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Sup Gitz!

So I am just starting up a fantasy army, and boy do i mean JUST i really haven't liked fantasy in the past and I doubt i plan to take it as far as my 40k army. Personally I feel that mad scientist feel of the orks in 40k. Yet the soul of the orks in Fantasy is wildly diffrent and almost lack luster compared to the oddball skaven, I am hoping i can be proven wrong when i actually look them over codex and all but so far I am unconvinced.

So I need to say that I am completely new to fantasy I don't know the strengths or tactics of the orks but i love the greenskins so much that I am still willing to give it a try. I'd really like some help reviewing the basic tactics of the greenskins (both goblins and orks) and making the final decision on if it is something I will invest into or not.

Personally the only time i tried to get into fantasy I played dwarves perhaps an edition or so ago and was displeased with the system or at least the results of fighting Vampire counts and their unstoppable skeleton hordes. I heard many things were fixed and some became broke but ultimately i am just hoping for a good review of the system and an honest opinion of them verses other options.

I enjoy it more then 40k. It's requires more strategy and is more balanced. I'm a little confused though are you looking for something like skaven but is greenskin? If so look at a goblin army. They have cool war machines, fanatics, squig action, those giant spiders. You could make a combo goblin/troll army and have a good time with it. The one thing I dislike about greenskins is the bickering but that helps them be cheaper. Or you could wait a few months and see what the new Ogre book gives to gnoblars, perhaps a non white dwarf (see issue 303) all gnoblar army.

Yeah, I realized it was early in the morning. I will repost what i meant here. I LOVE ORKS, i really do but they feel so much different in fantasy to me. They are still real orky but just not as crazy looking to me. You don't have cyborks, or crazy whirly guns, or komandos, lootas or really any flash to them

They look like tolken-like orks to me (shields, spears and weaponry) not alot of ingenius inventions or the like. I know The goblins more or less took the flash of the orcs in this version of warhammer and I am honestly considering them as a spider army but *shrug* it feels overdone even though i haven't played it yet... i just imagine it must be that and wolfriders and boar riders too.

If I am wrong let me know i would LOVE to be wrong. as far as the rules I haven't even been able to make heads or tails of the rulebooks sofar just because i only played a demo of fantasy 4-7 years ago as dwarves and barely remember anything other than cheesy skeletons being badass.

The reason i mentioned the Skaven is they seemed like a REALLY sweet army for looks if nothing else. They have that wild mad scientist look alot of the orks in 40k have they feel the cloest in spirit to me. But ... meh I love orks so much i would feel like I am betraying da boyz! besides from what i understand everyone runs skaven...

I've seen ogre kingdoms, i think they would be interesting but they just feel too strange to play to me despite how strong they were back in the day and I am sure that will return but ... I'm just not an Ogre ya know?

So to wrap up my problem is this... The spirit of the game elludes me, and the tactics of the armies do as well.

Mechanics for Fantasy won't bug me it's just having to push through and play some demos.

The Orks, they feel a little bland to me. How do they normally play in fantasy? Strong, tough and endless attacks like in 40k? or more calvary or something?

Goblins cause similar confusion for me; I think i would enjoy them but i can't bring myself to play little puny grots unless they kick MAJOR ass (despite fighting the urge to name my gretchin in 40k... )

Skaven are really just a shot in the dark to play within my comforts of swarming and having odd little nik-nacs that utterly change gameplay up drastically.

Please if you guys can try and set me straight or give me a few more hints to what a deff head like me would be most satisfied with.

I love the advise so far, just keep it coming ladz

First off, due to the rules of 8th, Boar Boyz suck. They charge in strong, and then sit and wait to die.

The true spirit of the Orcs & Goblins book is taking a mix of both Orcs and Goblins. The Orcs are there to sit in combat and kill the enemy. The Goblins get the cool stuff. The warmachines are fired by goblins. Suicidal Goblins anyone? And Goblins have a spider that's bigger than most, if not all real spiders, not in scale but model to species.

I find animosity to be humbling aspect of the book. Tough troops for cheap, but have a chance of not doing what you want. It was worse than what it is now. You used to have a 1/6 chance of doing nothing, now you have a 1/36 chance of doing nothing.

Fast cavalry is the best kind of cavalry to take. You can use it to annoy the heck out of units, and slowly whittle them.

Mangler Squigs are so much fun! Snotling Pump Wagons can do some decent damage. Suicidal Goblins! If you want a fun model, take the Doom Diver Catapult. It's a Suicidal Goblin that once it scatters, can correct his hit position by D6 inches.

Savage Orcs can be some of the most fun models, most boring units. Savage Orc Boar Boyz can choose to ride without using hand to get extra attacks. Plus the models look amazing, if expensive.

The big difference between Orcs&Goblins and Skaven is that Skaven expect to kill their own guys with their warmachines. Like if a weapons team misfires, you kind of expect it, and who knows, maybe he does it in a funny way. Orcs expect to die, but not by their own guys. You can average to kill as many Skaven as your opponent when playing as them.

Orcs try to be the funny army, and those elements are there, they just aren't as prevalent as in the Skaven book.

So you would advise that Goblins would be my specialized troopers while orcs are more the gitz who get stuck in... interesting.

If I am starting the Greenskins what is the most commonly used basics? I assume like basic troops and hq. more or less....

Suggestions?

thing with orcs, is they come in HORDES and for guys with 4T having a boat load of them is awesome, in a 3k game i run ZERO goblins outside the 9 i have to have operate my war machines but still just using orcs alone i have 175 models on the table lol.. thing with orcs is you can get soooo many of them for verrry cheap, and when your opponent spends 3 turns dicing up orc after orc after orc then looks up and goes F!$# im not even half way, is awesome lol also expect your army to have silyl shinanagins happen to it because the combined IQ is prolly still jsut a 2 digit number, play them light heartedly and you will have fun!!

well for starters in fantasy their spelt orcs

Hmmm that is the boring way to spell it... >.> ...

Thanks guys any suggestions one what to buy? for starters i have been told the battleforces suck

Seems like you want a fun army. You could run massive amounts of Night Goblins and run a couple of Black Orcs. Black Orcs got this rule called Armed to da Teef which allows them to pick between One Handed Weapon + Shield, Additional Hand Weapon or Great Weapon each first round of combat. Also, the models looks amazing.

Now, to the Goblins - Night Goblins are REALLY cheap and you can field Fanatics and Netters. Fanatics have the potential to kill your own units but at least Night Goblins are really cheap (3 points each) so it doesn't matter, and with Netters you have a big chance to reduce the opponents units S by 1. There's really a lot of cool stuff going on in the O'n'G army book and I recommend them to you.

Muppas you have to buy shields you dont get them basic. Also the lores for OnG is very fun as are most goblin units

Yeah of course. But I assumed that everyone buy shields for their Black Orcs.

I mainly use GW on mine as I2 you will be striking last anyway

I like to use shields vs stuff like Skaven Slaves, Additional Hand Weapon vs Marauders and GW vs the rest!

also watching black orcs drop to bows because they only have a 5+ AS wihtout the shield is far too depressing to chance

rocksteadygreeny wrote:also watching black orcs drop to bows because they only have a 5+ AS wihtout the shield is far too depressing to chance

This. A thousand times.

So i bought a codex, and working out a deal to pic up some fantasy orks cheaply. But i need a demo or something of this edition...

I really like the help so far guys but you are talking over my head sorry don't mind it though

Do you have a FLGS near you? As I have found if you ask nicely and can find some veteran players/store owners will show you a sample game or explain the game their playing

Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:So i bought a codex, and working out a deal to pic up some fantasy orks cheaply. But i need a demo or something of this edition...

I really like the help so far guys but you are talking over my head sorry don't mind it though

Basically, the armour rules determines how resistant a unit is.

Light armour or sheild is 6+ save.

Heavy armour, or light armour and sheild is 5+.

Heavy armour and Sheild is 4+.

Being mounted provides a additional +1 to the armour save, and sheilds with a single hand weapon produces a 6+ ward save in close combat, since in warhammer ward saves can be taken in addition to armour saves, thats decent for some units. Though armour saves change depending on how much strength the attack has, getting less effective the higher the strength is.

Black Orcs cost a bit in warhammer terms, so often the small increase in points to give them a considerably better armour save vs arrows. Yet in addition, Black Orcs can select one of three weapons they use when they enter close combat, a single close combat weapon (so they can use their sheild) Two close handed weapons (a extra attack in exchange of the sheild) or Great weapon (2+ strength to every attack, but loses some init and forsake use of sheild) Often great weapons are the prime choice as they offer extra strength to crack open armour in exchange to reducing their already low init.

Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:So i bought a codex, and working out a deal to pic up some fantasy orks cheaply. But i need a demo or something of this edition...

I really like the help so far guys but you are talking over my head sorry don't mind it though

I would like to add that Boar Boyz are pretty good (even though most people say they are bad.) They get +3 Armour Save because of their Boar, x2 S5 attacks if they charge and got spears in the first round of combat. Also, if you buy a Banner of Swiftness they get M8.

They are expensive in points but they really pack a great punch if you use them right. If you also add a Black Orc Warboss on a Warboar the whole unit ignores Animosity. If you equip him right you can also get +1 Armour Save (Yup, that's right. +1. He's pretty much immune to everything at S3 or under) and get a juicy +4 Ward Save AND a really good magic weapon if you still want to spend more points on him.

Just throwing out some ideas. Don't mind me.

I prefer Chariots over Boar Units for flank assist since they are already animosity free

Just bought a box of Savage orc boys... hope it was a good buy. I debated over goblins, orc or savage orcs

Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:Just bought a box of Savage orc boys... hope it was a good buy. I debated over goblins, orc or savage orcs

Good choice. I usually run -

40 Savage Orcs Big'Uns
Additional Hand Weapon
FC

and then stick a lvl 2 Savage Orc Shaman with Shrunken Head so everyone gets a +5 Ward save! With S5 A3 first round of combat they will deal massive amount of damage.

Tip 1) Orks in fantasy are spelt with a c, like so: Orc

Tip 2) I see you bought a savage orc boy unit, good choice Do what Muppas says to do with them

Fantasy is indeed really different than 40k. I was just re-reading some of the 40K books and had forgotten how wacky some of that stuff was. Particularly Orks. But 40K armies also have tons and tons of really overpowered rules that tend to stack and make a game almost a foregone conclusion.

Yes, Orks look cooler than Orcs, if you like piston klaws and stuff like that.

I think you indeed might like Skaven more than Orcs if you want high risk high reward and weird-looking stuff.

I love Orcs...mainly because of Goblins but Orcs are a scary force in the hands of a good general. You hit hard and hope you win and have way kooler fluff than in 40k

Loads of Boyz with 2 choppas can be super effective, especially in the hands of a good general. A little luck helps too.

So what would you suggest i make a small army be then if I am going savage boys?

Well the nice thing about Savage Orcs is they are a CORE hammer unit, which for alot of armies is huge. Just throw in some rare a lord and a mage and you wil lbe set!

Savage Orcs are one of the strongest offensive units for orcs, simply because they have a strong offensive (3 attacks on the charge at strength 4/5 depending on big un upgrade) and that they get the most reliable save in this codex with sharman (5+ ward isn't fantastic for most codexes, but for Orcs it's one of the best we get.) For a core unit, you can quite easily spend a good portion of 25%, and get great use out of it.

Of course though, Goblins of both types make good anvils to march up front and die.

So like X many Savage boys as a core, then what... Savage big boss? Warboss, Shaman, Great Shaman? then maybe some goblin archers or something? or should I go ork archers?