Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

whats the best way to set up my battle wagon to make it most effective?
please give reasons why and tactics.

thanks

It really depends on what you're wanting to do with it. That said, the most "efficient" build seems to be some sort of variant of this:

Red Paint Job
Deff Roller
1-2 Big Shootas

Optional: Armor Plates and Grot Riggers

That gives you the full advantage of transporting 20 Boyz (preferably Shootas, but hey, the Slugga Boys are cheap as chips, so I understand), a 13" ram that will hopefully seriously injure most vehicles, and a handful of ablative weapons to help prevent immobilization.

Effectively, you want them cheap and cheerful and able to transport and run over things. Anything else distracts them from what they are best at, in my opinion.

I kit with deffrolla and 2 big shootas at the minimum. I will take rpj if i have the points (mine have red flames so sometimes it is for rpj sometimes it is decorative flames)

armor plates and grot riggers are useful as well and I will definatly admit to sometimes throwing ard case on them, but only for specific lists in general do not do this.

so for general use i agree with badtoof

I would say to at least consider the kannon. For 5 more points than a big shoota, you get a Marine missile launcher effectively. You have a single S8 shot to aim at armor, or you can use the S4 blast as a defensive weapon in combination with a big shoota to deal with infantry. Note that you should never buy rokkits unless you've already got a kannon, as the kannon is the same cost for more functionality.

I am a fan of grot riggers and extra armor, but they're definitely optional. I like them because they significantly increase the chances of delivering your payload where you need it.

So yeah, mandatory:
RPJ
deffrolla
2 big shootas

optional:
riggers
armor
replace a shoota with a kannon

I take them bare bones

deff rolla
one big shoota

I try to keep everything as low points cost as possible to make room for the boyz

Low cost is better IMHO

Why?
Your AV 14 can deliver D6 s10 hits for around 120 points. So for 360 points (which isnt that big for a 1500 points list) you get your 3 BW that can transport up to 60 boyz.

I kit them like that:
Deffrolla, big shoota, RPJ.

RPJ is optional, but that 1'' can make a difference between you get to that LandRaider, Predator or vindicator or you end up 1 '' short.

I'm planning on building my wagons with deff rollas, red paint and armour plates. I figure it'll make a pretty nice transport that can mulch up any small units that get in my way

Deffrolla, RPJ, Armour Plates, and a Big Shoota. Armour Plates has generally proved (for me at least) to be worth it, keeping the wagon mobile so it can at least ram and tank shock.

I generally prefer to have 2 Big Shootas, but I mostly only get one due to point restrictions. So far, I've not felt the pain of wishing I had bought the second one. That said, Immobilized results generally get negated with both a big mek and grot riggers inside - though it always hurts to be stalled for even a single turn.

I have actually tried a Kannon out, and I was actually quite surprised to see it actually hit and killed stuff!

I usually use a deff rolla, RPJ, Grot riggers and 4 shootas. The first two's tactics have been explained well by above posters, grot riggers are just too useful to pass for 5 points, and the shootas, although not neccessary, are great for mowing down infantry

Pretty much covered but I'll put my (metaphorical top-) hat in. Deff Rolla, Big shoota, Armour Plates, RPJ, Grot Riggers. Worked okay for me when I actually played it right, then again my tactical usage of the Battlewagon has been poor so I've removed the (proxied) vehicle from my lists. But if I had a recommendation then Deff Rolla, Big Shoota and Grot Riggers are what I'd take.

Here's why I'm not a huge fan of the Riggers:

If you get immobilized, you're guaranteed to miss at least a turn of movement while your grots get things back up and running. Sure, it's still better than nothing, but even a single turn's delay can be crippling.

If you have the points, by all means, get them! They're cheap and they're useful in and of themselves. They just happen to be one of the first things I cut when trying to save points.

Priority number 1 is a deffrolla for reasons everyone has pointed out...D6 Str10 hits is too juicy to pass up!

After that I would rate as follows:
1 Big Shoota
Armor Plates
Grot Riggas

Most of the other upgrades are purely optional in my opinion...being open topped means your going to get stunned minimum usually which is why the Armor is such a priority in my opinion...the riggas are for when you are thankfully immobilized vs being wrecked or exploded...

I say only 1 BS simply its simply your shield against immobilization...I dont even remember the last time it shot...

Well Id say deffrolla is a priority IF your opponent runs mech. Just because mech is hugely popular this edition doesnt mean your GOING to play against mech. Those deffrolls still grant armor saves, kindda useless if your playing against a foot army.

Ive never used RPJ yet, so personally its just not something I have to have. But Im a minimalist when it comes to my vehicles. Its way to easy to get Ork vehicles blowed up real good, open topped and light armor everywhere. Ill always take 2 bigshootas (unless Im crazy and go nuts on rokkit spam) the bigshootas are to soak up weapon destroyed results, and they are only 5pts a pop, so who cares if they get blown off. And either a deffrolla or a ram, just because I like rushing through terrain, and I always seem to roll a friggin 1 on one of them. And usually 50/50 Ill take riggors on them. Handy little buggers.

KingCracker wrote:Well Id say deffrolla is a priority IF your opponent runs mech. Just because mech is hugely popular this edition doesnt mean your GOING to play against mech. Those deffrolls still grant armor saves, kindda useless if your playing against a foot army.

Too true...Im simply talking in general...
Turns out my main opponent runs nids and eldar so rollas arent too good against him, most others though...certainly!!

If your not gonna take the rollas though I would agree on at least taking a ram....5 pts to reroll a terrain test yeah Ill take that (as I always seem to roll 1s as well!!)

Barkdreg Badtoof wrote:Here's why I'm not a huge fan of the Riggers:

If you get immobilized, you're guaranteed to miss at least a turn of movement while your grots get things back up and running. Sure, it's still better than nothing, but even a single turn's delay can be crippling.

If you have the points, by all means, get them! They're cheap and they're useful in and of themselves. They just happen to be one of the first things I cut when trying to save points.

Fair enough, but it's that very crippling situation that encourages me to keep them in. One turn is bad enough, two is even worse. My Battlewagon is effectively the linchpin in my Ork Advance, so stalling, stalls my advance. Want to keep that thing moving, and get it to recover from immobilized results. Of course, if you have Big Mek inside, that's a 50% chance to negate it without riggers - but I prefer to have that 75% chance to negate it with both a Big Mek and Grot Riggers.

Thanks everyone for replying.

so what i am getting from this is:

deffrollas are a must
armour plates, grot riggers ,at least 1 big shooter and red paint job all follow after that depending on the points (not in that order btw)

what is everyones opinion on ard case as a uprade?

bigfish wrote:what is everyones opinion on ard case as a uprade?

Are you going to uses it as a transport? If so 'ard Case is a no go.

Open topped means you can move 12" deploy 2" from any point (run if this is a warg!) and Assault 6". If you take the 'ard Case then you've got disembark at the beginning of the movement phase if you want to assault.

Tri wrote: Open topped means you can move 12" deploy 2" from any point (run if this is a warg!) and Assault 6". If you take the 'ard Case then you've got disembark at the beginning of the movement phase if you want to assault.

with mine i am transporting a mek with KFF and burna in a unit of shoota boys with big shoota. so even if i cant assult i am still shooting reguardless, and the meks KFF and ard case together should mean my boys and wagon should
1) get to where i want them alive
and
2) dont get killed off in the turn they disembark.
then the battle wagon can go off and do its own thing and the boys can do there own thing as well.

Thats the theory anyway.

Open Topped means that (a) Units can assault after disembarking, (b) ALL units inside the vehicle can shoot out from any point of the hull, (c) explosions only cause Str3 hits on those inside, (d) +1 to damage table rolls against the battlewagon.

Getting 'Ard Case makes the Battlewagon more survivable, but it hinders its ability as a fast-delivery transport and/or a mobile weapons platform. With 'Ard Case, ONLY ONE guy inside can shoot out.

Remember, though, that if the Battlewagon moves more than 6" (7" with RPJ), no one inside can shoot - though they can disembark, then shoot.

'Ard Case is good if you just want to have a mobile fortress, or if you don't mind that your guys getting out can't assault the turn they get out - they'll be quite vulnerable, though.

Remember, the KFF only grants a 5+ cover save to nearby infantry.

If you ask me, the only time you put Ard Case on a vehicle is when you also stick a boomgun on it

bigfish wrote:

Tri wrote: Open topped means you can move 12" deploy 2" from any point (run if this is a warg!) and Assault 6". If you take the 'ard Case then you've got disembark at the beginning of the movement phase if you want to assault.

with mine i am transporting a mek with KFF and burna in a unit of shoota boys with big shoota. so even if i cant assult i am still shooting reguardless, and the meks KFF and ard case together should mean my boys and wagon should
1) get to where i want them alive
and
2) dont get killed off in the turn they disembark.
then the battle wagon can go off and do its own thing and the boys can do there own thing as well.

Thats the theory anyway.

Ah and that's ignoring the other failing of 'ard case. You only get 5 fire-points, 2 to each side and one at the rear. Which is bad when shooting out ... really bad for burners as only two can normally shoot.

Leave the hood down then 15 burnas can all place their template on top of each others. Best time I've seen it done was against another orks green tided, he managed to clip 12 of them ... 180 hits. Managed to wipe out nearly a 100 of them.

In your case you could get out (at the front) shoot and then assault.

Though you might want to try 'ard Case on Nob Troop wagons. I run my two with 'ard case (granted, my wagons are a bit odd- one's a Fire support with no Rolla, but lotz and lotz of guns, the other's the opposite, tooled up with all the CC bells and whistles, but no guns) and just leave the Nobz or Meganobz inside. You'd be surprised what 2 twin-linked Shootas can do, and you can always Kombi-weapon out the fire-point. Then, if the wagon gets blown up, the Nobz inside can then Assault (or be assaulted, depending on what blew up the wagon- with a KFF and 'ard case, it's probably going to be CC attacks against rear armour) It's served me pretty well, and I like not having that extra +1 on the chart.

But yeah, try it once or twice (but never on wagons you intend to assault out of) and see how you like it.

I've personally found an 'ard case a waste of points. Why should I pay points for making my vehicle a worse transport?

Keep them bare bones imo, deffrolla. Armor plates maybe to keep it moving.
Think maybe Manchu crunched some math on the RPJ and found it to be a waste of points.

Agreed on RPJ. Sure its only 5pts, but even without it you can hit the enemy line on turn 2 most times anyways. I never take RPJ ever, its just not worth it for me

Kharrak wrote:
Remember, the KFF only grants a 5+ cover save to nearby infantry.

and obscured on vehicles giving the wagon a 4+ cover save.


But alright then, i think i ill make mine so it has a ard case but its detachable then. just because much prefer the look of the ard case tbh.

thanks everyone for there comments and advice, very helpfull

I have a quick question regarding BW upgrades and weapon destroyed results. Do offensive upgrades such as deffrollas, grabbin' klaws and wrecking balls count as weapons, or is it only shooting weapons with a "standard" profile such as big shootas that count as weapons on a vehicle and therefore can be destroyed by weapon destroyed results?

Bonde wrote:I have a quick question regarding BW upgrades and weapon destroyed results. Do offensive upgrades such as deffrollas, grabbin' klaws and wrecking balls count as weapons, or is it only shooting weapons with a "standard" profile such as big shootas that count as weapons on a vehicle and therefore can be destroyed by weapon destroyed results?

I know the deffrolla cannot be destroyed since it is a hull upgrade (takes the place of Ram). I think it is the same for the wrecking ball and grabbing klaw. Someone can confirm or unconfirm that??

Serder wrote:

Bonde wrote:I have a quick question regarding BW upgrades and weapon destroyed results. Do offensive upgrades such as deffrollas, grabbin' klaws and wrecking balls count as weapons, or is it only shooting weapons with a "standard" profile such as big shootas that count as weapons on a vehicle and therefore can be destroyed by weapon destroyed results?

I know the deffrolla cannot be destroyed since it is a hull upgrade (takes the place of Ram). I think it is the same for the wrecking ball and grabbing klaw. Someone can confirm or unconfirm that??

.... While I do think that many of the offensive upgrades, such as the deff rolla, do fall under the catagary of acting like a weapon the problem is there is no finite list so anything could count. This means that most people stick to ordinary weapons.

Or rather, most people stick to their Gunns.

See what I did there?

I think it's a terrible lack of foresight on GW's part that they didn't classify weapons as 'anything that does damage and is not integral to the base model'. Sure it means my Deffrollas can be destroyed, but hey, it also means that I could remove the Wrekin' ball as well before being immobilized on a 3.