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So I've been reading on alot of sites about Mephiston. All I see is people bitching about how good their army is and how awesome it is to take out Mephiston with their awesome 300+ pts squad....

So lets put things into perspective...

Mephiston is good for the following reasons:
- Stat Line is the same or better than all other MC's
- Able to cast 3 very useful powers a turn
- Only 250 Pts for his impressive capabilities

Mephiston is bad for the following reasons:
- No invunerable save
- Not fearless
- Not eternal

So really when you look at it, he may be the toughest and nastiest combat unit ever. But he is still killable. Even a marine squad with plasma guns can take him out.

The funniest thing is when they throw their biggest units at him.

Here is my example.

I played a game a few weeks back.
The player watched on as Mephiston dismantled several portions of his army without suffering a wound then quickly moving safely out of sight.
So to counter Mephiston he decided to throw his 340 Pts Ork nob squad at him, lots of powerclaws, a pain boy, and some other gadgets im not too farmiliar with.
After Mephiston totally the unit in one turn, my enemy decided that he couldnt take him out and then quit.

My point is simple.... Big units dont take out Mephiston, and neither do units full of heavy weapons.
You amazing Str 9 cannon or you amazing Farseer may be able to kill him. But a long ranged cannon wont get a shot if the BA player has even half a brain cell left. And the farseer can just be ignored...

If you want to kill Mephiston.... play the match as though he is just another unit moving around and tackle him when you can. If you let the BA player pull you into killing him the rest of the army will walk right up to you unharmed and pull you apart. My hardest battle was against a player that ignored Mephiston and fought my army not just my beasty Lord of cheese.

The fact that he can be killed hardly counters the fact that he's overpowered for his points cost.

Also, you know what those other MC's have that he doesn't? A gigantic model. A winged hive tyrant or daemon prince can sure be killy in assault, but you can't hide it behind a low ruin wall like you can with Mephiston.

So why would you focus on killing something you cant see?
Wait for him to jumo in then make your move, he cant stay alive forever....

If he charges a unit, move a unit close that can make his 2+ save worthless...

If you have no units close.... go fight the rest of the army and then he'll be alone anyway against ur army...

You don't seem to understand why it's broken.

Monstrous creatures have their stat line and other bonuses, but it is offset by the fact that they are large models and very easy to draw line of sight to.

Mephiston has their stat line, but he's a human sized model. He can also move as if he had a jump pack. It's basically taking the best of a jump pack equipped Space Marine character, a monstrous creature, and wrapped neatly in some ridiculous psychic power rules, for less points than you pay for a naked winged Hive Tyrant. Special characters still need to be balanced, and he is far from being balanced.

-Loki- wrote:You don't seem to understand why it's broken.

Monstrous creatures have their stat line and other bonuses, but it is offset by the fact that they are large models and very easy to draw line of sight to.

Mephiston has their stat line, but he's a human sized model. He can also move as if he had a jump pack. It's basically taking the best of a jump pack equipped Space Marine character, a monstrous creature, and wrapped neatly in some ridiculous psychic power rules, for less points than you pay for a naked winged Hive Tyrant. Special characters still need to be balanced, and he is far from being balanced.

+1 This!

Old Mephie raises the bar too far... especially for a character that isn't even a factor leader (not the Chapter Master) and meets/exceeds some fan stats for playable primarchs!

At least he can't join squads anymore. But being filled with that much Gouda you'd have to ask yourself, would you follow him?

You for got the most important thing.... psychic hood.

Mephiston is a Librarian, and with an increasingly psy-heavy game, you want one of those.

If you spend 100 pts on your basic Librarian (no Inv.save, EW, or any of that kind either), you got to ask yourself how much you want to invest to make the Libby "survivable" and/or more "multifunctional" beyond hamstringing your opponents psy. Sooner or later, most people realize that 150 points for some Artificer Armour, extra wounds, extra T, etc.. isn't that bad of a deal even if Mephiston wouldn't be able to double-in as a second-tier MC. That he can do that on occassion is just gravy. His "MC-likeness" isn't the reason to take him though, it's having survivable (unless you charge him straight into the oppnents Death-star) anti-psy.

My rune priest shuts down his psychic powers and my GH packs with meltas and plasma guns drop him from the safety of their Rhino transports.

Meph is a crutch for almost every single BA player I have played.

Brother Ramses wrote:My rune priest shuts down his psychic powers and my GH packs with meltas and plasma guns drop him from the safety of their Rhino transports.

Meph is a crutch for almost every single BA player I have played.

Some armies can deal with him... others have no chance. Crutch or not, if he shows up and your army just doesn't even have the tools available to deal with him, its going to be a pretty unfun game.

I think he is completely fair my oppenent is to scarred to let him get close to my bloodthrister

Him not having an invuln save, eternal warrior, or being able to join units balances him out a bit. I did have a hard time killing him with my IG, as he was able to hide behind vehicles before I could get a good shot on him. I think he could stand to be a little more expensive but I'm not gonna cry cheese or anything.

Gekoguy wrote:
My point is simple.... Big units dont take out Mephiston, and neither do units full of heavy weapons.

I think you mean deathstar units, not big units. Big units absolutely kill Mephiston. After Mephiston kills 5 Ork Boyz, the other 25 just take their swings and kill him right back.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Gekoguy wrote:
My point is simple.... Big units dont take out Mephiston, and neither do units full of heavy weapons.

I think you mean deathstar units, not big units. Big units absolutely kill Mephiston. After Mephiston kills 5 Ork Boyz, the other 25 just take their swings and kill him right back.

No they don't. 25 shootaboys (because who takes slugga boys now-a-days) put just barely 4 wounds onto Mephy with the return swings. (assuming mephy got the charge because of his wings). Mephy wins combat by 5 and the boys take another 5 wounds. Repeat. Mephy chews boy squads up. The only thing that has a chance is the nob. Doing 1 powerclaw wound a turn is still going to take 5 turns to drop him.

I've been playing BAs for 12 years, owned the Mephiston model for everyone of them; never used it. He's an eggs in one basket strategy. Great one model unit that can be a wrecking ball, but not essential to any list I've built.
Currently he's got a crazy Carnifex statline, a tiny model, and no invul. He's overpowered and easy to kill all in one.

Brother SRM wrote:Him not having an invuln save, eternal warrior, or being able to join units balances him out a bit. I did have a hard time killing him with my IG, as he was able to hide behind vehicles before I could get a good shot on him.

You just answered why not having an invulnerable save, eternal warrior or being able to join units is not a weakness for him.

The game now uses TLOS. Like it or not, it's the game now. He is a monstrous creature but with a human sized model. Hiding him from things that would be able to kill him while keeping him in assault range is incredibly easy. Something that monstrous creature model size it meant to alleviate.

You can do all the theoryhammer you want on how it's easy to nail him with 15 railgun shots in a turn because he's never in a unit, but when you start playing, to better hope there's nothing taller than a hedge, otherwise you're never going to get to fire those at him before he's in assault.

my army is made to take out space marines, thats why I have yet to lose a game against marines, because my plasma and melta list proves that vanillia marines can just be as good with vulkan hestan and my balancing of use, sternguard + tank heavy + heavy troop choices that can get the job done.

Jayden63 wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

Gekoguy wrote:
My point is simple.... Big units dont take out Mephiston, and neither do units full of heavy weapons.

I think you mean deathstar units, not big units. Big units absolutely kill Mephiston. After Mephiston kills 5 Ork Boyz, the other 25 just take their swings and kill him right back.

No they don't. 25 shootaboys (because who takes slugga boys now-a-days) put just barely 4 wounds onto Mephy with the return swings. (assuming mephy got the charge because of his wings). Mephy wins combat by 5 and the boys take another 5 wounds. Repeat. Mephy chews boy squads up. The only thing that has a chance is the nob. Doing 1 powerclaw wound a turn is still going to take 5 turns to drop him.

Make that 1.5 wound per turn... so Meph dies in 2 full turn of CC if stuck with boyz (Meph will kill 20 boyz... guess who's winning point wise). Any lucky blow the normal boyz get in only makes this faster. It is a random game too, don't forget it's always possible for that nob to luck out and do 3 wound in one turn to Meph, while 5-6 wounds is the most Meph will ever do.

The problem isn't mephiston, it's blood angel players who are smart enough to support him rather than have him charge heads on into the biggest squad they see by himself... luckily, smart BA players are pretty rare in my area, but I'm terrified of ever encountering one.

I'd say Mephy is pretty nasty. I rarely run him anymore because I can just tell my opponents aren't having a good time.

The main thing about him is that his presence is game-changing. You pretty much HAVE to kill the dude, or he is going to wreck your whole army.

I don't buy the "just ignore him" line. You *can't* ignore him. I literally just tabled my friend's DE army with Mephy single handedly the other day. My assault squads didn't even get out of their transports.

This, to me, isn't fun. Yes, he's "easy" to kill on paper, but in reality he's not.

And, no, Ork boyz don't kill him at all. I will gladly charge Mephy into a 30 strong squad of boyz. Never had him lose yet. I think people are forgetting that Mephy will put down 5 - 6 orks a turn through straight kills, and then another 3 or 4 from No Retreat wounds... and then once the squad falls under 10, he simply cuts them down with his I6 when they run. Takes 3 - 4 combat turns, tops (assuming he is unsupported - which he never is).

Xenocidal Maniac wrote: I think people are forgetting that Mephy will put down 5 - 6 orks a turn through straight kills, and then another 3 or 4 from No Retreat wounds

5 on a charge maybe, 4 any other turn. He then takes 1-2 wounds every turn. He has 5 wounds, they have 30; they are there when he is only a corpse.

Isnt he t6? Which in effect makes him an enternal warrior, except for force weapons. Personally as guard i dont find him too scary, due to the amount of plasmaguns and meltas. But like any other matt ward fanboi wankery he is undercost and overpowered.

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:he is undercost and overpowered.

So goes the cry of everyone who is terrible at 40k.

DarknessEternal wrote:

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:he is undercost and overpowered.

So goes the cry of everyone who is terrible at 40k.

So are shoota boyz.
Next?

DarknessEternal wrote:

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:he is undercost and overpowered.

So goes the cry of everyone who is terrible at 40k.

Cant tell if its a troll, or if he's just stupid.

Please review DakkaDakka Rule Number One: Be Polite. Thanks ~Manchu

I just charged him with a huskblade archon to wound = win

Squad of marines huh? Nah, I had a squad of GUARDSMEN(!) that almost took him down in one turn. Then the fool jumped over a building and assulted that squad of guardsmen.. he killed *1* of them and the rest of the guard wounded him again, he was down to one wound now and was dead the next turn if the game didn't end.

tilarium wrote:Squad of marines huh? Nah, I had a squad of GUARDSMEN(!) that almost took him down in one turn. Then the fool jumped over a building and assulted that squad of guardsmen.. he killed *1* of them and the rest of the guard wounded him again, he was down to one wound now and was dead the next turn if the game didn't end.

Very nice tactics you got there, I can see why he is so easy!

Mephiston is hard, there's no denying that. If you aren't careful he will sink his fangs into your army easily. Hell, his good movement can be downright hard to avoid. If you approach him with the right tools you can dismantle him like any unit in this game. Mephiston isn't fond of Plasma and Melta too much, and if you can actually get a force weapon off of him, God bless ya'.

DarknessEternal wrote:

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:he is undercost and overpowered.

So goes the cry of everyone who is terrible at 40k.

Oh no you didn't...

CT GAMER wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:he is undercost and overpowered.

So goes the cry of everyone who is terrible at 40k.

Oh no you didn't...

OHYESHEDID. No, but seriously, there's got to be SOME way of fighting him, right?

Justus wrote:

tilarium wrote:Squad of marines huh? Nah, I had a squad of GUARDSMEN(!) that almost took him down in one turn. Then the fool jumped over a building and assulted that squad of guardsmen.. he killed *1* of them and the rest of the guard wounded him again, he was down to one wound now and was dead the next turn if the game didn't end.

Very nice tactics you got there, I can see why he is so easy!

Mephiston is hard, there's no denying that. If you aren't careful he will sink his fangs into your army easily. Hell, his good movement can be downright hard to avoid. If you approach him with the right tools you can dismantle him like any unit in this game. Mephiston isn't fond of Plasma and Melta too much, and if you can actually get a force weapon off of him, God bless ya'.

Lasguns... a squad with a flamer (that wasn't able to attack with the rest), 8 lasguns, and a las pistol. Just really good/lucky dice rolls for me.

People I encounter often just tell me I'm jealous of Mephiston, Draigo, Logan Beefnar, Ghaskgul, or (insert any herohammer all-in-one-beefstick character).

Arrogant people say only bad players lose to them, and to just ignore them. But here's the problem.

Ignore Mephiston, kill rest of army, mephiston reaches your lines and wades through everything like weeds.

Ignore rest of army, focus Mephiston, rest of army applies gratuitous violence to your face.



I take issue with how easy to use he is. Characters that are that good shouldn't be just an easy button to win. I haven't met a single BA player that doesn't use him. I haven't met a single GK player who doesn't use Crowe or Draigo spam lists either.

We're closer to 2nd - 3rd edition herohammer days now and it's depressing that it isn't an army wide tactical game anymore, but a "support one godlike unit while you ezmode to victory" game.

Am I the only one that if presented with an exceptionally easy ticket to winning wouldn't take it? Something in me just curls in disgust at not having to try/struggle to win.



TL;DR, experienced exceptional players deal with these beefcake hero's easily making them null. majority of players are steamrolled by the ease with which people just buy them and throw them at other non amazing players and win.