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Hello all. First of all, I would like to say I LOVE Steampunk, which is why the interest in Warmachine. Second of all, because 40K is becoming less and less of a game I want to play, I am in the market for something else. Third of all, I like the look of the Models.

Now the questions:

1) In Warhammer 40K, my gaming group plays 1000 pt matches. For those of you familiar with how big that is, about how big, model/jack/$$$ wise is that in Warmachine?

2) If I want to close ground and punch face, which faction would be best for that? I'm assuming Khador, but you know what they say about assume-ing.

3) What is the relation to specific Warjacks and Warcasters? Do certain Warcasters use more Warjacks? Are certain Warcasters better suited to different Warjacks; I.E. Warcaster A is better with Warjack A than Warcaster B is?

I'll ask more as I think of them, thanks for answering in advance

Welcome to the game. I'll try to answer all your questions as best as I can.
1: 15 or 25 points, but even an average warmachine game will probably go that quick so don't feel like you can't go up to 35 or 50 points and play in about the same time.

2: Khador loves punching faces(or most any other body part) but closing ground is the difficult part for anyone that brings melee specialists. Any warmachine faction can play multiple ways -including a melee rush- but put their own spin on things. I almost want to say cryx just because they are faster in general and rely more on that fast advance than covering fire from ranged options, but khador dose very well just taking that extra hit, having riflemen shoot anything in their charge lanes, and keeps on coming at you with those giant axes. Lots of options here.

3: Yea, you basically have it right. A caster with two spells and feat that benefit ranged attacks will get more out of a jack with a big gun than a caster that buffs charge range. There's nothing written on the card that says"this character makes X jack better" and you can certainly use some versatility in a list but you need to make the most of the tools you bring.

1.In Warmachine most common games are 35 and 50 points (I guess 40K equivalent would be 1500-1750 and 2000-2250 points). 1000 point equivalent would be 25 points, which is fine and rather popular among new players but I personally think 35 is more balanced, since you can take models to cover you caster's weaknesses, in 25 you can sometimes run into rock-paper-scissors situations. As for amount of models it varies from caster to caster, but generally at 25 points you will have 2-4 warjacks and 1-3 units, though there can easily be more warjacks/units with specific casters. Cost of 25 point army is about $100-$150.

2. In Warmachine playstyle of your army often depend more on your warcaster choice than faction, especially in original 4 factions who have a lot of model and caster choices. While Khador probably has most strong melee options all other factions also have at least few fast melee lists. Menoth would be lose second in the amount of face-beating it can offer, Cryx can also offer really strong melee punch (though it lacks resilience). Cygnar doesn't have strong melee troops but it has pretty good melee jacks and some caster who can make them sing. Retribution is more of combined-arms faction, though it has some really strong melee options too.
Also are you interested in Hordes? If so legion is probably the closest thing to what are you looking for, it's a "blitzkrieg" faction of the game so to speak, specializing in striking fist and hardest.

3.Do certain Warcasters use more Warjacks? Yes, definitely, some caster may only want to take one or two jacks and ton of infantry while others may take bunch of jack with only some infantry for support/tarpitting. Though it depends on faction. For example Khador and Cryx casters usually prefers going infantry-heavy but several of them can do almost jack-only armies. Menoth usually goes jack-heavy since they have ton of non-warcaster jack support, Cygnar usually favors balanced armies, as do Retribution.
As for certain jacks with certain casters - well there are some jacks who works better with certain caster because those caster can help with its weak points or get more use out of it's good ones, but in general good jack is good with all casters.

Thanks for the replies

So would it be possible to form a Khador Gunline, or at least feild ONE 'Jack that is nothing but guns? I'm not seeing one at the Gallery I am looking at.

Also, is Kommander Strakhov considered to be good? How many Warjacks can he control comfortably? Would he be a good choice for a bunch of Melee Jacks and shooty infantry?

I really like the way Khador looks, Jack-wise. Speaking of, how big is a 'Jack? 40K Dreadnaught sized? Because I am not going to lie, if I were to drop Warmachine and go back to Warhammer 40K,



Would make a bad ass Dreadnaught.

The "nothing but guns" 'jack option for Khador is the Behemoth.



But if you want extreme sized guns, then converting an Extremoth might be for you.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4026/4361496512_f06338aac6.jpg

Second picture isn't loading :(

Is the Behemoth effective, cost wise and other?

What's the general consensus on the Devastator and Spriggan?

Slarg232 wrote:Thanks for the replies

So would it be possible to form a Khador Gunline, or at least feild ONE 'Jack that is nothing but guns? I'm not seeing one at the Gallery I am looking at.

It's not exactly possible to do so using only warjacks, but you can have an infantry gunline (I suggest Winter guard) backed up by a couple of powerful warjacks with bombards to provide artillery support. Also, all warjacks have hand weapons of some sort, but it's usually a backup weapon so you don't run into the "Well, my fire warriors are engaged, they're not doing anything else today" situation.

Also, is Kommander Strakhov considered to be good? How many Warjacks can he control comfortably? Would he be a good choice for a bunch of Melee Jacks and shooty infantry?

In general, most Khador armies don't want to run more than one or two warjacks (possibly three), not because their warjacks are particularly bad, but because their infantry is quite good. Strakhov, in my opinion, is one of the better Khador warcasters: his feat is vicious (gives your warjacks a one-round speed boost and lets them charge without spending focus). One of his signature spells essentially gives one model on the table overwatch (put it on an artillery piece or a warjack with a gun), while another is called Superiority and does exactly that: it makes a warjack Superior. He himself is a hit-and-run warcaster who is surprisingly squirrely for a Khadoran, and gives your normally slow warjacks a bunch of out-of-turn movement. You'll have fun with him.

I really like the way Khador looks, Jack-wise. Speaking of, how big is a 'Jack? 40K Dreadnaught sized? Because I am not going to lie, if I were to drop Warmachine and go back to Warhammer 40K,

<extreme destroyer>

Would make a bad ass Dreadnaught.

The base on the warjacks you posted are 50mm, about the same size as a Dreadnaught base. You can use that as a size comparison.

And the Extreme Destroyer you posted is a limited edition model only sold on the Privateer Press website. And yes. . .it's badass.


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Slarg232 wrote:Second picture isn't loading :(

Is the Behemoth effective, cost wise and other?

What's the general consensus on the Devastator and Spriggan?

Behemoth can be very effective. Here's a rundown of what it does: First, it charges. At the end of its charge, it shoots two big bombards from its shoulders that blow up some guys. Then it punches someone with an armor-piercing fist that can deal an average of around 8 damage per punch to a Khador heavy. It does this twice, then it can buy up to three more punches depending on how much focus you gave it. Downside: it's expensive, both $$ and points wise, it's a huge priority target, and the kit is a bitch to put together.

The Devastator does one thing: it bricks up into a giant rock, rumbles forward, then opens up, fires a bunch of claymore mines all around it, and everything around it dies. Or, if you like, it can rumble forward, grab someone, and suplex him. The Spriggan, on the other hand, walks forward shooting grenades until it reaches the enemy, then it plows through your opponent's front lines, then beats things up with a big lance.

Oh, thank ye

What about the Beast 09? And is Torch a good investment with Strakhov, since it's supposidly his favorite?

This is where I am getting all these questions from, haven't read the rules yet: http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery

Slarg232 wrote:Oh, thank ye

What about the Beast 09? And is Torch a good investment with Strakhov, since it's supposidly his favorite?

This is where I am getting all these questions from, haven't read the rules yet: http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery

Beast09 is literally a beast. It's a big-ass beatstick that kills anything it touches. When he gets shot, it makes him angry and he rushes the enemy out of turn. Most Khador players love him because he's so damn fast and so damn killy.

Torch is more subtle, but still fun. Unlike Beast, who basically applies axe to face and that is all, Torch burns you with a flamethrower first, then saws you in half with a buzzsaw. Its signature abilities are Gunfighter (which lets it use its flamethrower in melee), Virtuoso (which lets it use its flamethrower and its melee weapons in the same turn), and Relentless Charge (which let it ignore terrain when charging. It comes as an upgrade kit for the normal Khador plastic warjack kit.

If you want a rundown of what the various warjacks and units do, you can look here: http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/mkiiKhador A lot of the terms might not make sense until you play a few games, but it will give you an idea of how they work.

So, does this sound like it would be an effective sort of dealio?

Kommander Strakhov
Devastator
Devastator

Mortar Crew
Mortar Crew

Winter Guard Rifle Corps
Winter Guard Rifle Corps
Winter Guard Rifle Corps

Widowmakers

From the sound of it, lots of covering fire for the Devastators to move up in front of with Strakhov keeping things moving.

How many Points is that?


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Ooooh, if Strakhov is Speed Blitz friendly, maybe feilding some Berserkers would be best....

Maybe Strakhov, two berserkers, a Decimator for Board Control, and then maybe a Behemoth, along with Infantry for fire support.... How would that do?

http://www.forwardkommander.com/

malfred wrote:http://www.forwardkommander.com/

Oooh, thank ye.

I'm confused though, I have Strakhov, two Berserkers, and a Decimator in the List, but it's only saying that's 15 Points, when on the list it says 6, 6, 6, 9, respectively

Slarg232 wrote:

malfred wrote:http://www.forwardkommander.com/

Oooh, thank ye.

I'm confused though, I have Strakhov, two Berserkers, and a Decimator in the List, but it's only saying that's 15 Points, when on the list it says 6, 6, 6, 9, respectively

Warcasters doesn't cost points, they have "jack points", basically a free points they must spend on warjacks in their battle group. Also don't use Berserkers, they are horrible.
Now on to lists - Gunlines doesn't work in Warmachine/Hordes, well some Cygnar lists can come close but Khador definitely can't pull it off. Problem is that while you can shoot infantry relatively easy you won't be able to do much to opponent jack/beast apart from lightly wounding them (well OK, Winter Guard Deathstar can do quite a lot damage, but it's very short-ranged).
Moreover, Strakhov is melee caster first and foremost. You generally want at least one good melee jack with him (Beast 09 works best due to combination of reach and good stats), since combination of his spells Superiority and Overrun (and his feat) can catapult one jack ridiculous distances. Also his feat increases charge range of all models, so he generally prefers melee infantry to ranged one as well. Only ranged buff he has is Sentry, and even then he usually doesn't have spare focus to use it.
The good news is that new Khador caster who is coming out later this month (Kommander Harkevich) seems to like ranged warjacks. We don't know his exact rules yet but he comes out June 15th so I advise you wait a bit for him.

Really? I was thinking that because they are apparantly usable without Focus, (not that I know what that means....), they could effectively be considered free 'Jacks, and if Strakhov is all about getting his 'Jacks into combat, and Berserkers are all about being in combat.

Mucking about with the thing Malfred linked, I came up with this:

Strakhov

Berserker
Berserker
Destroyer

Assault Kommandos
Winter Guard Mortar Crew
Widowmaker Marksman OR Guard Dog, not sure yet.

25 pts exactly

How would that do?

Problem is that without focus and MAT5 they will have hard time hitting most thing that aren't Khador jacks and with P+S16 they have hard time damaging things they can hit. They are only worth using with the pair of caster (pVald and Kharchev) and even then they are a questionable choice, and they are horrible with other casters. Sure you could Superiority on one of them but that would be just wasting potential. Superiority should be used for making already great jack fantastic instead making gimped jack usable.

And with Strakhov you want melee units - Great Bears of Gallowswood, Iron Fang Pikeman, Kayazy Assassins, Doom Reavers. Sure a mortar or better yet some Widowmakers fro infatry clearing is good but focus should be melee.
Also sadly Assault Kommandos are really bad unit (worse Khador unit really) and definitely advise new players against using it for. And Strakhov doesn't really do anything for them (apart from giving Pathfinder).

Ok, fair enough. Hmmm, going to want to wait for Harkevich just to know more of what I'm getting into, more options are always a plus.

Strakhov is a Melee ONLY guy, or at least very heavily focused on Melee with little for shooting?

Who would be the Best Warcaster for what I am trying to do; Melee Jacks with shooty Infantry?

Edit: Oh, Wardog; good choice for Strakhov, since they are both Hit and Run?

Slarg232 wrote:Edit: Oh, Wardog; good choice for Strakhov, since they are both Hit and Run?

Stakhov isn't Hit & Run really, he's more Run & Hit, he can basically can speed his army up significantly but it require exposing him (since you nee to get enemy models in your control area for his feat to work), Occultation is also helpful to keep some model safe before they reach enemy.
That said Wardog is great with any Khador caster and he's only one point. The biggest advantage Wardog gives is not his Countercharge/Hit & Run abilities (which is nice too) but the fact that it gives +2DEF against melee attacks and immunity to free strikes. Since Strakhov need to expose himself during his feat turn any defensive measure helps.

Slarg232 wrote:Who would be the Best Warcaster for what I am trying to do; Melee Jacks with shooty Infantry?

I would Say pVlad (Vladimir, the Dark Prince), since he has spell Sings And Portents which effectively buffs all his army. There are also both Irusks and eSorcha, who are pretty good at running infantry heavy forces with decent amount of shooting, however all these caster usually run only one or 2 jacks.

Ok, thanks

So, how good is Fenris, is he worth taking alone, and how would this list work?

Strakhov
-Wardog
-Juggernaught
-Destroyer
Fenris
Assault Kommandos (leader + Five Grunts)
Widowmakers (Leader + three Grunts)


If that isn't good, what would you recommend for a 25 pt army? Preferably with Strakhov, but not required.

If you want to include Berserkers in your list, definately go with pVlad. Signs and Portents buffs up your Berserkers so you don't have to put focus on them (since, you know, they might explode).

That being said, Berserkers are a hilariously fun way to get Warcasters. Load them up with focus, and pop your feat. They get to charge for free. They come out swinging, then have the chance to explode at the end of your turn!

Personally, I like Berserkers - I see them as very cheap beatsticks that can turn into bombs when you need them to. Before dismissing them completely, I'd advise getting plenty of play experience with them, even if you have to proxy by buying a pack of 5 empty 50mm bases and using them as warjacks.
I'd give the same advice for anything in the game, really - proxy it and find out for yourself if it sucks before you leave it out of your lists forever.

On Strakhov - he likes anything and everything that has reach on their melee weapons, really. It helps tons with his feat turn, because his feat gives +4" of movement and Pathfinder to anything in his army that's charging something in his 12" control range. The reach on melee weapons means that these charges are effectively at an extra 6" of movement, because Reach means you have a 2" melee range.
It's possible to have Beast 09 charging 21" (if I remember correctly) on Strakhov's feat turn, if you did everything right. Also, I've found that Strakhov is very much a utility caster, and likes to have other things pull off the assassination for him - he can do it, but he's not the greatest at melee that there ever was.
For warjacks, take a look at Beast 09 and the Spriggan, which both have reach weapons.

On the War Dog: he's awesome at only 1 point, and I find him useful for filling out lists if I'm a point short. Sometimes it's worth fitting him in right from the start, and Strakhov loves his war dog for that extra +2 DEF in melee.

On list-building: If you have an Android or iPhone, look up the free app "iBodger" - it has complete and correct point values for everything in the game and is updated regularly by the creator.

Truth is, I just really like Strakhov's model, and that's what I have been basing it off of (not to mention that he is about getting in close with a face beater army.)

Also, what's so special about Epic Warcasters? Can they only be used at a certain points cost?

Strakhov does look pretty awesome.

Epic warcasters are just like their regular counterparts - the only difference being that due to events in their storylines, they've gone "epic". This means that they have different spells and abilities, but they're still the same person.

You can use epic warcasters just like normal ones, at any point cost. I think the only caveat is that you cannot have two warcasters of the same name in larger(100+) point games. So regular Butcher and epic Butcher can't tag-team together in a game.

Sweet, so they actually try to advance the plotline instead of just leaving it at the same thing edition after edition.

Also, I will take the Proxy-ing to heart and try stuff before I buy it. Thanks for reminding me about that, as sad as that sounds.

I know it's not going to sound "fluffy" of me, but do Khadors have to be Crimson? I prefer my armies to be Tin with Silver Trimming, though if it's not a "Create your own Army" type of deal I can definately see with sticking to Blood.

Slarg232 wrote:Sweet, so they actually try to advance the plotline instead of just leaving it at the same thing edition after edition.

They do not "try", they really advance the storyline of the entire (known) world with every expansion published. The current map of Iron Kingdoms looks quite different from the one from first edition "Prime". And the rules of certain models reflect that - like pDeneghra / eDeneghra / pHaley / eHaley. If you know one of the published in NQ stories you know exactly what happened when the twin sisters met, why Deneghra became undead and Haley got her mechanical arm.

Slarg232 wrote:I know it's not going to sound "fluffy" of me, but do Khadors have to be Crimson? I prefer my armies to be Tin with Silver Trimming, though if it's not a "Create your own Army" type of deal I can definately see with sticking to Blood.

In WM/H it's totally up to you what colours you use for your army. Khadoran red is only PP's "iconic style" for that faction. Even in main rulebook there're different colour schemes shown.

There were also some cool galleries in Escalation. And the No Quarter Magazine (PP's equivilant to White Dwarf) often have alternative paint scheme tutorials and the like.

Common things I've seen with Khador:

Grey and red decorations.

"Soviet" olive green coloring for the warjacks to make them have a USSR tank look.

Snow white winter themed stuff is pretty common with Irusk, Sorscha, and Winterguard I've ntoiced.

This is just Khador. And again, its up to you in the end. So your plans to do that will do just fine. Notice the extreme Devastator has a grey paint scheme to it, actually? THat's part of that sort of thing.

And stuff.

Hmmmm, my family, whom I was hoping to get into this with, decided they didn't like it (couldn't find a Faction they liked the models of), So I'm not sure if I will be playing this at all

Still think I'm getting Strakhov at least, if not just getting my own little army of it going for when I go to college/move out


HOWEVER! My dad did give me an AWESOME idea for a new Skirmish game The coolest thing about it is that I already have a background worked out for it. I'mma starting a thread for it over in the Skirmish area, to see if people like the concept (because I can get the basics up by myself really easily).

Slarg232 wrote:Hmmmm, my family, whom I was hoping to get into this with, decided they didn't like it (couldn't find a Faction they liked the models of), So I'm not sure if I will be playing this at all

Still think I'm getting Strakhov at least, if not just getting my own little army of it going for when I go to college/move out


HOWEVER! My dad did give me an AWESOME idea for a new Skirmish game The coolest thing about it is that I already have a background worked out for it. I'mma starting a thread for it over in the Skirmish area, to see if people like the concept (because I can get the basics up by myself really easily).

Sadness. :( However, have fun painting up Strakhov. He's a fantastic model. Goggles and 'nade launcher and knife, booyah.

malfred wrote:The "nothing but guns" 'jack option for Khador is the Behemoth.



But if you want extreme sized guns, then converting an Extremoth might be for you.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4026/4361496512_f06338aac6.jpg

Thanks for the photo choice!-Cataclysmus

Hey, wait a second; going through the Mercenaries list, I saw that Magnus the Warlord was tortured by a Skorne dude. But Skorne is Hordes....

Can you mix and match games?!

Slarg232 wrote:Hey, wait a second; going through the Mercenaries list, I saw that Magnus the Warlord was tortured by a Skorne dude. But Skorne is Hordes....

Can you mix and match games?!

Ummm... well, duh. It's a one game with two slightly different halves. Nobody plays exclusively Warmachine or exclusively Hordes, all tournament allow both too.