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while I was watching an interview from a dev from the Warhammer 40k Space Marine game, I noticed that he said Space Marines are the Protectors or main thing that is preventing humanity from being annihilated

I thought that was the job of the Imperial Guard; I mean the Guard does most of the battles and stuff and its the Imperial Guard at the Cadian Gate that is watching over the eye of terror

The Guard have a lot of man power, but a Space Marine is equivalent to MANY enemies. A chapter holding 1000 space marines can hold almost anything it wants to.

What GW tells us in blanket throw away statements directly contradicts everything that we know of The Space Marines and the Imperial Guard.

The Guard do almost everything, they hold the Imperium together.
Space Marines hit the big things.

Guard have the ability to be everywhere and fight on every side, while space marines are able to defeat the most difficult enemies or objectives, but are limited by their size.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:The Guard have a lot of man power, but a Space Marine is equivalent to MANY enemies. A chapter holding 1000 space marines can hold almost anything it wants to.

Unless they are Imperial Fists in the movie 'Ultramarines"; sons a bitches got ownt HARD!


But Guard and marines defend the Imperium just marines get more credit on account GW wants to sell more of them. The day Marines don't get all credit and glory is the day they want to slow down on the number of marines being sold.

I would say the degree of 'defender-ness' depends on the Chapter. Some apparently have a contempt for unaugmented humans that borders on hatred. Others, namely the Salamanders, actually are defenders of humanity.

Ronin-Sage wrote:I would say the degree of 'defender-ness' depends on the Chapter. Some apparently have a contempt for unaugmented humans that borders on hatred.

Care to explain/define which chapters? Just curious...

Varrick wrote:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:The Guard have a lot of man power, but a Space Marine is equivalent to MANY enemies. A chapter holding 1000 space marines can hold almost anything it wants to.

Unless they are Imperial Fists in the movie 'Ultramarines"; sons a bitches got ownt HARD!


But Guard and marines defend the Imperium just marines get more credit on account GW wants to sell more of them. The day Marines don't get all credit and glory is the day they want to slow down on the number of marines being sold.

Pretty sure they were owned by chaos space marines so it was on equal terms. I like to think of guard as the shield and marines the sword. You want a line held bring guard you want a line taken drop a some marines on them

SM are the main selling range of GW so they take every opportunity to promote them.

Kilkrazy wrote:SM are the main selling range of GW so they take every opportunity to promote them.

No.

From the very beginning of Warhammer 40000, the Space Marines are the Protectors of Humanity. But as they don't have the numbers they once had, they are now used to kill any enemy that regular guys can't comprehend.

As for the Guard... Guard is made to wage wars, expand and defend Imperium. But they even they cannot win every battle, kill every alien leader. Marines are used in tough battles, drop-pod into enemy base, kill enemy leader and them move on while Guard is finishing the job. Marines are also used in fighting Chaos Daemons extensively. Guard cannot do that because Guardsman would all turn over to Chaos. Guard cannot comprehend Necron rise, or even combat them as Marines can. Guard can't fight Eldar on their terms as Eldar are to fast for them to comprehend, again it is the Marines who fight Eldar much more effective them Guard.
And, don't forget that Marines don't answer to High Lords of Terra. They are independent fighting force defending Imperium at it's most important battles since the end of the heresy. Guard are protecting Imperum to, but Space Marines are more regarded because of their image. After all - they are the chosen warriors of the Emperor. They inspire Guardsman when they are fighting near them and they can kill almost every large Daemon or alien monster in the galaxy. And if you read the books, you would see that when Space Marines are fighting to ordinary man appears like mere seconds have passed and Marines have killed large number of enemies. They are mostly called that because they appear in the most desperate situations, save the day in an instant and them go away.

Because of that they are the Protectors of Humanity.

At the start of 40k marines were convicts in armour...

Even now they aren't exactly the paragons of virtue they are made out to be...

Several chapters feel no compassion with those they protect and a few simply don't care about the casualties they inflict. Other chapters care deeply about the citizens of the Imperium and die fighting to protect them.

I can understand why they don't feel compassion for them...
Marines are apart from humanity, they serve a society they can never truly be a part of or completely understand. It's quite tragic really.
Other chapters see humans differently and so they feel more compassion for them but they are still a symbol of the might of the Emperor and cannot show their humanity.

All in all it differs from chapter to chapter but by and large they protect the Imperium as best they can but they are not what keeps the Imperium together. The Guard die so the Imperium stay whole, they fight any heretic or xenos and they will die for their Emperor and the Imperium just as marines will.

loner wrote:

Ronin-Sage wrote:I would say the degree of 'defender-ness' depends on the Chapter. Some apparently have a contempt for unaugmented humans that borders on hatred.

Care to explain/define which chapters? Just curious...

Hm, I should correct that statement. The former is mostly based on speculation, but Marines Malevolent, as portrayed in the first Salamanders book are...not the nicest guys in the galaxy.

Ronin-Sage wrote:

loner wrote:

Ronin-Sage wrote:I would say the degree of 'defender-ness' depends on the Chapter. Some apparently have a contempt for unaugmented humans that borders on hatred.

Care to explain/define which chapters? Just curious...

Hm, I should correct that statement. The former is mostly based on speculation, but Marines Malevolent, as portrayed in the first Salamanders book are...not the nicest guys in the galaxy.

No there are a few others...
Iron Hands, although they aren't hiomicidal they don't do compassion...
The Star Phantoms also have an infamous reputation for higher than average civilian casualties...

I'll concede that the Guard does far more of the actual protecting, but even within the Imperium, the Space Marines get all the glory. The guard goes in to engage in long, drawn out wars of attrition, sometimes against segments of the population of the planet they are fighting on. The marines only come in (generally speaking) when the doo-doo has already hit the proverbial fan.

So, imagine you're a citizen on some Imperial world, experiencing troubles. A whole bunch (thousands, maybe millions) of regular old people show up (people you've never met) and take over your cities, drain your resources, and fight a war which is destroying your planet. They might even be killing your own people, maybe your family and friends. Sure, they say plausible excuses about things like 'genestealers' and 'cultists' but do they ever show you any evidence of it? Hell no. They probably don't even give you a reason. They may even supress your government, just to make their own lives easier.

On the other hand, when the giant bugs show up, or the demons rampaging down Main Street, suddenly a new bunch of guys arrive. They blast out of the sky in giant torpedos, leap out, guns a-blazing, and take the fight directly to the enemy in just the way that those thousands of regular Joe's didn't. They are ten foot tall behemoths, wielding giant weapons that spit explosive armor penetrating bullets, huge laser cannons that they can heft with one hand. They are Monster Trucks that walk like men. And when the big nasty monsters are all dead, these heroes disappear as quickly as they arrived, asking for and taking nothing in exchange for what they've done.

Who do you like more? Who do you think the Imperium is going to view as it's "protectors?" I'm not saying the guard doesn't put in work, I'm just saying human nature, especially as it relates to public perception, doesn't change much, even in 38,000 years.

loner wrote:

Ronin-Sage wrote:I would say the degree of 'defender-ness' depends on the Chapter. Some apparently have a contempt for unaugmented humans that borders on hatred.

Care to explain/define which chapters? Just curious...

The "Nice guys" of record are:

The Ultramarines. Based on a 'Roman Empire' style, the Ultramarines break threats, then rebuild them as loyal members of society. They don't just conquer worlds, they *absorb* them, making them a part of the Empire of Humanity and show them a better life than they had before, earning their loyalty and trust.

The Rainbow Warriors. Long known as the 'hippie peaceniks' of Space Marines, they have some ideas that border on blasphemy but, when called on, are some of the feircest foes of chaos to be found. Known to have positive contact with the Eldar.

The Salamanders. As noted above, have earned a reputation of actively protecting people, rather than just Exterminating to make certain that the bad guys go down. Have come to blows with other, more contemptuous chapters.

Keep in mind, here, that "nice guys" is very much a relative term. The Sons of Medusa, for example, are chaos-fighters in Pacifica sector (Indeed, all of the 'nice' chapters seem to be there) who have a serious mad-on for mutants and those who harbor them. By *our* standards, they're racist jerks, but compared to, say, the Space Wolves, they'd take a bullet for a human. Of course, you also have the Dark Angels, who are creepy and mysterious and perfectly willing to eradicate an entire planet to make sure humanity survives. They're doing the 'hard thing' in order to defend humanity, no matter how horrible it seems. Greater Good and all that. Most wouldn't class them as nice guys due to this, but, they have noble goals, even if the path is littered with the dead.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:The Guard have a lot of man power, but a Space Marine is equivalent to MANY enemies. A chapter holding 1000 space marines can hold almost anything it wants to.

Unless the navy decides to bombard them from orbit.

Sure, a space marine might be worth 20 guardsmen. Or even 100. but Guard regularly deploys in waves of hundreds of thousands to millions at a time anyway. The guard deploys more power than an entire chapter holds on a regular basis.



Marines are but a tiny, infinitesimal fraction of the total power to prosecute war that the Imperium of Man has.

Honestly I think if the Astartes didn't exist, the Imperium could survive. The same is certainly not true with the Imperial Guard.

I mean, it'd be a far less easier existence and wars would be bloodier, more systems lost, etc.. The possible exception to this rule are probably the Grey Knights, who seem pretty vital.

Melissia wrote:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:The Guard have a lot of man power, but a Space Marine is equivalent to MANY enemies. A chapter holding 1000 space marines can hold almost anything it wants to.

Unless the navy decides to bombard them from orbit.

Sure, a space marine might be worth 20 guardsmen. Or even 100. but Guard regularly deploys in waves of hundreds of thousands to millions at a time anyway. The guard deploys more power than an entire chapter holds on a regular basis.

This is true it is rare for marines to be deployed in a different way then just dropping on top of the enemies toughest units and cutting the head of their army off any other way would be less effective. Thus both are complementing each other the Imperium IMHO would be lost without both. The guard do more work though

Someone calculated it...
There are enough Guard Infantry to literally crush every single marine. (Something like 2500 kilograms for each SM)

PresidentOfAsia wrote:I thought that was the job of the Imperial Guard; I mean the Guard does most of the battles and stuff and its the Imperial Guard at the Cadian Gate that is watching over the eye of terror

The Cadian gate was taken at the end of the thirteenth black crusade. Cadia is filled with war bands and renegades, while one of the planets is just a waste land.

That's what I read in White dwarf a few years back.

Majarlischi wrote:

PresidentOfAsia wrote:I thought that was the job of the Imperial Guard; I mean the Guard does most of the battles and stuff and its the Imperial Guard at the Cadian Gate that is watching over the eye of terror

The Cadian gate was taken at the end of the thirteenth black crusade. Cadia is filled with war bands and renegades, while one of the planets is just a waste land.

That's what I read in White dwarf a few years back.

And for what it's worth, there were - I believe - thirteen separate chapters founded just to keep an eye on the Cadian Gate. It ain't just Cadia defending the only stable route out of the Eye.

I think they're to some extent trying to give the Space Wolves a "protectors of humanity" feel in their codex...at least that's the impression I got from the description of what happened after the first Armageddon War. That said, I don't know if the SW would actually go out of their way to protect civilians, or that they just happened to be in the right place at the right time when that particular incident happened.

Wakshaani wrote:
The Rainbow Warriors. Long known as the 'hippie peaceniks' of Space Marines, they have some ideas that border on blasphemy but, when called on, are some of the feircest foes of chaos to be found. Known to have positive contact with the Eldar.

Rainbow Warriors?! That doesn't sound GRIMDARK to me...
Apperently they did exist...
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Rainbow_Warriors

Yeah, that gave me a serious laugh.
_________________
About the Space Mariinz- IG:

While the Guard can defend planets as good as SM, the SM are needed for missions that even tons of guard wouldnt succeed in, but SM can. So yes, SM are the Protectors of Mankind. Except the Ultras. They are 'The Protectors of Ulthramar!'

loner wrote:

Wakshaani wrote:
The Rainbow Warriors. Long known as the 'hippie peaceniks' of Space Marines, they have some ideas that border on blasphemy but, when called on, are some of the feircest foes of chaos to be found. Known to have positive contact with the Eldar.

Rainbow Warriors?! That doesn't sound GRIMDARK to me...
Apperently they did exist...
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Rainbow_Warriors

AYup! They don't get mentioned very often (for obvious reasons) but are out there.

Pacifica Segmentum is the smallest of the four 'expansions', the most peaceful, and, well, the most boring. It's where the Rainbow Warriors are probably at, the Salamanders are at the edge of, and the anti-mutant Sons of Medusa run around in, purging beastmen that look like they once thought about maybe talking to something that could have once passed by something Chaos-y. Obscurus has the Eye of Terror and, thus, is always active. Ultima Segmentum is frakkin' 'uge, filled with all KINDS of stuff and is generally the center of any non-Chaos activity, while Tempestus is second-smallest but has traffic with Tyrannid and a couple of Ork worlds.

I'm not sure where the Necrons are located en mass. There's an Old World here and there, but no real 'Necron Galaxy' yet.

...

Yet.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g60/Driseamail/40k/galaxy_db-1.jpg
(The map, to make life easy.)

Majarlischi wrote:

PresidentOfAsia wrote:I thought that was the job of the Imperial Guard; I mean the Guard does most of the battles and stuff and its the Imperial Guard at the Cadian Gate that is watching over the eye of terror

The Cadian gate was taken at the end of the thirteenth black crusade. Cadia is filled with war bands and renegades, while one of the planets is just a waste land.

That's what I read in White dwarf a few years back.

Cadia wasn't taken...
The planet is aprox. 60% in Chaos hands and the Space surrounding Cadia is almost totally in Imperial hands.
Though GW did a bit of fiddling to make it that way... go figure they didn't want to have to write something vaguely difficult.

I have to agree with Purplefood on this subject, the Guard does most of the fighting, but if you read the books SM are the ones destroying everything in their path with little Deaths. Yea sure some die, the weaker Sm. Probably a SM that just got threw this Initiations and just received all his implants and was just recently taken into the chapter. Then you have some of the Vet thats are killed, Well the Xenos have to get lucky sometimes. lol

On the Good SM and bad SM, you have to look at their primarchs. Their history, their linage. You have the Black templars which are a very zealous Chapter, but wont turn down helping a Civilian and wont taken Civilian Casualty lightly. Look at Armageddon, The battle for helsreach. Many templars Died saving humans.

But then you got say the Dark Angels. Who knows whats up their Arse.

But over all i think Harriticus hit it on the spot. Yes the imperium could survive without the Astarte's. But the toll would be much higher. Because just when that Guardsmen line is about to break because their Commissar just got his head blown off. The Astarte's wouldn't be landing to turn the tide, so the line would break.

Shoopaloop wrote:But then you got say the Dark Angels. Who knows whats up their Arse.

Read the Dark Angels codex and you will understand why they care little for civilians. And also why they are incredible self involved! Its supposedly "there darkest secret".

loner wrote:

Ronin-Sage wrote:I would say the degree of 'defender-ness' depends on the Chapter. Some apparently have a contempt for unaugmented humans that borders on hatred.

Care to explain/define which chapters? Just curious...

Good guy chapters have been stated. Bad guy ones are out there too.

Dark Angels: As someone said already.
Red Scorpions: They hate all abhumans to the point where they rarely fight along side guardsmen at all. They refuse to send their gene seed in for study. But obviously they're "pure."
Minotaurs: They're just a bit off. Kinda crazy to the point where other chapters really don't like them at all.
Space Sharks: More of an unknown, and closer to berzerkers that normal space marines. They don't show up very often, hardly "defenders of humanity."
I can't really think of any more off the top of my head, although I know they're out there ...FW really likes the bad guy chapters don't they.