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ok guys I heard of deathwing, ravenwing, and draigowing.


So which is the best all terminator army?

I have draigowing paladins.

but what is ravenwing?

I know deathwing is dark angels.

I don't have all of codexes so what so special about deathwing and ravenwing?

many thanks for explainning

Ravenwing is Dark Angels again, but it's their fast attack section; bikes, land speeders, etc.

Loganwing is Space Wolves (wolf guard terminators with Logan Grimnar)

Deathwing are the only army that can mix TH/SS terminators and cyclone launchers in the same unit. So you get your 3+ invulnerable save against AP1 & 2 shots, your str8 thunderhammers against hard targets in assault, and you can stand across the table and open up opposing vehicles with spammed missile launchers, all with the same units.

Also with Belial, deathwing terminators count as troops. That's really all you need--ravenwing and fancy deepstrike rules are just bonus.

Also, to answer your question, the best thing about Deathwing is the price.

215 points gets you a 5 man terminator squad that is fearless and can all be given thunder hammers and storm shields at no extra cost and you can even strap a cyclone missile launcher to the back of one for a mere 20pts.

Wolf Guard are cheaper and come with counter attack, but only come with storm bolters and power weapons basic. Once you give them shiny toys, their cost starts to mount up.

Flavius Infernus wrote:Deathwing are the only army that can mix TH/SS terminators and cyclone launchers in the same unit. So you get your 3+ invulnerable save against AP1 & 2 shots, your str8 thunderhammers against hard targets in assault, and you can stand across the table and open up opposing vehicles with spammed missile launchers, all with the same units.

Also with Belial, deathwing terminators count as troops. That's really all you need--ravenwing and fancy deepstrike rules are just bonus.

But a really sweet bonus! The synergy between the two is pretty good, especially if you load the Ravenwing up with meltas to pop any AV14 you may encounter.

I would not do Space Wolves if you want an all terminator army. The Space Wolve terminators are too expensive(e.g. 10 TH/SS Wolf Guard Terminators costs 730 points).

I thought you could do the CML/TH/SS combo with SW termies as well... Army Builder seems to allow it... then again for some reason you can't pick the epistolary option for Vanilla Libbies with the current build.

Well the only thing about Draigo is that his Termies come with 2 wounds and come with a bunch o psychic powers along with a bunch of nice options and the equivalent of str7 assault cannons.

IMO the Grey Knight Termy List is the best.

Deathwing for cost. However the SW does offer some benefits as long as you don't look at TH/SS. For 33 pts you can have SW termie with PW, for 38 you can have SW termie with Wolf claw. These offer the benefit of having an initiative based weapon as opposed to TH/PF/ChF which is of course going to go at I 1. The SW also offers the benefit of a Rune Priest in termie armor as well as use of some lone wolf termies.

The only real issue with SW termie variant is the need for Logan who will cost you a lot more than Belial.

So 235 for 5 DW with 5 TH/SS and one CML or
5 SW termies with 4 x Wolf Claw and 1 w Chainfist and CML for 230. Where the SW are going to get you is if you believe that Storm shields are the key to good termies.

Real joy of Space wolves is you don't need to slap terminator amour on every one may be give them a storm shield. After all why waste extra points on a model that'll be taking all the anti tank.

That's actually an interesting idea, It's not like they lose their ability to deepstrike of anything.

tempted to do deathwing because of the ability to have thunderhammer in with cyclomissiles and normal power weapons and PF

seems very cheap for what they are

DAaddict wrote:Deathwing for cost. However the SW does offer some benefits as long as you don't look at TH/SS. For 33 pts you can have SW termie with PW, for 38 you can have SW termie with Wolf claw. These offer the benefit of having an initiative based weapon as opposed to TH/PF/ChF which is of course going to go at I 1. The SW also offers the benefit of a Rune Priest in termie armor as well as use of some lone wolf termies.

The only real issue with SW termie variant is the need for Logan who will cost you a lot more than Belial.

So 235 for 5 DW with 5 TH/SS and one CML or
5 SW termies with 4 x Wolf Claw and 1 w Chainfist and CML for 230. Where the SW are going to get you is if you believe that Storm shields are the key to good termies.

Space wolf librarians are far, far superior to DA librarians. I have to give you that. But Belial is pretty good in his own right, and gives you the option to make a nice little deathstar unit that he can attach to - (can upgrade a terminator to an apothecary, and can upgrade another terminator to a standard bearer giving everyone in the squad +1 attack).

The only downsides to the SW terminators, compared to DW, is that DW still have Fearless. (Basically, you trade Acute Senses and Counter-attack for Fearless. YMMV on which set of USRs will serve you better.) You also lose the Deepstrike option, but YMMV with that option anyhow, and shouldn't make/break the decision between the two unless you just really like deepstriking.

As far as the mixing/matching, there's nothing preventing you from doing the exact same thing with DW. You can have any combination of SB+PF, TH+SH, or 2xLC within the same squad, all at a more or less static cost. You don't *have* to go 5x TH+SS with a CML, you can go 2xTH+SS, 2xLC, PF+SB, and a CML somewhere in there.

I'd rather have Counter Attack than Fearless any day. Fearless is more of a liability than anything. I have a deathwing army and I play spacewolves as well. Again, I'd choose counter attack any day.

DarkAngelHopeful wrote:I'd rather have Counter Attack than Fearless any day. Fearless is more of a liability than anything. I have a deathwing army and I play spacewolves as well. Again, I'd choose counter attack any day.

Fearless is a liability with hordes like Orks or Tyranids. I don't see the downside of Fearless with DW - your largest squad size will be 6, and you shouldn't have any problems winning close combat. On the rare occasion you are losing CC, well you have bigger issues to worry about than a handful of 2+ armor saves you might have to take. Rather, the fact you can't be pinned anymore, or be broken due to shooting casualties, is awesome.

CiaranAnnrach wrote:

DarkAngelHopeful wrote:I'd rather have Counter Attack than Fearless any day. Fearless is more of a liability than anything. I have a deathwing army and I play spacewolves as well. Again, I'd choose counter attack any day.

Fearless is a liability with hordes like Orks or Tyranids. I don't see the downside of Fearless with DW - your largest squad size will be 6, and you shouldn't have any problems winning close combat. On the rare occasion you are losing CC, well you have bigger issues to worry about than a handful of 2+ armor saves you might have to take. Rather, the fact you can't be pinned anymore, or be broken due to shooting casualties, is awesome.

Yes, I've enjoyed fearless for those reasons, but I also haven't found pinning or breaking to be a real issue with my space wolves either.

DarkAngelHopeful wrote:

Yes, I've enjoyed fearless for those reasons, but I also haven't found pinning or breaking to be a real issue with my space wolves either.

Fair enough.

DarkAngelHopeful wrote:
Yes, I've enjoyed fearless for those reasons, but I also haven't found pinning or breaking to be a real issue with my space wolves either.

Last Saturday I came less than an inch off losing a squad of GH to a moral test. Not even 1/16th of an inch more and I would have been off the table asides from that, I've failed one pinning check. ld 9(8 without WG) is fairly solid (For a terminator army though, I agree on the fearless-ness )

Yeah i play a deathwing army and ive seen spacewolf termies run or get pinned cuz they dont have fearless or ld 10

In the "Must be 100% terminators in this army! No power armor!" category I'd give the nod to deathwing. Cheap TH/SS coupled with the ability to take chainfists and CMLs, fearless, and retain a deep strike rule better than vanilla all add up to give them the win.

While the shoot-shoot-shoot TURBO-GINSU OVER-9000 nature of GKTs and GKPs make them an excellent terminator army, the raw durability of DW edges them out, in my opinion.

Space wolves...well...I would rate them highly, but not by the "HOW MANY TH/SS DO I GET FOR X POINTS?!" standard that seems to be in vogue currently. They don't do wall to wall TH/SS well. They do bodycount, and bodycount with CMLs well. They do deathstars better than any of the other terminator armies IMO. They put chainfist/SS or TH/SS sergeants in your drop pod grey hunters to make the other guy think real hard about hitting them with a walker/MC outright. But they don't do TH/SS except in small quantity, and in a winky-measuring match with another terminator army they will have a rough time.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/388093.page

Deathwing seems to be the most viable way to do an all-termi army.

Draigowings a close second, but at 1k or less you just get so... little. Deathwing might not have 2 wounds each, but 15+ termis at 1k points is pretty awesomesauce

Loganwings have a lot of termies, but they tend not to be all terminator units. Many sw players often give a nakid power armor wolfguard a ss and have him take all the ap2 hits while the cheap termies take all the rest of the hits. Power armor wolfguard might also be added for extra combi or special weapons, or to up the squad size to 10 for a 2nd cml termie.

I'd say deathwing. Let's not forget that with Belial as a HQ to make your termis troops, you can make a terminator command squad, in which you can have an apothecary, making your terminators FNP as well as fearless. And half your DW terminators can automatically deepstrike in the first turn.

deathwing sound very nice however, how old is the dark angel codex?

2007? any updates for them soon? because i don't want to build an army and find out they are out of date.

2006 actually, but it works very well I assure you. Especially if you're only using deathwing and ravenwing.

The deathwing units were written specifically in order to make a pure termi force. There's been an FAQ since, so apothecaries grant FNP and Storm shields become 3++ for DA too. I think cyclone launchers are also cheaper than in C: SM

CiaranAnnrach wrote:

DAaddict wrote:Deathwing for cost. However the SW does offer some benefits as long as you don't look at TH/SS. For 33 pts you can have SW termie with PW, for 38 you can have SW termie with Wolf claw. These offer the benefit of having an initiative based weapon as opposed to TH/PF/ChF which is of course going to go at I 1. The SW also offers the benefit of a Rune Priest in termie armor as well as use of some lone wolf termies.

The only real issue with SW termie variant is the need for Logan who will cost you a lot more than Belial.

So 235 for 5 DW with 5 TH/SS and one CML or
5 SW termies with 4 x Wolf Claw and 1 w Chainfist and CML for 230. Where the SW are going to get you is if you believe that Storm shields are the key to good termies.

Space wolf librarians are far, far superior to DA librarians. I have to give you that. But Belial is pretty good in his own right, and gives you the option to make a nice little deathstar unit that he can attach to - (can upgrade a terminator to an apothecary, and can upgrade another terminator to a standard bearer giving everyone in the squad +1 attack).

The only downsides to the SW terminators, compared to DW, is that DW still have Fearless. (Basically, you trade Acute Senses and Counter-attack for Fearless. YMMV on which set of USRs will serve you better.) You also lose the Deepstrike option, but YMMV with that option anyhow, and shouldn't make/break the decision between the two unless you just really like deepstriking.

As far as the mixing/matching, there's nothing preventing you from doing the exact same thing with DW. You can have any combination of SB+PF, TH+SH, or 2xLC within the same squad, all at a more or less static cost. You don't *have* to go 5x TH+SS with a CML, you can go 2xTH+SS, 2xLC, PF+SB, and a CML somewhere in there.

To the positive for SW is 4 x Storm bolters every turn plus counter attack. Remember you give up speed with termies so the enemy will be able to charge you. So 12 x wolf claw attacks rerolling hits means 9 power weapon hits plus 3 x chainfist attacks versus 10 thunderhammer hits. Stormbolters aren't a big thing until you expand your force out to 25+ termies, then we are talking 50 S4 shots every turn plus 10 CML shots instead of just 10 CML shots.

DAaddict wrote:

To the positive for SW is 4 x Storm bolters every turn plus counter attack. Remember you give up speed with termies so the enemy will be able to charge you. So 12 x wolf claw attacks rerolling hits means 9 power weapon hits plus 3 x chainfist attacks versus 10 thunderhammer hits. Stormbolters aren't a big thing until you expand your force out to 25+ termies, then we are talking 50 S4 shots every turn plus 10 CML shots instead of just 10 CML shots.

Why does everyone ignore the fact that DW can also mix and match equipment? You can have a mixture of PF+SB, LC, and TH+SS in the same unit. You don't have to go all TH+SS, you can only have 2 or so in a squad and use them to soak up the AP2 attacks. Your argument the DW are absolutely rigid in their configurations - all TH+SS and no variations - and this is not true. Certainly, SW are more flexible than DW, being able to mix and match each hand's weapon independently from the other - but you pay for it. With DW, you are limited to three configurations - the favored TH+SS, the classic PF+SB, and 2x LC (remember, they get +1 attack with this configuration) - but the squad can contain any combination of these three configurations. You can have 2x TH+SS, 2x PF+SB, and 1x LC in a squad. or 1xTH+SS, 2xPF+SB, 2xLC.

Zid wrote:Deathwing seems to be the most viable way to do an all-termi army.

Draigowings a close second, but at 1k or less you just get so... little. Deathwing might not have 2 wounds each, but 15+ termis at 1k points is pretty awesomesauce

You dont' need to run Draigo wing to have all terminators.

GKTs are basic troops. Toss in a Grandmaster and/or libby, and you can take a lot of 2+ armor with psycannons.

You can mix bikes with your death wing, making it more flexible, turbo boost, second turn teleport, shoot and charge with bikes