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2011/08/29 13:42:08
Subject: Libya: Towns rejoice as they're freed from Ghadaffi by rebels, and other stories
A video, so can't really post it here. Essentially, it's showing the reactions of the townspeople, and the frankly weird things left behind by the Libyan military. Like mobile tank-mounted howitzers, or ten brand new Mercedes cars.
Witness: Gadhafi's troops killed nearly 150 prisoners From Arwa Damon and Kareem Khadder, CNN August 29, 2011 9:23 a.m. EDT
Salahuddin, Libya (CNN) -- It's a harrowing story -- even by the standards of blood-soaked Libya.
Muneer Masoud Own, 33, who made a living doing manual labor, said forces loyal to longtime Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi slaughtered nearly 150 prisoners as rebels closed in on Tripoli last week.
Charred bodies littered the ground around a warehouse -- roughly 30 feet by 45 feet -- where the detainees were kept. A volunteer who helped remove them, Bashir Own, estimated that he had seen about 150 bodies. He is not related to Muneer Own, who said he barely escaped an ordeal that started about a month ago.
In early August, Muneer Own said, he and his 30-year-old brother were walking toward their grandfather's home when pro-Gadhafi forces detained them for reasons that were not explained. He said they were handcuffed, blindfolded and put into a warehouse with about 60 others who ranged in age from 17 to 70.
Over the next 18 days, Gadhafi's forces kept bringing detainees, Own said. Soon, about 175 people were crammed inside the warehouse, near the headquarters of the Libyan military's 32nd Brigade -- a much-feared unit led by one of Gadhafi's sons, Khamis.
Own said he endured horror and deprivation in the warehouse.
"I don't know how I survived those moments. They were abusing us and beating us," Own said. "All I was thinking of was going home. I was dreaming of freedom."
In the three days before he made his escape even as others around him were killed, the detainees had no food or water, Own said. The warehouse filled with the stench of human waste.
Then, suddenly, Own and the others found a reason to hope: Guards said they would soon release everyone. It was all they talked about for a day or so.
Just before sunset on the promised day of release, guards opened the warehouse doors, Own said, but the door did not lead to freedom. He said the guards tossed a grenade into the warehouse and started shooting.
Dozens fell dead.
Own ran for his life. He said about two dozen others managed to escape, but he lost track of his brother in the chaos. He has not heard from his brother since that day, he said, and assumes that he did not survive.
When rebels finally took over the base and residents felt safe enough to approach the warehouse, all they found were charred remains. Volunteers said they pulled out at least 150 bodies, the majority of them unrecognizable.
In another corner of the lot, piles of dug-up earth teemed with maggots. More bodies were found there.
People found a handful of papers that could help identify the victims, but no one is sure. Many of the victims may remain unknown, their families left without answers to their fate.
More brutality from a falling regimeas they brutally execute prisoners seemingly taken at random.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/29 13:42:27
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2011/08/29 14:26:58
Subject: Re:Libya: Towns rejoice as they're freed from Ghadaffi by rebels, and other stories
Have we started the countdown clock yet for the increased civil unrest,internal strife and arrival of certain "terrorist types" that forces U.S. occupation?
I doubt that'll happen, as the last thing Obama wants is to send troops into yet another hostile muslim-culture country.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/29 17:42:19
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2011/08/29 18:44:39
Subject: Libya: Towns rejoice as they're freed from Ghadaffi by rebels, and other stories
A hostile Muslim culture that happens to be the 10th largest oil producing country in the world? Nope, can't see Obama or Call Me Dave sending troops in there, no siree......
2011/08/29 18:46:00
Subject: Libya: Towns rejoice as they're freed from Ghadaffi by rebels, and other stories
Call-Me-Dave, sure, but Obama has enough problems as it is. Besides, the rebels are winning at this rate, they actually have control over Tripoli, the capital, and plenty of other major cities. It's kinda hard to wage a war with a regular army when you can't move openly.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/29 18:48:28
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2011/08/29 18:47:50
Subject: Libya: Towns rejoice as they're freed from Ghadaffi by rebels, and other stories
Also, in another recent article, they said they freed Ghadaffi's propaganda minister. Their reasoning behind this?
"What is the point of keeping him; the man is mad!"
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2011/08/29 18:53:34
Subject: Libya: Towns rejoice as they're freed from Ghadaffi by rebels, and other stories
All this talk of propaganda ministers and the lack of clarity as to whether or not there are NATO troops on the ground in Libya just makes me think of:
2011/08/29 21:33:32
Subject: Libya: Towns rejoice as they're freed from Ghadaffi by rebels, and other stories
sarpedons-right-hand wrote:It's surprising how fast you can move when you are carrying 10lbs of C4 in a warzone....
In any case, shall we just let the rebels get on with it? Sure NATO have been helping, but according to our Govt, no troops have been deployed. Yet.
They are lying.
Yes, it's obvious tactical assistants and other tactical officers are there.
Well, them and the marines that were there floating off-shore just a few months ago. I'd be surprised if that sort of activity wasn't still carrying on in some form or another at the moment...
This to my mind at least is precisely how it should be done. Don't do it for them, but help to add the clout the uprising needs to succeed.
I'm highly optimistic about this Arab Spring, mostly because rather than an organised coup, with a figurehead to lead it (Dictator in Waiting if you will) this appears to mostly be the people themsleves doing it.
2011/08/29 21:53:50
Subject: Libya: Towns rejoice as they're freed from Ghadaffi by rebels, and other stories
dogma wrote:The thing is, that kind of assistance is easy to end.
Colloquially, "troop deployment" generally means major action by regular ground combat forces.
To who? That's not how I would take it. I would take it to mean 'the deployment of troops'. What would you call the presence of US troops in Germany, or British troops in Cyprus? It's a deployment, right?
I was surprised there wasn't a Dakka thread on this. We all stop paying attention and then....the rebels won. Craziness. Definately seemed like it would go the other way there for a while.
2011/08/29 22:39:14
Subject: Libya: Towns rejoice as they're freed from Ghadaffi by rebels, and other stories
Theyr'e still facing troubles, ammunition shortages etc. But there's only a few mercenary holdouts and a few regular regiments still loyal to Ghadaffi from what I can gather.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2011/08/29 22:42:04
Subject: Libya: Towns rejoice as they're freed from Ghadaffi by rebels, and other stories
Did anyone see that video of the guy who fires his gun up in the air and almost shoots the guy behind him in the face? The guy kind of crawls off like "HOLY SH*T".
Automatically Appended Next Post: It was actually on MSNBC if you feel like looking it up or something.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/29 22:45:24
May the the blessings of His Grace the Emperor tumble down upon you like a golden fog. (Only a VERY select few will get this reference. And it's not from 40k. )
2011/08/29 22:46:01
Subject: Re:Libya: Towns rejoice as they're freed from Ghadaffi by rebels, and other stories
I've seen the reports were they were firing the mortars in the wrong direction. Seriously, how did you guys win? Actually I do. You guys better start thanking Jesus for NATO air cover.
2011/08/30 00:41:05
Subject: Libya: Towns rejoice as they're freed from Ghadaffi by rebels, and other stories
Albatross wrote:
To who? That's not how I would take it. I would take it to mean 'the deployment of troops'. What would you call the presence of US troops in Germany, or British troops in Cyprus? It's a deployment, right?
I meant in the context of theatre operations, as in the case of Libya. For example, there is a difference between the deployment of special forces, and the deployment of an armored brigade, a difference which most media sources, at least, will recognize.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2011/08/30 00:43:45
Subject: Libya: Towns rejoice as they're freed from Ghadaffi by rebels, and other stories
GalacticDefender wrote:Did anyone see that video of the guy who fires his gun up in the air and almost shoots the guy behind him in the face? The guy kind of crawls off like "HOLY SH*T".
Troy wrote:The so called freedom fighters are not giving up the Lockerbie terrorist. Yea this is going to turn out great.
One mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist. As for Abdelbaset Al Magrahi, he's finally dying. Let him go. And if there is some sort of diety that you pray too, ask it to make his death a painful one eh?
This is one 'war' that we should stay as far away from as possible. Let the dust settle and then step in and help out with new infrastructures, hospitals, police stations etc etc.
For once America and Britain should just butt out and let them get on with it......
2011/08/30 13:52:27
Subject: Libya: Towns rejoice as they're freed from Ghadaffi by rebels, and other stories
I'd say they're rebels rather than terrorists or freedom fighters, myself.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2011/08/30 22:24:33
Subject: Libya: Towns rejoice as they're freed from Ghadaffi by rebels, and other stories
Troy wrote:The so called freedom fighters are not giving up the Lockerbie terrorist. Yea this is going to turn out great.
The guy's comatose and on death's door. Nothing at all will be gained from detaining or killing him now.
People are like dice, a certain Frenchman said that. You throw yourself in the direction of your own choosing. People are free because they can do that. Everyone's circumstances are different, but no matter how small the choice, at the very least, you can throw yourself. It's not chance or fate. It's the choice you made.
Kabal of the Void Dominator - now with more purple! 
)
Seriously, how did you guys win? Actually I do. You guys better start thanking Jesus for NATO air cover.
