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Made in us
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Troy wrote:
dogma wrote:
Troy wrote:
Except of course, thats not the case. The ME has not been stable since the Sassanids. North Africa hasn't been stable since the Pax Romana.


You mean the Ottomans, not the Sassanids. But then given you claim about North Africa, I'm also wondering what you mean by "stable".

The Ottomans had to routinely put down revolts especially in the Arabian peninsula. They were only occasionally stable.


Revolts caused primarily by western interference. And your going to tell me with a straight face that mali wasn't a stable prosperous country. Hell Timbuktu was the center of learning in the arabic worlds (and given the state of knowledge in europe) it was second only to the Chinese.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
"Balance, playtesting - a casual gamer craves not these things!" - Yoda, a casual gamer.
Three things matter in marksmanship -
location, location, location
MagickalMemories wrote:How about making another fist?
One can be, "Da Fist uv Mork" and the second can be, "Da Uvver Fist uv Mork."
Make a third, and it can be, "Da Uvver Uvver Fist uv Mork"
Eric
 
   
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USA

dogma wrote:Well, you don't see the "REAL" results, unless you've made it a point to frequent countries in which Sharia is the law of the land, or paid attention beyond the occasional news report or journalistic account.
Or done research on the subject beyond the occasional news account, including interviews of expatriates?

Yes, I know that there's more to things merely sensationalist stories on the news.
dogma wrote:Additionally, you seem to think that Sharia is one, monolithic, thing. It isn't, and practices vary widely across the Muslim world.
As a whole, it is usually very oppressive, especially to women. It can be interpreted in many ways like all religious texts, and yet the general result ends up like this.

dogma wrote:Homosexuals, and those who differ from the norm, are often persecuted in non-theocracies as well.
Yes, but in this day and age, are not usually persecuted to death by the legal system itself (usually by backwards gakfething trash masquerading as human beings, but they're committing crimes in most non-theocratic countries). I can't really think of a country that uses Sharia law which doesn't believe homosexuality is deserving of the death penalty-- I wouldn't be surprised if one or two such countries existed, but they're by far not the norm.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/09/02 01:34:42


The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
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United States

Melissia wrote:Or done research on the subject beyond the occasional news account, including interviews of expatriates?


Expats are usually bad sources. I mean, they're expats for a reason. This applies to all expats, of course. If you interview an American transplant in France he is likely to have a dim view of America.

Well, "bad" is probably too harsh. You need to take expat interviews in context.

But no, I would say that you cannot see the reality of the situation without experiencing it, anything else is an abstraction. Of course, some people's abstractions are more accurate than the experiential accounts of others.

Melissia wrote:
As a whole, it is usually very oppressive, especially to women. It can be interpreted in many ways like all religious texts, and yet the general result ends up like this.


That's incorrect. It is true of Sharia in the Middle East (for the most part), but there are Muslim nations outside the Middle East that govern their social law according to Sharia. Indonesia and Algeria would be good nations to examine.

Melissia wrote:
Yes, but in this day and age, are not usually persecuted to death by the legal system itself (usually by backwards gakfething trash masquerading as human beings, but they're committing crimes in most non-theocratic countries). I can't really think of a country that uses Sharia law which doesn't believe homosexuality is deserving of the death penalty-- I wouldn't be surprised if one or two such countries existed, but they're by far not the norm.


Really? I can think of at least 10. Indonesia, Algeria, Libya, Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Kazakhstan, Angola, and Mali. There are more.

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
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Australia (Recently ravaged by the Hive Fleet Ginger Overlord)

dogma wrote:
Melissia wrote:
Yes, but in this day and age, are not usually persecuted to death by the legal system itself (usually by backwards gakfething trash masquerading as human beings, but they're committing crimes in most non-theocratic countries). I can't really think of a country that uses Sharia law which doesn't believe homosexuality is deserving of the death penalty-- I wouldn't be surprised if one or two such countries existed, but they're by far not the norm.


Really? I can think of at least 10. Indonesia, Algeria, Libya, Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Kazakhstan, Angola, and Mali. There are more.


This statement is a little disingenous. Technically you're correct in stating that the death penalty isn't administered, but I do know that Syria, Indonesia and Jordan all admister punishment for it.

And none of these countries have a gleamy track record for treatment of women, with Egypt being the exception.

Smacks wrote:
After the game, pack up all your miniatures, then slap the guy next to you on the ass and say.

"Good game guys, now lets hit the showers"
 
   
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United States

Emperors Faithful wrote:
This statement is a little disingenous. Technically you're correct in stating that the death penalty isn't administered, but I do know that Syria, Indonesia and Jordan all admister punishment for it.

And none of these countries have a gleamy track record for treatment of women, with Egypt being the exception.


It isn't disingenuous. Either a state administers the death penalty for homosexuality (or sodomy, as the case may be) or it doesn't.

Also, Algeria has a better human rights record than Egypt.

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in au
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter






Australia (Recently ravaged by the Hive Fleet Ginger Overlord)

dogma wrote:
Emperors Faithful wrote:
This statement is a little disingenous. Technically you're correct in stating that the death penalty isn't administered, but I do know that Syria, Indonesia and Jordan all admister punishment for it.

And none of these countries have a gleamy track record for treatment of women, with Egypt being the exception.


It isn't disingenuous. Either a state administers the death penalty for homosexuality (or sodomy, as the case may be) or it doesn't.


But the point here is that Sharia law is generally a poor sign when it comes to the humkan rights, women and homosexuals in particular. Not all countries that are governed by Sharia law have the death penalty for homosexuals, but it's always an indication that the nation is unlikely to treat homosexuals (or women) well.

Also, Algeria has a better human rights record than Egypt.


I know next to nothing of the human rights movement in Algeria, so I really couldn't say.

Smacks wrote:
After the game, pack up all your miniatures, then slap the guy next to you on the ass and say.

"Good game guys, now lets hit the showers"
 
   
 
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