanket rule stating that 1 is always a failure.
Didn't read the rule book did you...? I would DEFINITELY suggest doing that.
~Vryce
|
Sometimes, the only truth people understand, comes from the barrel of a gun.
|
|
|
|
|
2011/05/28 06:27:31
Subject: 1+ armour saves and AP
|
|
Ship's Officer
|
Vryce wrote:Veldrain wrote:There is no blanket rule stating that 1 is always a failure.
Didn't read the rule book did you...? I would DEFINITELY suggest doing that. ~Vryce
...um, Veldrain is correct. There is NOT a rule stating that a roll of 1 is always a failure. If you can find one, please quote the rule and page number. For many types of rolls, such as To-Hit and To-Wound rolls, a 1 is always a failure, but for things like Characteristic Tests, a roll of 1 is always a success (p8, left column). On the other hand, as people have pointed out, the OP's issue is a moot point because there can never be a 1+ Save.
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/28 06:28:02
|
|
|
|
|
2011/05/28 13:10:08
Subject: 1+ armour saves and AP
|
|
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon
Marrickville (sydney) NSW, Australia
|
And that wasn't what the question was about. He wasn't even going to try saying he had a 1+ save. 2+ is the best you can get. The question was about AP. By technicially making it a 1+ you still fail on a 1 but plasma would no longer be something he had to worry about. But from what people have said he's more than likely misread it so it won't be an issue.
|
ChrisWWII wrote:"Yea verily, though I pass through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil for I am driving a house sized mass of FETH YOU!"
themocaw wrote:I view slaanesh as a giant ball of boobs and genitalia of both sexes.
Edmondblack: There's something about some str10, AP2 blast weaponry which says "i love you" in that very special way. |
|
|
|
|
2011/05/28 15:38:23
Subject: 1+ armour saves and AP
|
|
Sneaky Sniper Drone
Garner, N.C.
|
lol...my railgun would still create a new @$$hole for you if you'd like...
|
I am NOT a crook. I have never stolen a thing in my life. BUT I have borrowed things with no intent whatsoever on returning them....   |
|
|
|
|
2011/05/28 15:56:45
Subject: 1+ armour saves and AP
|
|
Deadshot Weapon Moderati
|
on a side note to the question. ap1 and 2 ingnore all armour saves. if a 1+ save was possible (which it is not) it will still be a 2+ as ones always fail and all ap1 and 2 weapons would ignore it anyway. only main reason for ap 1 over ap 2 is that it is +1 on the vehicle damage table
|
"Innocence Proves Nothing... Except That You've Done Nothing Wrong"
Welcome to the Daemonhunters, the ranks of the exalted Ordo Malleus and their cannon fod....er, I mean, loyal allies. Remember...the only ones who need fear the righteous might of the Ordo Malleus are the Daemonic.
quote: Dashofpepper: ...sad rivulet of demon prince tears. He ponders for a moment, then lashes the demon hunters into him. He assaults them, kills a terminator or two....and then demon hunters being demon hunters....they proceed to wtfpwn him. Second player leaves the table... |
|
|
|
|
2011/05/28 18:20:22
Subject: 1+ armour saves and AP
|
|
Lord of the Fleet
|
The Acolyte wrote: ones always fail
There is no one=autofail rule in 40K.
Most things fail on a one because the rule specifically says so - e.g. the to-hit table has no 1+ section.
Lots of things can succeed on a one - e.g. armour pen rolls, characteristic tests, etc.
Armour cannot be improved past 2+.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
