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I really like Orc Archers (Arrer Boyz). They're sort of like Shoota Boyz in that they have a ranged weapon, but still fight pretty decently in close combat. A good size unit is a great tool to have in your list when you meet things that are super choppy, but not that tough (Swordmasters and Bloodletters off the top of my head). Orcs are tough and cheap, but a cunnin' warboss won't throw them into the grinder just for the hell of it.

got my first demo in and I was pleased with the complexity but still feel COMPLETELY HELPLESS at understanding what to take in the orc and goblin codex

I did enjoy the Goblin Shaman i test tried

and my big un savage boys did incredibly well at the end of the game. But we also tried out goblin wolf riders and a chariot... not so great results.

Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:got my first demo in and I was pleased with the complexity but still feel COMPLETELY HELPLESS at understanding what to take in the orc and goblin codex

I did enjoy the Goblin Shaman i test tried

and my big un savage boys did incredibly well at the end of the game. But we also tried out goblin wolf riders and a chariot... not so great results.

I'm glad you enjoyed the Big'Uns!

About the Wolf Riders and Chariots, how did you use them? Did you make them run in solo? Did you flank with them? Because you have to remember that they are support units and should only get stuck in if you have to OR if they get to flank an unit who's already in combat. But that's also why I like Boar Boyz - they are amazing support units who can also take a massive beating!

Tell me the units you find interesting in the O'n'G book and I will help you out.

... Also, remember that some units in O'n'G aren't supposed to get in "proper" fights (looking at you, Night Goblins) and they're usually there as support for your Orcs or some other heavy hitters.

For orc bosses its almost always better to go with a black orc

Ralin Givens wrote:For orc bosses its almost always better to go with a black orc

Right on, alright I will make sure to try out a black orc big boss next time

As far as my shaman he was a goblin with gift of the spider god, and sneaky stabbins. I actually managed to do ALOT with it tho my magic failed often (mostly cause my tomb kings opponent took a level 4 wizard with casket of souls so i never had more dice than him in any phase but one)

I made a whole bunch of sneaky charge attacks on the tomb kings but all but the chariot failed... least my chariot managed to ram his knights in the flank and hold them up for a long time.

My wolf riders where my biggest mistake, took spears and shields when they were only two ranks (10) and outright charged the necropolist knights. I should have ran by them and hit his casket of souls instead... this later cost me GREATLY.

my big un's rammed right into his sphinx and RAPED IT. I was expecting to lose alot form the charge but barely anything at all. They then slamed through archers and ran through his line well. My problem was the tomb king's magic was super effective and I wanted rid of the casket... i made a sacrifice i was mad at myself to doing... I sent both my BSB and my savage orc big boss out of the unit to charge it while the unit charged the archers... we won both combats but the casket took both my heroes with it.

It came down to a very close draw against someone who was a veteran because my big'uns held their own amazingly with only 25 and a lord in TK warrior's unit. I challenged his champion with mine and slaughtered him before he could act and my boys did an astounding 11 casualties despite BEING charged we won assault. the next round i accepted a challenge from his lord character and i passed both my 6+ saves with my boss (lucky egh?) we dished out more pain but iwas becoming obvious as I couldn't dispell his magic that he would end up ressurecting and winning. we widdled them down to 10 boys before we were wiped.

It proved to be an interesting game despite HORRIBLE ROLLING on my part... and i mean HORRIBLE. Worst i have ever rolled. I enjoyed the big stabbas and the chariot seemed good despite being pwned by the knights i really like the idea of lots of hard hitting in one round.

I would say the biggest change from 40k to fantasy was CC calucation and the less number of dice rolls lol. I was right about the tactical inflexibility of the savage boys though because they had to pursue some combats I was being forced to make some bad decisions though being big un's helped out alot! I want to try more traditional orcs but i agree with the advice i received after my game from the tomb kings player. goblin shamans > orc shamans (at least till i try one out)

So I was thinking of doing something like this for my army...

30 Savage orc Big'uns (two weapons)
30 orc boys (two weapons)
30 orc boys (two weapons)
black orc hero (Sword and board?) [general]
goblin shaman (no idea items)
20 Goblins (archers)


From there I just don't know what to grab... I'll read over the codex and post what i am curious about. Thanks for all the help and suggestions guys i really am glad i tried this out. Now it's just a matter of time till I start stompin!

I'm glad that you enjoyed those Big'uns! I'll PM you one of my lists and see if you like it.

Ironhide (Black orc hero)

and black orcs... they look good but what is everyone's thoughts on that vs savage orcs?

I was think sword and board style.


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Bah, after reading over the codex I am conflicted what to try and buy... sigh i really love the sneaky dealings of the goblins but i have been an orc man my whole mini's career...

even if I choose one it seems like each army has multiple styles...

Ie. forest goblins, Night goblins and simple goblins

Ie. Black orcs, savage orcs, and simple orcs.

I figure it must be a blending of the two for example goblin archers combined with black orc defensive squad, night goblin cushion squads with savage orc counter assualts and chariots/calvary as out flankers... but I am having a hard time trying to fit them in my head...

It feels like the codex wants me to take an all spider goblin army or an all savage orc army ect ect ect.

On orc bosses vs black orc bosses. Depends on how plain you want to take him really, if your upgrading him immensely, it's almost always better to go with a Orc Boss, largely because his heavy weapon and armour is largely useless as it is traded in for more killy/protective stuff. Amosity control for one unit and a +1 weapon skill is a really hard sell at 30 more points.

Savage Vs Black Orcs again, largely depends on what you are looking for. Somewhat more frail (armour can be reduced, though extra resistance to arrows could be great, but lacks any protection to magic) but more elite, killy orcs (strength 6 with heavy weapons could hurt.) or the univercially tough, harder to control but insanely strong 3 Strength 4/5 attacks.

To me, savage orcs seems the clear winner if your investing in them for a hammer unit, just since you can only take one squad of big uns, Black Orcs could also be taken as a second beatstick, which does not do orcy things and is the only unit to take heavy weapons in orcs codex.


Could always theme the goblins as savage too, with war paint and what not. Heck, even make the wheels on the chariot square if you got savage orcs riding it. XD

Just remember, when larger armies of greenskins gather, orcs from all paths of life tend to unite under the banner to kill, main and murder. So having the odd out of theme squad in there makes perfect sense, easpically if it's black orcs or freshly conscripted goblins.

So it's basically like I thought then?

Savage boys best place is in combat but they are more restricted by the gameplay.

Black orcs are more expensive, but have great armor (by orc standards) as well as the ability to mix and match combat styles however they'd need to

and plain orcs are generally a hybrid of the two not really pulling strength from one category but are cheaper than most other units.


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I am thinking of running savage big un's with contemporary orcs as my main staple. using goblins as ranged support and fodder. I enjoy the goblin magic more so than orcish magic still at least for now, but i think I want a to choose either typical orcs as my leaders + BSBs.

As far as special units units; still drawing a blank here... i'm sorta divided between an array of choices. Boar boys after reading them... do seem really good but i think the whole 16 points base might not be all that good since it is more or less a 1 round baddass group then all their stats drop drastic, i figure i should take spears if i did for the additional +1 strength on the charge making even normal boar boys 20 points a pop if you equip them with shields as well. question is is a 3+ armor good? or just a waste compared to getting more boys?

another choice i was thinking about was snotling swarms as the concept of no armor saves does sound pretty cool but i don't know how throwing weapons work...

Part of my D&D lover wants to take trolls... but we haven't demoed the rules to them and i've heard giants suck so i am a bit worried with being so low of morale... well they might be like their bigger brother.

I'm interested in the squig hoppers and herders but I am a bit worried they are worthless due to how erratic they are appear to be. Not that i don't like spontaneity i just don't feel comfy with it just starting out.

I feel like the orc boar chariot i tested out kinda sucked balls... but it did only side flank a necropolis knight ... so maybe it was a bad review? but i kinda like the idea of the wolf chariots more anyway... *shrug*

Black orcs seem versatile and tough, i like the idea of them but I am wondering if they are as good as they seem or just a point sink compared to these other choices.

the spear chukka seems useless but we didn't have ballistics on either side other than some skeleton archers.

as far as rare units i have my suspicions; I heard the mangler squigs are OUTRAGEOUSLY good. especially against armies like warriors of chaos.

i have to admit part of me wants the damn spider but I think i will hold off till i have a better understanding of the game though it does have that sweet bite.

I have to admit the pump wagon made my heart flutter seeing a orcy contraption that would make everyone's butt pucker but it looks a little soft.

I've heard of good things about the doom diver... but i dunno it seems strange.

I haven't tried catapults yet but I hear they are good as well.

SORRY for being so micro managing just no one else i know who plays fantasy has been willing to help me make choices. could i poke you guys and hear your thoughts on these units? as far as how well a noob could use them and such.

I m just going to take most of your post and reply one by one. Easier that way, though it's great to go into depth to improve your own understanding. ^^

So it's basically like I thought then?

Savage boys best place is in combat but they are more restricted by the gameplay.

Black orcs are more expensive, but have great armor (by orc standards) as well as the ability to mix and match combat styles however they'd need to

and plain orcs are generally a hybrid of the two not really pulling strength from one category but are cheaper than most other units.

Aye, thats more or less right, savage orcs hit like a bus, Black Orcs are really resistant to shooting and have a nice choice of weapons, while Orcs are the cheapest you can get while remaining assualty. Their armour sucks and is essencally not there against any meaningful foe, but they are stronger then gobs and can fight fairly well.

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I am thinking of running savage big un's with contemporary orcs as my main staple. using goblins as ranged support and fodder. I enjoy the goblin magic more so than orcish magic still at least for now, but i think I want a to choose either typical orcs as my leaders + BSBs.

Aye, orcs have typically better leadership anyways then Goblins, so they are fantastic in that role. If they are in a group with standard of displine, then leadership 10 for everything close by if you take a warlord. Or 9 for a big boss.

That being said, goblins can be fairly useful. A normal goblin boss with great weapon can chuck out 3 Strength 6 attacks for a humble 34 points. Sharmens are really good though, easpically the night goblins who gain essencally a free power dice every turn, provided he doesn't choak on his mushrooms.

As far as special units units; still drawing a blank here... i'm sorta divided between an array of choices. Boar boys after reading them... do seem really good but i think the whole 16 points base might not be all that good since it is more or less a 1 round baddass group then all their stats drop drastic, i figure i should take spears if i did for the additional +1 strength on the charge making even normal boar boys 20 points a pop if you equip them with shields as well. question is is a 3+ armor good? or just a waste compared to getting more boys?

Never really used them. They sound fairly tough, but so few models for 20 points each is meh for me. Essencally, if you got a big cav boss, maybe. I don't really like them, a huge investment for a unit thats only really for supporting

another choice i was thinking about was snotling swarms as the concept of no armor saves does sound pretty cool but i don't know how throwing weapons work...

I don't really like snotlings. They are pretty much a wall, but is unlikely to last very well at all.

Part of my D&D lover wants to take trolls... but we haven't demoed the rules to them and i've heard giants suck so i am a bit worried with being so low of morale... well they might be like their bigger brother.

They are quite good, but you need a good leader for them close by so they can benfit from his inspiring presence to not sit there and do nothing.

I'm interested in the squig hoppers and herders but I am a bit worried they are worthless due to how erratic they are appear to be. Not that i don't like spontaneity i just don't feel comfy with it just starting out.

Hoppers are cool, you can take them fairly small if you want something to simply distract them.

I feel like the orc boar chariot i tested out kinda sucked balls... but it did only side flank a necropolis knight ... so maybe it was a bad review? but i kinda like the idea of the wolf chariots more anyway... *shrug*

Yeah, you rammed him against something pretty powerful. Toughest chariot out of the lot, but needs to be able to inflict lots of wounds quickly, or to support so they are not locked in combat. The last army to offically use chariots lost them all to simply being bogged down by troops.

Black orcs seem versatile and tough, i like the idea of them but I am wondering if they are as good as they seem or just a point sink compared to these other choices.

They are pretty solid.

the spear chukka seems useless but we didn't have ballistics on either side other than some skeleton archers.

It's not so much the spear chuckers are any good, they are simply dirt cheap. Get 6 of them lined up and they will be scoring hits on stuff. Probably not worth the money in real life though.

as far as rare units i have my suspicions; I heard the mangler squigs are OUTRAGEOUSLY good. especially against armies like warriors of chaos.

Hell yeah, they are balls of mass destuction hurled in an armys direction, if you want something to draw attention, these guys are good at it. Painful when they hit, though most of the time they may not make it. Long as they are distracting the oppoment enough they are doing the job.

i have to admit part of me wants the damn spider but I think i will hold off till i have a better understanding of the game though it does have that sweet bite.

I donno either, it's rather expensive for a single unit.

I have to admit the pump wagon made my heart flutter seeing a orcy contraption that would make everyone's butt pucker but it looks a little soft.

Aye, but for 45 points, perhaps with some small customisations, it could be fairly desruptive

I've heard of good things about the doom diver... but i dunno it seems strange.

Gives those goblins something else to do. They are quite good, namely for dealing with elite units and other stuff you want to definately hit.

I haven't tried catapults yet but I hear they are good as well.

Throwing Giant rocks is always fun. <3 Orcs and Gobs don't have the shooting prowess of most factions, but a couple of shooters allows us to wittle down the stuff that would turn even a orcs stomach.

SORRY for being so micro managing just no one else i know who plays fantasy has been willing to help me make choices. could i poke you guys and hear your thoughts on these units? as far as how well a noob could use them and such.

Have done. ^^

And don't pass over the goblins, march them up front of your orcs and you got improvised soft cover! XD

Thanks man, yeah i really appericate the detailed response about this. Yeah i was very pleased with everything I've been reading and i was planning on using a unit of goblins to screw up units from advancing quickly on my position.

I am going to make a 1200 pt list and I'll see what you have to say now. Thanks and look foreward to it soon.


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WOW having read ove Ironclaw... i'm a bit scared of the cheese he offers in this game... lol I'd go big un's everywhere


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1250 Pts - Orcs & Goblins Roster

Warboss (1#, 160 pts)
1 Goblin Warboss, 160 pts (General; Hand Weapon; Fear Elves)
1 Ogre Blade
1 Armour of Destiny
1 Potion of Speed

Big Boss (1#, 135 pts)
1 Orc Big Boss (Battle Standard Bearer), 135 pts (Choppas; Size Matters - Orcs; Hand Weapon; Light Armour; Battle Standard Bearer)
1 Rampager's Standard

Shaman (1#, 85 pts)
1 Night Goblin Shaman, 85 pts (Level 2 Upgrade; Hand Weapon; Fear Elves; Hatred (Dwarves))
1 Sneaky Stealin'
1 0. Sneaky Stabbin'
1 1. Vindictive Glare
1 2. Gift of the Spider-god
1 3. Itchy Nuisance
1 4. Gork'll Fix It
1 5. Night Shroud
1 6. Curse of da Bad Moon
1 Spells of the Little Waaagh

Wolf Rider Mob (10#, 150 pts)
9 Goblin Wolf Riders, 150 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Short Bow; Light Armour; Shield; Fast Cavalry; Fear Elves)
1 Wolf Rider Boss (Hand Weapon; Short Bow; Light Armour; Shield)
10 Giant Wolf (Swiftstride)

Boyz Mob (25#, 330 pts)
24 Savage Orc Big'Uns, 330 pts (Choppas; Size Matters - Orcs; Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Big Stabbas; Hand Weapon; Extra Hand Weapon; Warpaint; Extra Attack; Frenzy)
1 Savage Orc Boss (Choppas; Hand Weapon; Extra Hand Weapon; Warpaint; Extra Attack; Frenzy)

Boyz Mob (25#, 210 pts)
24 Orc Boyz, 210 pts (Choppas; Size Matters - Orcs; Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Extra Hand Weapon; Light Armour; Extra Attack)
1 Orc Boss (Choppas; Hand Weapon; Extra Hand Weapon; Light Armour; Extra Attack)

Night Goblin Mob (21#, 115 pts)
19 Night Goblins, 115 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Spear; Shield; Fear Elves; Hatred (Dwarves))
1 Night Goblin Boss (Hand Weapon; Spear; Shield)
1 Fanatics

Mangler Squig (1#, 65 pts)
1 Mangler Squig, 65 pts (Immune to Psychology)

Validation Report:
Edition: 8th Edition; Game Type: Normal Game; Army Subtype: Orc & Goblin Horde; Special Rules: Forbid Regiments of Renown
Roster satisfies all enforced validation rules

Composition Report:
Points of Lords: 160 (0 - 312.5)
Points of Heroes: 220 (0 - 312.5)
Points of Core: 805 (312.5 - Unlimited)
Points of Special: 0 (0 - 625)
Points of Rare: 65 (0 - 312.5)

Total Roster Cost: 1250

Created with Army Builder® - Try it for free at http://www.wolflair.com

Ironclaw is alright, the main issues however:

1) He's on a boar, which makes it hard for him to hide in units.

2) No standard barrier. He counts as both, so if he dies, your in serious trouble, which is possible since a lot of fire from anything can kill him given enough time.

3) Big un' upgrades can be costly, so you probably won't want to overdo it. Otherwise you will be relatively few in number.

So while he appears completely broke, it's not really, it just simply is a style change more then anything else. You essencally have to run a style taloured to his needs, which is fine. Though his weapon is fantastic and his 18 inch aura is quite incredable.

I also want to say that he's not really a good fighter. Sure, he's better than the overall Lord but he's really expensive for those stats...

Muppas wrote:I also want to say that he's not really a good fighter. Sure, he's better than the overall Lord but he's really expensive for those stats...

Agreed, you really need to take him for his abilitys more then you want his melee prowess, he's not combat efficent, so he really needs to be used to all his commanding potential to be worth it

Alrighty, i need suggestions for purchases to start this proper waaaaaagh!

I have no idea what to purchase for what but i have my game store owner agreeing to financing me since i have a good relationship with him. So please make some some fundamental suggestions as he is very well stocked.

My focus is functionality not exactly just an army idea i've had. So please offer me a few GW deals you think will make me a decent army like battle sets or battlions.

Anyway thanks for all the help guys talk to you later.

I really dislike the OnG battalion but if could find the huge box that is worth it.

Ralin Givens wrote:I really dislike the OnG battalion but if could find the huge box that is worth it.

So Wait, The battlion and battle boxes are not good? That is fine but what do you suggest i get? I only have 10 savage orcs atm.

I want to grab some Black orcs for sure, and I would like to cover my bases by getting basic orcs and goblins and possibly night goblins as well.

What about rare and specials... any ideas?

Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:Alrighty, i need suggestions for purchases to start this proper waaaaaagh!

I have no idea what to purchase for what but i have my game store owner agreeing to financing me since i have a good relationship with him. So please make some some fundamental suggestions as he is very well stocked.

My focus is functionality not exactly just an army idea i've had. So please offer me a few GW deals you think will make me a decent army like battle sets or battlions.

Anyway thanks for all the help guys talk to you later.

Big Mek Wurrzog wrote: So Wait, The battlion and battle boxes are not good? That is fine but what do you suggest i get? I only have 10 savage orcs atm.

I want to grab some Black orcs for sure, and I would like to cover my bases by getting basic orcs and goblins and possibly night goblins as well.

What about rare and specials... any ideas?

Tell us what kind of army do you like. You got to remember that almost every single unit in the O'n'G army book works just fine. Do you like Goblins? Do you like a random and fun army? Do you want a Dead 'Ard army? Do you want a mix of serious and fun army? Do you want a serious army? Do you want a savage themed army? Do you want a little of everything? Or go a heavy themed army, like a lot of shooty stuff or lots of fast stuff?

Just tell me what kind of army you wish to play and i'll give you some advice.

Alrighty, so it's been a bit but i made my purchases and my army now totes

20 savage orc boys, 10 orc boys (still growing), 40 night goblins, an orc boar chariot, 10 goblin spider riders,10 black orcs and 3 fanatics. I am still debating on my heros and such at this moment but i am pretty sure on goblin shaman at the very least.

Who says the Giant is not good? I've had mine hold an entire flank on his own for more than half the battle more than a few times. Anything that can kill a multi-wound character in a flash just because of some lucky rolling (picking him up and eating/crushing him or stuffing him down his pants) is fun... plus the look on your opponent's face when this happens is priceless.

The Arachnaroc is pricey indeed but is well worth the points in my humble opinion. Last time I had it charge the enemy's Stegadon, which was summarily dispatched (8 poisoned attacks are worth it, trust me) and then went on to fall on the flank of his Saurus warriors fighting my Black Orcs. Yes it was a fun day...

I do have to admit though that Giants are especially prone to dying from shooting and poison. In the above mentioned battle against the Lizardmen, the Giant fell to a barrage of poisoned darts from Skinks! Totally not glorious...

angelshade00 wrote:Who says the Giant is not good? I've had mine hold an entire flank on his own for more than half the battle more than a few times. Anything that can kill a multi-wound character in a flash just because of some lucky rolling (picking him up and eating/crushing him or stuffing him down his pants) is fun... plus the look on your opponent's face when this happens is priceless.

The Arachnaroc is pricey indeed but is well worth the points in my humble opinion. Last time I had it charge the enemy's Stegadon, which was summarily dispatched (8 poisoned attacks are worth it, trust me) and then went on to fall on the flank of his Saurus warriors fighting my Black Orcs. Yes it was a fun day...

I do have to admit though that Giants are especially prone to dying from shooting and poison. In the above mentioned battle against the Lizardmen, the Giant fell to a barrage of poisoned darts from Skinks! Totally not glorious...

I really appreciate that! it gives me something to think about at the very least as I am considering that spider reguardless