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I'd like to preface this post by saying that I've been reading this forum for about a month now after randomly finding it. I came into 40k probably a great deal differently than most of you, I started playing the original DoW when it first came out and enjoyed it immensely and picked up every game that came out including the dubious Soulstorm. While waiting for DoW2 I found myself reading the Wikia a great deal and I started buying codices just to read them. After buying about a dozen of them over the last several years I recently talked several of my friends into starting to play the tabletop and just ordered my first pieces a few days ago. I feel like I'm going into 40k almost backwards but I'm loving every minute of it thus far. Thanks to this forum for discussing several topics that I've enjoyed reading a great deal.

Why would it be surprising to see zealots who hate traitors accompanying the Inquisition to arrest someone who has been proclaimed a traitor?


BTW:

Hit "Edit" and put your whole post in spoilers. There's a tag for that.

This makes me want to play the game more than it does spoil it for me.

It's the Journey that matters...

Is it so you don't stop believing, Medium?

Kanluwen wrote:Why would it be surprising to see zealots who hate traitors accompanying the Inquisition to arrest someone who has been proclaimed a traitor?


BTW:

Hit "Edit" and put your whole post in spoilers. There's a tag for that.

Thanks for the tip. Perhaps I'm just looking too much into it, but it seemed awfully convenient to me to see an Inquisitor with Black Templars since I was under the impression that they went out of their way to keep them at arms length as the Inquisition believes they have entirely too many Space Marines as allowed by the Codex Astartes.

The Inquisition can believe whatever the hell they want.

They won't act against the Astartes if they're not idiots.

While the BT and =][= don't necessarily see eye-to-ey I don't think the relationship there is as bad as say the DA and =][=. Anyway, I don't think the Inquisition would gain much knowledge about the BT because the BT send a handful of battle brothers to accompany an Inquisitor.

The funny thing is that the relationship between the Dark Angels and the Inquisition?

It's actually pretty damned good.
The Deathwatch in the Jericho Reach, for example, is said to be heavily led by Dark Angels(or their Successor Chapters) Watch-Captains.

I think the big thing is just that the Dark Angels don't like people nosing around. If an Inquisitor gets too big for his britches and starts poking around in their secret hideyholes, then that Inquisitor is gonna vanish and the Dark Angels will just say "Inquisitor Who? Nope--never seen him!".

All of the above is more than likely true.

However, the creators of the game said this takes place in a parellel dimenision so that may be just be a quirk.

I just need to hold on to that feeeeeeeeeling... of... wonder...

seamless...

Commissar Typhus wrote:All of the above is more than likely true.

However, the creators of the game said this takes place in a parellel dimenision so that may be just be a quirk.

Spoiler:

When you reach the area with the Blood Ravens (of course they had to be there) they do mention being there with a squad of Black Templar but you never see them until then.
A somewhat tainted Ultramarines captain took on a half daemon prince and won by punching him the face (alot) while in mid air... and you wonder why the Inquistor is with
a couple of Black Templars? Just sayin lol

Kanluwen wrote:I think the big thing is just that the Dark Angels don't like people nosing around. If an Inquisitor gets too big for his britches and starts poking around in their secret hideyholes, then that Inquisitor is gonna vanish and the Dark Angels will just say "Inquisitor Who? Nope--never seen him!".

And if that Inquisitor wasn't a nobody but actually had some friends in his Ordo, then that Chapter will just get a visit from someone looking for the missing person.

With heavy weapons.

Lynata wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I think the big thing is just that the Dark Angels don't like people nosing around. If an Inquisitor gets too big for his britches and starts poking around in their secret hideyholes, then that Inquisitor is gonna vanish and the Dark Angels will just say "Inquisitor Who? Nope--never seen him!".

And if that Inquisitor wasn't a nobody but actually had some friends in his Ordo, then that Chapter will just get a visit from someone looking for the missing person.

With heavy weapons.

Let's ask the Ordo Hereticus how that went with Fenris.

Or Baal.

Or Ultramar.

Anytime an Inquisitor gets a bee in his bonnet about the Space Marines and attacks them, it does not end well for the Inquisitor in question--and he usually has called in all the favors he can just to get individuals to come with him to the attack. His actions are condemned afterwards, and the Astartes and Inquisition go on their merry way.

Kanluwen wrote:Anytime an Inquisitor gets a bee in his bonnet about the Space Marines and attacks them, it does not end well for the Inquisitor in question--and he usually has called in all the favors he can just to get individuals to come with him to the attack. His actions are condemned afterwards, and the Astartes and Inquisition go on their merry way.

Tell that to the Sons of Malice, then. I'm sure they'd be delighted to hear they can return home and it was all just a misunderstanding.

Plot armour doesn't apply anywhere. When was the last time you heard of the Rainbow Warriors?

Though that was not my point. The outcome of any battle is meaningless. What I thought was important was that there actually are consequences to pissing off the Inquisition, even for the oh-so-mighty Space Marines. As is quite clearly mentioned in the WH Codex.

Lynata wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Anytime an Inquisitor gets a bee in his bonnet about the Space Marines and attacks them, it does not end well for the Inquisitor in question--and he usually has called in all the favors he can just to get individuals to come with him to the attack. His actions are condemned afterwards, and the Astartes and Inquisition go on their merry way.

Tell that to the Sons of Malice, then. I'm sure they'd be delighted to hear they can return home and it was all just a misunderstanding.

So your example is a Chapter which was one of those set forth around the Eye of Terror?

That's tenuous, at best Lyn.

Plot armour doesn't apply anywhere. When was the last time you heard of the Rainbow Warriors?

5th edition. Or are you referring to that RT drawing of a Sister of Battle shooting a Rainbow Warrior?

Though that was not my point. The outcome of any battle is meaningless. What I thought was important was that there actually are consequences to pissing off the Inquisition, even for the oh-so-mighty Space Marines. As is quite clearly mentioned in the WH Codex.

You do remember that the attack upon Fenris that was mentioned in the WH codex was unprovoked and was essentially an Inquisitor deciding that the Space Wolves are mutants, right?

Kanluwen wrote:
You do remember that the attack upon Fenris that was mentioned in the WH codex was unprovoked and was essentially an Inquisitor deciding that the Space Wolves are mutants, right?

Well they are.



OP: I didn't really think about it. Relic might have just chosen the Black Templars because the armor was black and matched the Inquisitor's outfit better than Blood Ravens or Grey Knights( or any other chapter with armor that isn't black). Why Black Templars over the other black armored Space Marines, like the Raven Guard? Prolly because the BT Chapter symbol looked better than the Raven Guard's while flanking the Inquisitor.

Well that and the Black Templars are renowned for their hatred of the heretic, the traitor, and the xenos.

Kanluwen wrote:So your example is a Chapter which was one of those set forth around the Eye of Terror?

Got a problem with that?

Kanluwen wrote:5th edition. Or are you referring to that RT drawing of a Sister of Battle shooting a Rainbow Warrior?

Given that White Dwarf has hinted at them having been purged, I am. Where have you seen them in 5th edition, though?

Kanluwen wrote:You do remember that the attack upon Fenris that was mentioned in the WH codex was unprovoked and was essentially an Inquisitor deciding that the Space Wolves are mutants, right?

I think you got your fluff mixed up.
The attack on Fenris was not mentioned in the WH Codex, it was mentioned in the SW one.
It was not led by the Inquisition, it was led by the Ecclesiarchy.
It was not unprovoked, it was a reaction to the Space Wolves killing a bunch of priests.
Said priests were not there due to mutation, but to examine the Space Wolves' beliefs.

Unless you're referring to a totally different incident that I haven't heard of - but that's not in the WH Codex.

What is in there is the following list of reasons (in addition to the generic "traitor" narratives, of course) ->

Witch Hunters would fight Space Marines because:

The Chapter's Chaplains are preaching an interpretation of the Imperial Creed deemed heretical, and the Witch Hunters attempt to call the wayward Chapter to account for its beliefs.

It has long been suspected that certain of the Adeptus Astartes Chapters' gene-seed has grown debased and impure since the glorious days of the Great Crusade. The Witch Hunters attempt to gain a sample of the gene-seed, but the Space Marines aren't so keen to cooperate.

The Chapter Master has unexpectedly manifested prodigious psychic powers, calling into question the psychic screening processes of the Chapter. The Witch Hunters cannot allow an entire Chapter of rogue psykers to come into being and resolve to wipe them out before it is too late.

The Chapter's Librarians are able to call upon psychic powers unseen in those of any other Space Marine force, leading the Ordo Hereticus to believe that they are trafficking in knowledge no loyal servant of the Emperor has any right delving into.

Many Space Marine Chapters are notoriously independend and often follow their own agendas with little or no recourse to Imperial policy. One such Chapter has refused to give aid when requested, resulting in the loss of a strategically vital world, and the Ordo Hereticus resolve to bring the Chapter Master to justice.

The Chapter recruits its aspirants from a feral world, and it has recently been discovered that the natives' gene pool is subtly, but irreparably corrupted and has been for millennia. The Ordo Hereticus is not prepared to risk that the Chapter may have inherited the mutations of its homeworld.

As well as this:

"In addition to monitoring the Ecclesiarchy - ensuring that Wars of Faith do not exceed their mandate or that its many Cardinals do not amass more power than deemed appropriate - the Ordo Hereticus keeps a close eye on many other Imperial organisations: the Adeptus Arbites, the Space Marines and also fellow members of the Inquisition. They monitor doctrinal and phsical purity, and no one is beyond their jurisdiction."

And, from the design notes in WD #292, this:

"White it may be tricky (though far from impossible) to explain why an Ultramarines army is fighting a Crimson Fists force, Sisters of Battle players have always had the luxury of knowing their army would fight anyone! The reason for this is simple - anyone can be labeled a heretic, and therefore anyone, even the Imperium's finest, can be called to account by the Sisters, and the sinister Ordo Hereticus."

... in short, Space Marines are pretty independent, but they don't have as much of a "get out of jail free" card as you seem to think. At least not when dealing with the Inquisition.

At least according to GW material, anyhow.

You're really going to use the "Reasons to Fight" as canon?

Jesus. And you say that Black Library's stuff is inconsistent.

Kanluwen wrote:You're really going to use the "Reasons to Fight" as canon?

Jesus. And you say that Black Library's stuff is inconsistent.

Is that supposed to be a counter-argument? You do not even include anything hinting at why you disagree with it.

You don't have to like it, but it's what studio material says. As it has always been the case, since the very first days of Rogue Trader. It never changed.

I thought those were Deathwatch. But yeah looking back on the scene they were Templars. Could have just been an insignia goof by relic as Deathwatch would make more sense given the Ork presence on the world.

In any regard Black Templar may have had some sort of history with Nemeroth and they were seeking retribution. Nemeroth may have been a former member of the Templars, who knows.

Harriticus wrote:I thought those were Deathwatch. But yeah looking back on the scene they were Templars. Could have just been an insignia goof by relic as Deathwatch would make more sense given the Ork presence on the world.

In any regard Black Templar may have had some sort of history with Nemeroth and they were seeking retribution. Nemeroth may have been a former member of the Templars, who knows.

Or it could be that, y'know, the Black Templars were nearby.

There is absolutely nothing that says the Black Templars will not aid the Inquisition. The Deathwatch is also not the Inquisition's babysitter. They work hand in hand quite often, but Deathwatch teams also work in the field with no Inquisitorial oversight outside of basic mission outlines.

Lynata wrote:Is that supposed to be a counter-argument? You do not even include anything hinting at why you disagree with it.

You don't have to like it, but it's what studio material says. As it has always been the case, since the very first days of Rogue Trader. It never changed.

Yeah, because it's not like Space Marines were once drugged up humans who led Imperial Guard forces into battle or anything.

Wait a minute...

Kanluwen wrote:Yeah, because it's not like Space Marines were once drugged up humans who led Imperial Guard forces into battle or anything.

So?

When the design notes on the WH Codex establish that the Sisters' RT fluff is still in effect, then this pretty much means this aspect remained unchanged. Because, y'know, not everything from the RT era got retconned later on.
Not that it would change anything on the current situation even if it were outdated. There's plenty of current era fluff to confirm it.

Lynata wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Yeah, because it's not like Space Marines were once drugged up humans who led Imperial Guard forces into battle or anything.

So?

When the design notes on the WH Codex establish that the Sisters' RT fluff is still in effect, then this pretty much means this aspect remained unchanged. Because, y'know, not everything from the RT era got retconned later on.
Not that it would change anything on the current situation even if it were outdated. There's plenty of current era fluff to confirm it.

I think you've got your fluff mixed up with some SOB fanfic, because the Space Wolves don't go around killing Priests for no reason.

Kanluwen wrote:I think you've got your fluff mixed up with some SOB fanfic, because the Space Wolves don't go around killing Priests for no reason.

Oh, but they had reason (in their eyes) - they took offense at the priestly delegation checking up on them, so they had the guns of the Fang open fire as they approached.

You can read up on it in the Space Wolves Codex - as I mentioned above. My perception of the setting is formed by studio material, not fan-fics - be them licensed or not.

Actually, let me cite the passage for you, whilst we're at it:

The Ecclesiarchy Comes to Fenris - 886.M41
A quorum of Ecclesiarchy officials approaches Fenris, intending to inspect and assess the Space Wolves after hearing rumours of the worship of pagan gods. Amazingly, the Space Wolves open fire upon the Ecclesiarchy as soon as they come in range of the Fang's guns. Almost a year later, the Ecclesiarchy and three Orders of the Adepta Sororitas attempt to enter Fenrisian space in force. The resultant war lasts for three weeks before the Ecclesiarchy decides to let sleeping dogs lie and withdraws its forces.
- 5eC:SW p. 19

Kanluwen wrote:The Inquisition can believe whatever the hell they want.

They won't act against the Astartes if they're not idiots.

Oh, they'll act against the Astartes.

But there's no reason to declare WAR on Astartes. The Inquisition has far more powerful tools to use to cripple an Astartes chapter than mere warfare.

Kanluwen wrote:Well that and the Black Templars are renowned for their hatred of the heretic, the traitor, and the xenos.

Yeah, but Little Jimmy Burkawitz doesn't know that yet. All he sees are two guys in black armor with an awesome symbol of a cross on their shoulders flanking an Inquisitor, taking the Protagonist into a giant spaceship for being tainted.

Melissia wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:The Inquisition can believe whatever the hell they want.

They won't act against the Astartes if they're not idiots.

Oh, they'll act against the Astartes.

But there's no reason to declare WAR on Astartes. The Inquisition has far more powerful tools to use to cripple an Astartes chapter than mere warfare.

And none of them are used unless there's undeniable evidence.

The word of a newly elevated recruit against a Captain is not "undeniable evidence".

Kanluwen wrote:The word of a newly elevated recruit against a Captain is not "undeniable evidence".

That depends on the Inquisitor, especially given the countless witnesses of the various warp powers at work in the place.

For that matter, he went willingly in the end, so it's kinda irrelevant.

Melissia wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:The word of a newly elevated recruit against a Captain is not "undeniable evidence".

That depends on the Inquisitor, especially given the countless witnesses of the various warp powers at work in the place.

Of which almost all would say that Titus had no special "immunity" considering how many times he was immobilized by Warp powers.