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I'm seeking feedback from players about my 40k application for iPhone - iCodexNecron.
I hope to use it as a basis for an army calculator which would use similar features.
It is available for free download at: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/icodexnecron/id456038472?ls=1&mt=8

Feedback placed directly at the iTunes App Store itself is very welcome, as is feedback here at Dakka Dakka from anyone who has used the application themselves, or seen the application in use. I'm particularly interested to know if users think the information could be presented differently, more effectively or more attractively.

Legal Note
Please be aware that Games Workshop are advised of the application, and I have discussed it some length with their legal team.
My original application was not authorized, but some allowance has been provided.
In strict accordance with their instructions therefore, I have made suitable alterations and released it as a Necron Codex for the iPhone.
The conception, design and program code belongs to me, but all content which belongs to GW is used without challenge and without seeking profit from their legal property.

Just downloaded--really neat app and I could definitely use this (especially if you port it to an IPad). I know 2x is available (and I'm using it!)---but I could really see this app shine as an IPad application.

Do you plan on expanding this specific app--or just releasing each codex in a specific app?

Thanks AgeOfEgos. Yes, the iPad offers a whole bunch of very interesting extra possibilities - thanks for the encouragement; there are several answers to your question.

You'll see that part of this app is all the Necron Special Rules and some of the General Rules.
Independently accessible listings for Special Rules, Options, Weapons etc are possible, and this is one of the features that was unfinished when I thought the release would be blocked.
If you consider that, you'll realize that as other Codices are added, the application will start to become the whole GW 40k library rather nicely cross-referenced...

But that presents all kinds of issues: application footprint on the hardware, development cost, purchase price, and licensing... My feeling is that a single application would become unwieldy, and that the real virtue of the iPhone version is that it's so fast to access information that gameplay is enhanced. I don't have a license from GW to release the more current codices yet, and really, that's the show stopper. But assuming we can work something out, how would you like to see it done?

How many codices are there for 40k at the moment, something like twelve?

I'm not sure how you structured your app, but it's possible that if you released twelve apps of similar appearance but different data (like you might expect for the different codices) that you'll run into the "app spamming" limits. The people doing app reviews tend to be a bit unpredictable about when that guideline starts getting enforced, though.

Well, I can see you've thought/considered the listing of special rules in a separate fashion. I think as GW moves more and more to USRs that apply to multiple units--this would be invaluable. If the 6th rumors have any validity to them--and they bring back Tiers to USR--then your application will be a god send(even for vets!). I'm not going to touch on the licensing--and I hope this thread does not devolve into 'BUT IPZ!' replies--but rather let us assume you will be able to move forward and speak directly to the aesthetics or lay out of the program.

Given that, a cross competitor that immediately springs to mind is IBodger. I'm sure you are likely familiar with that software--but to reiterate some high marks;

Separate section that allows you to semantic search for USR and abilities
Streamlined hierarchy to access different armies. This is where I may differ a bit. The IPad and IPhone (at this time) do not handle tabular program applications well. The new OS coming this fall is rumored to fix that--but given the current way it operates--I think jumping in and out of apps would be rather cumbersome. For example, if I'm playing an IG opponent with my SM--I would find it too time consuming to jump out of my SM app---then start an IG app---if I wanted to reference a rule he was using.

To build on IBodger--since 40k books tend to have army centric special rules as well--it would be pretty neat to have that as a indexed option. So I click on "Rules Reference" and I'm listed with two options;

Option 1: Semantic search for rule
Option 2: Select Codex Category--and it lists all USR and army centric rules it utilizes.

So I click on Imperial Guard and brings up;

Orders
--First rank, second rank
--Get Back in the fight!
etc.

I can then click on any of those and display what it is. So if my opponent says it does something--and I am unsure (or pretty sure) it does not--click, click, click and I know.



Just some thoughts--I think you have a great idea and IApps have been pretty rare for 40k. I would be willing to pay for such an app too--just as some free market research .

This looks very nice. Any chance of an Android version?

I also agree that this app is great. I especially like the design you set up: clean and simple. The photos of the models with the codex artwork for each unit in the background is a really nice aesthetic touch in my opinion. If you were able to make these kinds of apps for different codicies, that would be fantastic.

Something I was wondering--under units like flayed ones, the upgrades they can take are listed (ie disruption fields), but on the necron lord, for example, all of the extra abilites he can take (like the veil of darkness or ressurection orb) aren't. Am I missing something, or is this a feature you haven't included yet?

Something else I thought I'd suggest as far as organizing the app goes. On the main unit list screen, it might be nice to include a header over each force org section. I know you followed the same order as the codex and included breaks between each section, but it might make it easier for those unfamiliar with the codex if you included something like:
HQ:
Necron Lord

Elites:
.....

And so on. Anyways, just my two cents. Overall a really nice app! Keep up the good work!

Just be aware that if your app is a success, GW will shut it down and make a similar one themselves in the future. Not GW-bashing, just stating the (fairly) obvious.

Don't have an iphone so can't look at it myself.

But if it contains info from a Codex, it most certainly is illegal.
If not, it is not useful.

By the sound of it, it most certainly is illegal and soon shut down by GW.

Kroothawk wrote:Don't have an iphone so can't look at it myself.

But if it contains info from a Codex, it most certainly is illegal.
If not, it is not useful.

By the sound of it, it most certainly is illegal and soon shut down by GW.

Did you read the Legal Note??

Slowburner wrote:Legal Note
Please be aware that Games Workshop are advised of the application, and I have discussed it some length with their legal team.
My original application was not authorized, but some allowance has been provided.
In strict accordance with their instructions therefore, I have made suitable alterations and released it as a Necron Codex for the iPhone.
The conception, design and program code belongs to me, but all content which belongs to GW is used without challenge and without seeking profit from their legal property.

Downloading it right now, will type thoughts as I go.

1. GW will steal this from you, one way or another. Your best hope is to work cooperatively with them so you get something for it. I am guessing they lack the expertise to produce this themselves or they would have done. Or they are using you as a test driver.

Make sure you are clear what you expect from them, should this take off. Don't aim too high though or you will just be told "Nope", be shut down and someone cheaper will produce this.

Ok I'm in. Loading screen is cool and it loads fast.

The scrolling is a bit annoying, doesn't quite go to the bottom line in the special rules in the Necron Lord

Is the living metal text right for the monolith, it's referred to as a hierophant?

All in all it's very nice, it's tidy, it'd save mucking around and certainly having the special rules and stat lines in a convenient place is handy. I assume the idea is to have a list of each upgrade option for each model? A mini codex is long overdue from GW, if they want to compete they need to get into this market. It doesn't need to be an army builder app but an app like yours which features all of the core rules, psychic powers, weapon profiles and stats would be amazingly beneficial to have sitting at the table.

Just downloaded last night. If you have their support, as your legal portion of the first post says, can you PLEASE make a Black Templar one? And a Chaos Daemon one? I'll be your best friend if you do. Of course, some might consider that grounds to NEVER make one and scrap the entire idea

Check your PM man I was thinking of making something like this.

I doubt GW will steal it, they have been lobbying the world's leaders to shut off the internets so we can all go back to 1992.

It's a good idea though, will they let you do it for any codex, or just the old ones? It would be great if you could have every codex in there eventually, in one big app, and you can just add the codexes you want onto it

It's good to see GW gave you the go ahead to do this.

I think it looks snazzy. I'm without a iPhone/Pod/Pad however so can't check it out.

I wonder if them letting you use the Necron codex is a firm indication of something iminent that's more plastic in nature.

Downloaded it and looked it over. Its very nice as a reference. Since I dont't play Necrons, it is hard to tell how it would work as an actua a codex to make a list, as opposed to quick rule look ups.

A couple things:

1) Is it possible, for example, to put the weapon profile right next to the weapon name, so that when you click on 'necron warrior' and it shows gauss rifle, that you could see the base profile right on the same line, special rules could then continue under the tab.

2) Under wargear and special rules, they tend to be wordy, which I realize is GWs way. If there were a way to get to the crux of the rule, without the fluff or extraneous stuff, that would be ideal.

I realize on 2) that as a codex, you want to keep all of the same info as in the actual book, for consistency.

I wonder if this type of app would work to resurrect the old weapons and wargear book from years ago. Having all the USRs, wargear and weapons for all the codexes in one app that can be updated easily would be great.

Not got an iPhone so I'm not looking... but is this app a substitute for a Codex?

If it does get shut down in the future just make an android version! Its a lot easier to just import apps as you don't need the "app store"..

Or a jailbreak version

any chance you could do a version for ipod? those of us without iphones or android phones are itching to try this app, it looks awesome

Ouze wrote:This looks very nice. Any chance of an Android version?

Thank you.

I'm sorry, I don't do Android myself, but I'm interested to hear people would like one.


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WAAAAGGHH-god wrote:any chance you could do a version for ipod? those of us without iphones or android phones are itching to try this app, it looks awesome

Thanks for your encouragement.

Yes, I do now have a version that runs on iPhone/iPod Touch 3.2 upwards, and it should percolate through by the end of the week.

Looks like a great app, however, I don't have an iphone, just a pod...

Kudos for trying to drag GW into the 21st century!

Rozgarth wrote:I also agree that this app is great. I especially like the design you set up: clean and simple. The photos of the models with the codex artwork for each unit in the background is a really nice aesthetic touch in my opinion.

Thanks very much; I spent a lot of time trying to do justice to the GW artists' work, and I'm glad you like it.

Rozgarth wrote:If you were able to make these kinds of apps for different codicies, that would be fantastic.

Firstly yes, the application as it is will work with the other codices if their content is formatted correctly. The content is not hard-coded - it is a proper dynamic application, reading the data from structured data files. If the data were for Eldar for example, (which I really need to finish at least for myself, so I can use it for my own damn army!) it just shows that data instead of the Necron data.That was the biggest work of the project, and whilst there are images and suchlike, the other codices will pretty much plug straight in.

I would certainly like to obtain a full license for further development, and if that included access to their original artwork, sculptures and mini's etc, it could be a gorgeous app from which they stand to make a profit.

Rozgarth wrote:Something I was wondering--under units like flayed ones, the upgrades they can take are listed (ie disruption fields), but on the necron lord, for example, all of the extra abilites he can take (like the veil of darkness or ressurection orb) aren't. Am I missing something, or is this a feature you haven't included yet?

Ah, this sounds like an error on my part! I thought it was correct, but perhaps my Codex is older? I'll check in to this and see what needs to be changed; thank you.

Rozgarth wrote:Something else I thought I'd suggest as far as organizing the app goes. On the main unit list screen, it might be nice to include a header over each force org section. I know you followed the same order as the codex and included breaks between each section, but it might make it easier for those unfamiliar with the codex if you included something like:
HQ:
Necron Lord
Elites:
And so on. Anyways, just my two cents. Overall a really nice app! Keep up the good work!

Yes, there should have beeen headers for those sections, and actually, there was another screen categorizing the units that got lost somewhere. Since others have suggested it, I'll see what I can do - it'll be about a fortnight away.

Thanks again for the encouragement.



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solkan wrote:How many codices are there for 40k at the moment, something like twelve?

I'm not sure how you structured your app, but it's possible that if you released twelve apps of similar appearance but different data (like you might expect for the different codices) that you'll run into the "app spamming" limits. The people doing app reviews tend to be a bit unpredictable about when that guideline starts getting enforced, though.

This is something I hadn't thought of; thank you for pointing it out.

This was actually designed for a 'one codex - one app' approach, which as you say, will run into problems down the line. But it wouldn't be hard to add another level lower down to the data structure. I could fairly easily add a unit or two from another codex to show how this would work.

Slowburner wrote:
Legal Note
Please be aware that Games Workshop are advised of the application, and I have discussed it some length with their legal team.
My original application was not authorized, but some allowance has been provided.
In strict accordance with their instructions therefore, I have made suitable alterations and released it as a Necron Codex for the iPhone.
The conception, design and program code belongs to me, but all content which belongs to GW is used without challenge and without seeking profit from their legal property.

I wish you all the best, but I hope you know that Games Workshop will never grant you a full license to make a profit from this project. In fact, if they have given you a tentative go-ahead to use the materials you have in the app it is because you are not charging any money for the app.

The moment you look to charge any money for this app, it is likely that GW will serve you with a legal notice to cease work on it.

For example, an app came out called i40K, that was basically a 'blank' army list creator program, where the user had to fill in all the information to make their units and have them in the app. The ONLY GW IP they used were the codex cover artwork to represent each race and in the name of the app (i40K).

They charged $2.99 (I believe). Within a few months the artwork mysteriously disappeared from the app and the name of the app changed to 'iroster' (which is what it still is today). Now, I don't know for sure, but you can almost guarantee that GW had a hand in (rightfully) enforcing their IP rights on this developer to have them make those changes.

So while I do love your app and wish you'd do it for all the codexes, the reality is if you're ever hoping to make a money for your work on this project I think you're in for some hard times ahead.


As for the app itself, I do like the design overall but as has been pointed out (and I'm sure you're aware), not having all the wargear options for the Lord is an issue if you're trying to use this as a full replacement for the codex in gaming situations.

That and the Living Metal special rule for the Monolith seems to actually be the Phylcatery wargear rules (with the term 'Lord' replaced with 'Hierophant' for some reason).

Just a few more things I noticed using the app:

Disruption fields should be listed under options for both immortals and necron warriors, but currently aren't. Also, the point cost you have listed for disruption fields under the models you currently have it included under (flayed ones, scarabs) is incorrect. You are using the point cost as if a necron lord were taking it; under the approriate unit entry you will see that the point cost actually varies from model to model so that it is not always 5 points.

Finally, beside the living metal rule which has already been pointed out, you should probably list C'tan under the deceiver and nightbringer's special section, just as you list necron under the units with that special rule in their section. Then, when you tap on C'tan, it will show you all of the benefits that being a C'tan allow, such as being monstrous, necrodermis, fearless, etc.

Ah, this sounds like an error on my part! I thought it was correct, but perhaps my Codex is older? I'll check in to this and see what needs to be changed; thank you.

Maybe I can be a little more clear. I'm talking about how a lord is able to take up to 100 points of wargear from the listed section, such as veil of darkness, ressurection orb, chronometron, etc. Hopefully that makes a little more sense.

I'll see what I can do - it'll be about a fortnight away.

I can't wait to see how the update turns out; if you incorporate all of the things mentioned so far, this will be one of the most useful 40k resources around. Keep it up.

I would love to see an iphone app that allowed me access to my codex information on the fly. And of course the dream of the mobile army builder.

I've no idea what the licensing costs would be, I assume a very high initial investment plus royalties, but I do want to encourage you to pursue it.

I will gladly do all I can to support this endeavor, But I suppose the question I would ask is what do you need from us? It might be a really interesting thing to put up on kickstarter as well if you need starting capital for a not free version using licensed material.

Slowburner wrote:

solkan wrote:How many codices are there for 40k at the moment, something like twelve?

I'm not sure how you structured your app, but it's possible that if you released twelve apps of similar appearance but different data (like you might expect for the different codices) that you'll run into the "app spamming" limits. The people doing app reviews tend to be a bit unpredictable about when that guideline starts getting enforced, though.

This is something I hadn't thought of; thank you for pointing it out.

This was actually designed for a 'one codex - one app' approach, which as you say, will run into problems down the line. But it wouldn't be hard to add another level lower down to the data structure. I could fairly easily add a unit or two from another codex to show how this would work.

To deal with the twelve app thing, why not put all of the space marine codexes into one app? The main screen has the different armies, and you just click on the one you want. That should bring it down to a total of like 6 apps, plus the marine app

If you are using this as an extension of your 40k hobby I say go for it!

I just d/l it and it does look pretty neat as a base for future development.

Kijamon wrote:1. The scrolling is a bit annoying, doesn't quite go to the bottom line in the special rules in the Necron Lord
2. Is the living metal text right for the monolith, it's referred to as a hierophant?
3. I assume the idea is to have a list of each upgrade option for each model?
4. It doesn't need to be an army builder app but an app like yours which features all of the core rules, psychic powers, weapon profiles and stats would be amazingly beneficial to have sitting at the table.

1. Assuming you see only two rows for Necron Lord as I do, the empty rows are created by the system to fill the gap in the table. It has to be like that because I've designed a single table size for every unit there is, so some overflow by far too many lines, and some have too few lines like Necron Lord. (Let me know if that's not what you mean, though please.)
2. That's an error in the data; thank you. There's only me working on it, so I do miss things. If I did another one, or a more serious revision, maybe I could find a few people to check the data on beta versions?
3. Yes, in my current Alpha version, when you go to the 'detail' screen (the second screen, with the graphic in the background), the Special Rules are left out, and there is a button showing the points for each upgrade or weapon option in the unit's list. I intend an extra row where there are rules for those options and upgrades, such as for the Eldar Farseer (from memory) "Unit must choose 3 of 4 wargear items" and "Unit may choose up 4 of additional options".
4. It wasn't the original intention to produce a codex, but what happened as a compromise with GW. But I agree with you and all the others that have suggested it. Again, this would depend on GW coming to the party.

Thanks for your encouragement, your thoughts and suggestions!

With regard to point 3, would it be of interest to forum users if I were to post screenshots of the troop calculator Alpha as it develops? That would need to be a separate post.


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Kirasu wrote:If it does get shut down in the future just make an android version! Its a lot easier to just import apps as you don't need the "app store"..
Or a jailbreak version

I've complied with their instructions for this one, so we can assume this Necron Codex will continue unmolested. I don't imagine it will be of very useful after much anticipated releases later this year, unfortunately.


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timetowaste85 wrote:Just downloaded last night. If you have their support, as your legal portion of the first post says, can you PLEASE make a Black Templar one? And a Chaos Daemon one? I'll be your best friend if you do. Of course, some might consider that grounds to NEVER make one and scrap the entire idea

Again, GW hold all the cards as regards other codices, but I am keeping a list of those that are requested by people who download it, such as yourself, thank you. It's perhaps worth saying that on the App Store feedback, so they can read it for themselves.

And hey, great; I'd love to be your friend! I could play you on Saturdays, and my other friend on Sundays ...

Cruentus wrote:Downloaded it and looked it over. Its very nice as a reference.

Thanks!

Cruentus wrote:Since I dont't play Necrons, it is hard to tell how it would work as an actua a codex to make a list, as opposed to quick rule look ups.

A couple things:

1) Is it possible, for example, to put the weapon profile right next to the weapon name, so that when you click on 'necron warrior' and it shows gauss rifle, that you could see the base profile right on the same line, special rules could then continue under the tab.

2) Under wargear and special rules, they tend to be wordy, which I realize is GWs way. If there were a way to get to the crux of the rule, without the fluff or extraneous stuff, that would be ideal.

I realize on 2) that as a codex, you want to keep all of the same info as in the actual book, for consistency.

(3) I wonder if this type of app would work to resurrect the old weapons and wargear book from years ago. Having all the USRs, wargear and weapons for all the codexes in one app that can be updated easily would be great.

1) This is a good idea, thanks. I did play around with what information was in each row a lot, but it gets cluttered very quickly as we can see from the army calculator apps that are out there alreay - more is not always better, unfortunately. My current army calculator Alphas have the item name and a button with the points value on, but I can't get much more in without it looking ghastly. Plus, if it's too small, you can't get your fingers in, of course.

2) Yes, that is an issue, and some parts of my app are copied from versions online where the wording is different to GW's. If we wanted to paraphrase the text, it's doable, but again, a major undertaking that would require a small team putting in a lot of work.

3) Yes, as I said to another member, you can present the information in different ways, as say a weapons list, or a rule list. As you add more codices, those lists become more complete, though also very long indeed and you start to have to peck letters into the search field, which isn't much fun. It would be quite easy to do an application that listed say, rules, and gathered them all together.

It looks awsome, but it says I need the 4.3 update to run it and my 3g is too old : (.