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not the apocalypse stuff but the actual army lists that are included there. would a dread mob be allowed at a tournament for example?

That depends on the tournament, really. Ask the organizer.

tournaments generaly have an allowed codex pool, more often than not IA books are not allowed

In short, no, they are not additions to the codex. They are their own thing.

They are official rules, however - which differentiate them primarily from 'experimental' rules that are not considered to have been adequately playtested. You may use them freely in 'friendly' games. You don't require your opponent's permission to use them in your army, but your opponent has every right to refuse to play against you using that army. In other words all games require your opponent's consent. I've never heard of anyone being forced to play against someone they didn't want to outside of an organised event. Tournaments have exclusive sets of rules that must neccessarily be in place to make it an accessible event using a core system minus expansions. Some allow IA provisions - the vast majority do not.

Imperial Armour is an official expansion used in exactly the same way you would use Cities of Death, Spearhead, Planetstrike or Apocalypse.

thanks for putting it all in perspective guys. i know how to phrase things to the mates now

Until GW says that the FW army lists are Codices in their own right they will only be allowed where the Tournament says so.

GW wil supposedly make such an announcement very soon.

Grey Templar wrote:Until GW says that the FW army lists are Codices in their own right they will only be allowed where the Tournament says so.

GW will supposedly make such an announcement very soon.

Will never happen because forgeworld explicitly says their rules are not tested or balanced like core codexes.

Maybe new forgeworld books moving forward but never a retroactive blanket chapter approved... the game would be crushed under its own imbalance back to 3rd edition levels.

tarnish wrote:thanks for putting it all in perspective guys. i know how to phrase things to the mates now

Yes. Something along the lines of; " Will you please allow me to use this armylist?" would be a good start.

And, as an OT aside, if you're going to use a Latin plural ending, please try to use the right one

Codices.

Grey Templar wrote:Until GW says that the FW army lists are Codices in their own right they will only be allowed where the Tournament says so.

GW wil supposedly make such an announcement very soon.

Where did you hear this and when. If what you say is true, then it'll give me the inspiration to give my Elysians the love they deserve.

FW replied in an e-mail to someone saying that there is a desire to produce tournament versions of their army lists, but that at the moment it was just an idea on a list of things to do.

A letter from FW/GW is about as reliable as a letter from Santa Claus.

FW communication has generally been pretty reliable in my experience.

Cheexsta wrote:And, as an OT aside, if you're going to use a Latin plural ending, please try to use the right one

Codices.

If you are writing in English, however, you are fine.
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/codex

kirsanth wrote:

Cheexsta wrote:And, as an OT aside, if you're going to use a Latin plural ending, please try to use the right one

Codices.

If you are writing in English, however, you are fine.
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/codex

I was referring specifically to the use of "codexi" in the thread title, hence why I said "if you're going to use Latin endings...". Therefore, if anyone in this thread has used "codexes", then my previous statement did not apply to them.

Cheexsta wrote:

kirsanth wrote:

Cheexsta wrote:And, as an OT aside, if you're going to use a Latin plural ending, please try to use the right one

Codices.

If you are writing in English, however, you are fine.
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/codex

I was referring specifically to the use of "codexi" in the thread title, hence why I said "if you're going to use Latin endings...". Therefore, if anyone in this thread has used "codexes", then my previous statement did not apply to them.

thank you so much, im eternally grateful and will correct my spelling to suit your needs in the future

Good to hear.

If its official rules by GW then it stands in my books, I use the Renaged rules when I can and at times the OT says no on my lists. I trust the rules not the hype, if its not official then its hype.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:A letter from FW/GW is about as reliable as a letter from Santa Claus.

Mainly GW

LordWynne wrote:If its official rules by GW then it stands in my books, I use the Renaged rules when I can and at times the OT says no on my lists. I trust the rules not the hype, if its not official then its hype.

What is it you are trying to say here. Please clarify.

Steelmage99 wrote:

LordWynne wrote:If its official rules by GW then it stands in my books, I use the Renaged rules when I can and at times the OT says no on my lists. I trust the rules not the hype, if its not official then its hype.

What is it you are trying to say here. Please clarify.

+1

Grey Templar wrote:Until GW says that the FW army lists are Codices in their own right they will only be allowed where the Tournament says so.

Even if GW does say that then they'll only be allowed where the TO says so.

A more interesting question than the FW lists is the FW units which are additions to regular codexes.

No-one's suggesting the WD units are not official but the attitude to FW units seems to be very different.

Scott-S6 wrote:

No-one's suggesting the WD units are not official but the attitude to FW units seems to be very different.

Depending on what weight and ramifications one puts in the word "official" in this connection, that is as it should be.
WD units and FW units are two very different things.

If one thinks that, in this connection, the word "official" means that one can use the units in a normal non-Expansion game of 40K without the consent of ones opponent, then WD units and FW units are two very different beasts.

FW rules/units (hereafter Imperial Armour) is an expansion and in order to use any of the options presented in said expansion, one has to agree with ones opponent that an Imperial Armour expansion game is in order.
This is just like agreeing to play a Planetstrike game, a Spearhed game and an Apocalypse game.


If one thinks that "official" merely means that the rules are published by GW (and its affiliates), then yes, both WD units and FW units are indeed official and both equally so.

From the foreward of Imperial Armour Apocalypse written by Warwick Kinrade:

As far as we are concerned Codexes and the rulebook are official, everything else is up to the players to use and ignore at will. Want to play on a ruined city board using the City of Death rules variant? Fine. Want to play on a ruined city board without using the rules variants, just using the rules as published in the 40K rulebook? Also fine. The only thing that matters is that both players know this before they start, and both players agree that's the way they want to play the game. So is City of Death official? You can't use it in a tournament! The Imperial Armour rules are just the same...

Do tournaments that allow Forge World even exist? The only one that I have heard of is Adepticon. If I could find one, my Elysians would finally get a chance to spread their wings.

Here in NB we have been testing out allowing FW army lists (note only army lists not just units in regular armies)...it has worked fairly well so far.

acekevin8412 wrote:Do tournaments that allow Forge World even exist? The only one that I have heard of is Adepticon. If I could find one, my Elysians would finally get a chance to spread their wings.

Yes,

its mostly small local tournaments that have only a handful of players and its just for fun.

We usually allow IA lists, but it is subject to the approval of our TO.

They are official enough that they are no longer opponent's permission only, as far as the lists go.

Using the units for other codices, however, requires permission. That is to say:

"Hi, I'm Paul, I'm playing Armored Battlegroup" or "I'm playing Death Korps of Kreig Siege Regiment" gives the opponent a different impression than

"Hi, I'm Paul, I'm playing Imperial Guard" and then plopping down a Bombard or the like with my regular codex list.

The first gives the opponent an idea of what to expect, and if he's uncomfortable he can decline.

The second is a WTF moment for the opponent a lot, and often ends badly.