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I'm sure someone out there can clarify this for me and my fellow gamers...

The SM codex lists tactical marines as having both a bolt pistol and a bolter... Now, I have NEVER seen a tactical marine with both weapons. In fact, i don't think I've ever seen one opting to take a bolt pistol at all (obviously I'm not talking about the sergeant of the squad here). Does the codex intend to mean that the tactical marine can choose which of these it takes as an option, or that it always takes both? Also, in gaming terms, can a squad of tactical marines move forward, fire bolt pistols, and then charge? I'm confused here people.. Please enlighten me..

This was a change in the new Codex.
Vanilla tac marines are indeed armed with a bolt pistol and a boltgun.
And yes, this means you can choose to fire the bolt pistol rather than the bolter and charge in the ensuing assault phase.

Yes, they have both weapons. Yes, you not only can choose which to fire - you must since models can only fire one weapon unless otherwise noted.

The reason you don't see pistols is that the marine boxes don't really have enough, and no one is gluing on those holsters anyway. It's standard equipment and no one can demand it's shown on the models.

Thankyou for the clarity.

Forum WIN!
Ambiguity FAIL!

Except it not ambiguous. :lol:

Fluff wise the 'pistol' shot could be one shot from a bolter on the move - not a stand and spray like rapid fire but rather representative of the versatility of the bolter to a tactical marine as in essence that is what you'd be doing.

Also an Astarte has the strength and skill to weild a bolter with one hand so it could be that the marine is charging in with a knife and bolt gun

its more the fact the bolter has a pistol grip rather then a rifle grip.


but yes, many people missed this little gem in the codex when 1st released(some still are unaware)


its especially valuable against orks where you often have the choice between firing your bolters and taking a charge, or assaulting the orks. you shoot the pistols and assault the orks for a decent chance at winning.

shame they dont have CC weapons as well as bolter and bolt pistol like CSM do.

Wow! I remember answering this exact same thread 2 years ago.

Back in the day, a Marine could shoot one shot from his bolter and charge, or rapid fire 2 shoots and had to stay put. To give this functionality back to Marines in the current edition since the way Boltguns worked changed in the previous edition, they were issued Bolt Pistols.

SJ

Tactical Space marines have always had bolt guns and bolt pistols since there have been tac squads 1st ed. The change is that they no longer carry combat blades. What soldier doesn't carry a knife?

Andrew - they had abolter and chainsword in 4th.

which was pointless as a single CCW doesn't do anything special.


but there was a Chapter Trait which let Tactical squads swap their bolters for bolt pistols.

I really miss those chapter traits, I only kind of like the new way they diversify chapters.

Or you gave them true grit, making their bolters act as a CCW in CC. So much better than swapping it out for a pistol.

Oh and to answer your question andrew, a super one.

They still have combat knives but they aren't close combat weapons. Their name comes from Dekkar Combat, the explorator who discovered the STC for them.

Raxmei wrote:They still have combat knives but they aren't close combat weapons. Their name comes from Dekkar Combat, the explorator who discovered the STC for them.

... And not because they are used in combat

Much like how the STC for the Land raider and Land Speeder where found by one Arkhand Land; and not because it is a descriptive term for what they do(which it totally is)

Leman Russ, and Macharius tanks are honorifics having nothing to do with who found the STCs; 'cause in the 41st millennium naming conventions are completely dumb: you only get to name your discovery if your name has something to do with it's function already.

Kommissar Kel wrote:Much like how the STC for the Land raider and Land Speeder where found by one Arkhand Land; and not because it is a descriptive term for what they do(which it totally is)

Leman Russ, and Macharius tanks are honorifics having nothing to do with who found the STCs; 'cause in the 41st millennium naming conventions are completely dumb: you only get to name your discovery if your name has something to do with it's function already.

In the grim darkness of the far future... There is only a strange way of naming things.

Raxmei wrote:They still have combat knives but they aren't close combat weapons. Their name comes from Dekkar Combat, the explorator who discovered the STC for them.

Did he discover combat drugs too?

Andrew1975 wrote:

Raxmei wrote:They still have combat knives but they aren't close combat weapons. Their name comes from Dekkar Combat, the explorator who discovered the STC for them.

Did he discover combat drugs too?

Wouldnt be surprised if he discovered combat itself.......

Grey Templar wrote:its more the fact the bolter has a pistol grip rather then a rifle grip.

Like a lasgun does? Entirely irrelevant.

Scott-S6 wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:its more the fact the bolter has a pistol grip rather then a rifle grip.

Like a lasgun does? Entirely irrelevant.

Lasguns still have an assault Rifle grip.

Astartes Bolters, excepting for some very few, have the grip at the rear terminus of the gun; and Marines have the Strength to use that to "pistol-whip" their....


You know what I cannot go on any further; the "pistol Grip" on the bolter was the excuse for true grit and how it could count "As a pistol" in close combat. True grit is gone(thankfully) so there is no longer a reason to try and fictionally "explain" how an Assault Rifle grip would be anything, anywhere, anyway at all different from the so-called "pistol grip".

the best part of the lack of True grit now a days ; is that not all astartes had it, which made no sense at all.

DeadlySquirrel wrote:

Andrew1975 wrote:

Raxmei wrote:They still have combat knives but they aren't close combat weapons. Their name comes from Dekkar Combat, the explorator who discovered the STC for them.

Did he discover combat drugs too?

Wouldnt be surprised if he discovered combat itself.......

And that no man could best him in the ring of honor!

Then he used his fight money to buy two of every single animal on earth, then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the gak out of every single one.

Kommissar Kel wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:its more the fact the bolter has a pistol grip rather then a rifle grip.

Like a lasgun does? Entirely irrelevant.

Lasguns still have an assault Rifle grip.
Astartes Bolters, excepting for some very few, have the grip at the rear terminus of the gun; and Marines have the Strength to use that to "pistol-whip" their....

Assault rifle grips are pistol grips, there is no difference. What you are actually arguing is that bolters are different because they have no stock - there is no difference in the grips.

Either way, not relevant to marines carrying a sidearm.

thats definition of an assault rifle. it has a pistol grip instead of a rifle grip.



its perfectly legal to own an AK-47 with a rifle grip in some places because its not an "Assault Rifle"

its just an "Automatic Rifle" at that point.




its also illegal to have a .50cal weapon, but a .51cal is ok

Grey Templar wrote:thats definition of an assault rifle. it has a pistol grip instead of a rifle grip.



its perfectly legal to own an AK-47 with a rifle grip in some places because its not an "Assault Rifle"

its just an "Automatic Rifle" at that point.

This may be an American English versus Queens english, but there is no rifle grip. At least, over here.

Here is the difference,

top is a pistol grip, bottom is a rifle grip(or a rifle configuration, which is more of a lack of pistol grip)

Scott-S6 wrote:

Kommissar Kel wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:its more the fact the bolter has a pistol grip rather then a rifle grip.

Like a lasgun does? Entirely irrelevant.

Lasguns still have an assault Rifle grip.
Astartes Bolters, excepting for some very few, have the grip at the rear terminus of the gun; and Marines have the Strength to use that to "pistol-whip" their....

Assault rifle grips are pistol grips, there is no difference. What you are actually arguing is that bolters are different because they have no stock - there is no difference in the grips.

Either way, not relevant to marines carrying a sidearm.

no what I was actually "arguing" was GW's defense that their is somehow a magic difference.

Also; did you bother to read the rest of my post, and how I couldn't even continue GW's line of reasoning? It's not like I edited all that in later; that was 1 take.

Remember the even with "True Grit" they didn't recieve a bonus attack for charging.