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I think this because of the following excerpts/info from codexes Necrons & tyranids
"As I looked into it's dead black eyes, I saw the terrible sentience it had in place of a soul. Behind that was the steel will of it's leader. Further still I could feel it's primogenitor coldly assessing me from the void. And looking back from the deepest resesses of the alien's mind I preceived what I can describe as an immortal hunger." Ultramarines Chief Librarian Tigurius, codex Tyranids 5th edition pg 13. And seeing as ALL the c'tan are always hungry (for souls/energy, not flesh I know, but what if the tyranids are acting as mouths for the outsider in this case. By the tyranids eating the flesh but their creator, the outsider getting the soul at the same time through the tyranids, it's creations eating the flesh of their victims) but also have the power of creation at their fingertips and immortality (the bit about the c'tan having the power of creation is in codex necrons pg 28) so what if in the outsider's exile, it created the tyranids. And because of the c'tan's general soulessness the tyranids have no soul, just like their creator and also just like their creator are always hungry, so it seems pretty logical that the tyranids would be the creation of 1 of the C'tan due to these simlarities, and the C'tan they would have to belong to would be the Outsider, because he was exiled from the universe because of his insanity, and the tyranids come from beyond the universe. Not to also mention that the tyranids also avoided conflict with the necrons at Solemnace (codex Tyranids pg 10-11) and again, instances of tyranids sparing worlds (pg11 paragrph 4 codex necrons) So what if it's actually the outsider not wanting to alert the other C'tan that that their insane brother is sending his minions back into the galaxy if in fact the tyranids are in fact the outsider's servants by the hive mind being the collective consicousness of the outsider. This is just how it looks to me, but I could be wrong. Any thoughts?

Has merit. Still unbridled speculation if you ask me. The Tyranids have come from another galaxy, they're made of flesh, and biology. Their purpose is to continue the species.

Although I don't have either codex I know the Outsider is in a Dyson Sphere or something. I have always thought the Tyranid Hive Mind to be actually that a hive mentality, and that it fits them perfectly this way. Also isn't the shadow of the warp a psychic force, which the Ctan can not stand.

I used to like the idea of The Outsider being the force behind the nids but there's ideas knocking around that it's in the sphere and add to that that the necrons only experiments with biological matter are with the pariahs, maybe the flayed ones if you count IG coats.

This has always been the theory I propose, though I am a C'tan-spirocy theorist.

Farsight's Dawnblade is a C'tan sword and one of them is somehow giving him the extra long life that he leads,

The Hivemind is really the Outsider,

The Void Dragon rests in Mars and controls all the Adeptus Mechanicus without their knowledge,

really anything that isn't fully explained is a C'tan's doing

A C'tan is in my dryer stealing my socks?!

SlaveToDorkness wrote:A C'tan is in my dryer stealing my socks?!

The left one. Every time.

Azure wrote:This has always been the theory I propose, though I am a C'tan-spirocy theorist.

Farsight's Dawnblade is a C'tan sword and one of them is somehow giving him the extra long life that he leads,

The Hivemind is really the Outsider,

The Void Dragon rests in Mars and controls all the Adeptus Mechanicus without their knowledge,

really anything that isn't fully explained is a C'tan's doing

It was my understanding Farsight is a title and it's been more than one Tau, or is that a rumor too.

Nicholas wrote:

It was my understanding Farsight is a title and it's been more than one Tau, or is that a rumor too.

C'tan-spirocy good sir, one never fully explained, only ever to be postulated during the dull moments of the day

Then how do you explain the Shadow in the Warp?

As for the Dragon of Mars (there is no fluff that links it to the 'Void Dragon' mentioned in Eldar myth, although it's plausible), that is indeed a C'Tan, but he's not really controlling the priesthood, although he has certainly influenced their formation (which is why Big E put it there in the first place).

Shadow in the Warp? Well it seems that Pariahs don't have so much no presence in the Warp as the have a negative presence. Could be another toy of the Outsider messing around with genetics making a different, more dominant version of the Pariah gene.

I don't understand how people can come to this conclusion.

The Hive Mind exists in the Warp and fulfills the function of a soul for all Tyranids.
The Outsider has been trapped in its Dyson Sphere since the War in Heaven, and as a C'tan cannot interact with the Warp at all.

By the fact that the Warp is anathema to the C'tan alone, it's simply not possible for the Outsider to be the Tyranid Hive Mind.

The Tyranids are the antithesis of the Necrons and the Nightbringer, but there's nothing concrete about the desires of the other C'tan. Do they want to wipe out all life, or simply rule/consume it?

I don't think the hive mind is a thing, there's no 'queen' or Tyranid beastie. It is a gestalt consciousness, the sum total of every single organism and creature.

This is certainly what I think about the hive mind. It's pure speculation of course but I think it all makes sense and I really like the idea.

tantan628 wrote:This is certainly what I think about the hive mind. It's pure speculation of course but I think it all makes sense and I really like the idea.

But it doesn't make sense...
A lot of people were unhappy with the "C'tan were behind everything" approach the Necron codex has towards the lore. If that were to continue into the Tyranids' own lore, the rants would be on par with all the raging about Ward still going on.

Ironsight wrote:I don't understand how people can come to this conclusion.

The Hive Mind exists in the Warp and fulfills the function of a soul for all Tyranids.
The Outsider has been trapped in its Dyson Sphere since the War in Heaven, and as a C'tan cannot interact with the Warp at all.

By the fact that the Warp is anathema to the C'tan alone, it's simply not possible for the Outsider to be the Tyranid Hive Mind.

Not once is the Hive Mind said to exist in the Warp.

But yes, it is highly unlikely that the Outsider is the Hive Mind, it is all but directly stated to be in a Dyson Sphere outside the galaxy.

Actually, if i recall correctly, in the Horus Heresy book Mechanicum they vist the Void Dragon, and specificly call it that. Also, it has disguised itself as the Ommisah, or however you spell it, and is slowly taking over the Mechanicum.

Void__Dragon wrote:

Ironsight wrote:I don't understand how people can come to this conclusion.

The Hive Mind exists in the Warp and fulfills the function of a soul for all Tyranids.
The Outsider has been trapped in its Dyson Sphere since the War in Heaven, and as a C'tan cannot interact with the Warp at all.

By the fact that the Warp is anathema to the C'tan alone, it's simply not possible for the Outsider to be the Tyranid Hive Mind.

Not once is the Hive Mind said to exist in the Warp.

But yes, it is highly unlikely that the Outsider is the Hive Mind, it is all but directly stated to be in a Dyson Sphere outside the galaxy.

Tigurius is reputed to have made psychic contact with the Hive Mind
The Shadow in the Warp is the effect of the thoughts of all the Tyranids in the area creating a white noise effect in the Warp.
I don't recall anywhere where it's outright stated, but it's a safe assumption.

Billie_Joe wrote:Actually, if i recall correctly, in the Horus Heresy book Mechanicum they vist the Void Dragon, and specificly call it that. Also, it has disguised itself as the Ommisah, or however you spell it, and is slowly taking over the Mechanicum.

More like it's in a coma, and the humans around it have taken to worshiping it as a deity. As the Necron threat makes itself more and more apparent, Techpriests across the galaxy will be forced to consider where their loyalties have been lying for the past 10,000+ years...
But how did the Void Dragon become involved in this discussion anyways?

Tyranids are even older than the Old ones, so I doubt that It have anything to do with the Void Dragon. unless the Void Dragon is much older Than the Old ones, I higly doubt it. Also... The Void dragon is believed to be the Machine god that Adeptus Mechanicus worship... I don't know about you, but i think there is some difference between machines and Tyranids.

Nicholas wrote:Although I don't have either codex I know the Outsider is in a Dyson Sphere or something.

Are you telling me my vacuum cleaner is trying to eat my soul? Excuse for not doing housework..... FOUND!

Daedricbob wrote:

Nicholas wrote:Although I don't have either codex I know the Outsider is in a Dyson Sphere or something.

Are you telling me my vacuum cleaner is trying to eat my soul? Excuse for not doing housework..... FOUND!

This is my very first quote going in my sig.

Iranna.

Totally not a bot wrote:Tyranids are even older than the Old ones, so I doubt that It have anything to do with the Void Dragon. unless the Void Dragon is much older Than the Old ones, I higly doubt it. Also... The Void dragon is believed to be the Machine god that Adeptus Mechanicus worship... I don't know about you, but i think there is some difference between machines and Tyranids.

What?

The old ones were the first race to venture to the stars in this galaxy. The c'tan did not need a body like the planet-dwelling races and free to roam possibly there before the old ones left their birth-world.

So the Dragon, a C'tan, is a creature formed of energy and has surely no interest in cleaning the galaxy of biomass and the same can be said about his "bretheren". They may suck suns dry, so why should they care for biomass?
OtoH, without biomass their new tasty source of food, the common races of this galaxy would not exist and thus C'tan are opposed to tyranids. Their weapons actively undo biomass and thats the reason why nids evade conflicts with necrons. No way to win for them.

The tyranids are foreign to this galaxy. Their age unknown, but they weren't there when c'tan and old ones battled for the galaxy.
A threat from the outside, not a bio-engineered bunch of minions of a creature from this galaxy.
More likely a bio-weapon gone mad....

I don't know If I would believe they are some kind of Bio-weapon either. just know that they are possibly older than the old ones and they are not controlled by the void Dragon. Void Dragon = The machine God.
Why would he have anything to do with the Tyranids?

And where does it say that Tyranids do not have souls?

Totally not a bot wrote:Tyranids are even older than the Old ones, so I doubt that It have anything to do with the Void Dragon. unless the Void Dragon is much older Than the Old ones, I higly doubt it. Also... The Void dragon is believed to be the Machine god that Adeptus Mechanicus worship... I don't know about you, but i think there is some difference between machines and Tyranids.

The C'tan are much older than the Old Ones, as the C'tan were created at the creation of the universe. I don't know why the Void Dragon is relevant here though as we're talking about the Outsider and the Tyranids. The Void Dragon does control the Adeptus Mechanicus to some degree however.

Totally not a bot wrote:I don't know If I would believe they are some kind of Bio-weapon either. just know that they are possibly older than the old ones and they are not controlled by the Dragon. Dragon = The machine God.
Why would he have anything to do with the Tyranids?

And where does it say that Tyranids do not have souls?

The soul of the nids is the hivemind. Soul, not souls.
C'tan are not interested in the hivemind, but certainly as predators won't share their food and thus oppose any competition.

Abstract Catalyst wrote:
The C'tan are much older than the Old Ones, as the C'tan were created at the creation of the universe. I don't know why the Dragon is relevant here though as we're talking about the Outsider and the Tyranids. The Dragon does control the Adeptus Mechanicus to some degree however.

The outsider is a C'tan, like the "dragon", the "jester" and the "grim reaper". Hasn't got an image yet.
Still, all of them are as old as you say.
if the 'Dragon' controls the mechanicum, would he not consider anyone attacking the properties of the mechanicum a threat to be dealt with? Thats the link between nids, outsider and dragon to the topic.

12 dead galaxies say this is false. While the Outsider is, like all C'tan, as old as the universe, he's of this galaxy. The Tyranids aren't, not by a long shot. The Tyranids existed and were on their way to the Milky Way long before the War in Heaven and any reason for the Outsider to need them as a race to return as.

The Tyranids' background is convoluted, contradictory and - unlike that of most of the Warhammer 40,000 universe's factions - presented primarily from outsiders' limited perspectives. It has never, to the best of my knowledge, been made clear whether each hive fleet is independent of the others, to what real extent the higher Tyranid creatures can function in isolation.

The answer is that it's possible, and might even be a reasonable inference, but then so might a number of other answers. Given the almost total absence of relevant information, any more definite statement is doomed to be assumption presumptuously dressed-up as fact.

I think this actually makes sense the C'tan wander into another galaxy, find a rapidly breeding hive like alien race, kill the alien leaders with its awesomeness, then start steering the aliens towards war and devouring everything until you got the nids. But all this time the C'tan never forgot about its brothers nextdoor and has steered its unstoppable devourer into the place of its origin.

Ironsight wrote:Tigurius is reputed to have made psychic contact with the Hive Mind
The Shadow in the Warp is the effect of the thoughts of all the Tyranids in the area creating a white noise effect in the Warp.
I don't recall anywhere where it's outright stated, but it's a safe assumption.

Dear God not Tigurius... But no, he is "rumored" to have made psychic contact with the Hive Mind, not confirmed, and remember, a psyker does not necessarily draw their power from the Warp... In fact, it is directly stated the Tyranid psykers do not, drawing their power from the gestahlt presence of the Hive Mind itself.

The Shadow in the Warp is basically a smothering psychic signal that makes it nigh-impossible to access the Warp, does not affect the Warp itself.

Also, the age of the Tyranids is not confirmed, but it is impossible for them to be even nearly as old as the C'tan, who predate the existence of life and planets, being as old as the universe itself.

The Old Ones also existed quite some time ago, or rather started, the Necron codex actually has kind of a huge timeline in it, the C'tan ruled an empire that IIRC was stated to have lasted "millenia."

Anopther problem is the Hive Mind is a psychic entity, which also allows other psychic Tyranids to use it offensively or defensively. If there's something the C'tan definitely are not, it's psychic, so he couldn't be guiding them, or even talking to the Hive Mind.

The Tyranids origins are left amgiguous, but there's really no solid evidence that the hive mind is the Outsider without selectively ignoring elements of their race.