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I currently play CSM against a couple friends who play Tau and IG, and we recently decided to put together some 500 point off-armies just for fun. I'm thinking I want to play some Tyranids, but I know almost nothing about them and was hoping to get some advice from you guys! I'm also slightly worried that they might be too similar to my CSMs, which are really assault heavy.

So, what's up with Tyranids? Fun army?

I like em a lot - at 500 points you could do 50 termis, a hive guard and a tervigon (to spam more termis), or 25termis with devourers, or you could do a Prime, 2 Hive Guard, and 20 genestealers...

All kinds of fun to be had.

Tyranids are fun but require a bit more effort than some armies. They need to work together to win. Not like space marines where they can operate independently.

ZombieJoe wrote:Tyranids are fun but require a bit more effort than some armies. They need to work together to win. Not like space marines where they can operate independently.

This basically to a T. You will find that you will need to think and strategize much more than your CSM, simply because the whole army works like a machine and needs each cog in the right place and working correctly. Termagaunts are weak, and really just cannon fodder. But with a Tervigon backing them up (which the Tervigon will be a Troop choice if you take the Gaunts!) then all of a sudden those gaunts have Feel No Pain and have a constant supply of reinforcements. The Hordes tie up the threats to the Monstrous creatures and the big guys come crashing into the weak parts of your opponents! Yes, it is an assault army, but nothing like CSM, IMO.

So, is there anything that prevents the monstrous creatures from being singled out by really powerful weapons and dying to instant death? My IG friend has a S10 AP1 large blast template and my Tau friend has multiple railguns at S10 AP1.

Also, what are the main differences between the termagaunts, genestealers, and other main troops? Or is that too big of a question? I guess I just want to know if there are a couple of different "themes" that a Tyranid army can stick to, or if there are a lot or none at all.

Tangent wrote:So, is there anything that prevents the monstrous creatures from being singled out by really powerful weapons and dying to instant death? My IG friend has a S10 AP1 large blast template and my Tau friend has multiple railguns at S10 AP1.

Besides the fact that most MCs are T6 ((Notable exception - Harpy)? No, there's not. You can mitigate it some on the Hive Tyrant by giving him some Tyrant Guard, but on the Tervigon your only hope is cover.

Also, what are the main differences between the termagaunts, genestealers, and other main troops? Or is that too big of a question? I guess I just want to know if there are a couple of different "themes" that a Tyranid army can stick to, or if there are a lot or none at all.

Genestealers are our expensive "elite" CC units, termagaunts are our shooty-fodder, hormagaunts are our CC fodder, Warriors are Synapse krark missile bait. Generally you want to stick to either shooty or CC - I don't think I've seen a list that does both well - but a list devoted to one or the other generally does well.

You should almost always take Toxin Sacs on the Stealers and hormagaunts, take Devourers on the termagaunts if you can afford it, skip Warriors unless you really need the Synapse. These are just my opinions though.

I would suggest never putting upgrades on cannon fodder. Who ever you use in your front line should be bare bones. Cause they have only one role; give cover to everyone else. The more bodies you have the better. I like using un-upgraded hormagants and gargoyles as front liners cause they are fast and make my opponent nervous. If you take upgraded hormagants, you want them 2nd or 3rd layer down in your defensive bubble wrap. If you take termagants with devourers, put them im spore pod. That is one devastating unit with 60 Strength 4 shorts (if you use 20 gants) that you can position for maximum effect. If you take ubergants (poison and adrenal glands) then I would outflank them using the Hive Commander Ability.

When ever you take an expensive unit, make sure you have a vehicle for safe deployment, whether its spore podes or just lots of cover. Otherwise you wasted a lot of points on more cannon fodder. Cause the first thing people shoot are ubergants!

tyranids are pretty powerful at that low of a point value, they lose their funk at about 2k+ when they run out of FOC slots to take their hammer units and the other army can field enough firepower to reliably kill a T6W6 3+ creature every turn.

I agree and disagree. It's very true that at higher points cost we run out of slot. We really need like an extra one or two troops slots. But, at higher point games we can start running the more deadly stuff too. Upgraded MC's, screens of endless gargolyes. Devourer gants in pods. Lash/bone warriors in pods. The list goes on. I think a better way to think of it, is not that we lose power at higher points but it becomes more challenging to write a list that is still balanced.

ZombieJoe wrote:I agree and disagree. It's very true that at higher points cost we run out of slot. We really need like an extra one or two troops slots. But, at higher point games we can start running the more deadly stuff too. Upgraded MC's, screens of endless gargolyes. Devourer gants in pods. Lash/bone warriors in pods. The list goes on. I think a better way to think of it, is not that we lose power at higher points but it becomes more challenging to write a list that is still balanced.

I played the new bug codex for quite a while when it came out, it is very capabile but at 2k+ games they simply don't have enough ranged anti tank, everything they get outisde of elites they pay a huge premium for. assaulting transports with little bugs gets them all killed.
But yeah, gargoyles are the best point for point models in the game IMHO warriors are mean, the list goes on, but they don't have an answer for 20+ vehicles that isnt a 120 genestealers infiltrating to charge range army

I have a feeling next edition will be less vehicle centric and bugs will become much stronger.

also as a note, I really like the bug codex, but it falls on its face when it comes to logic and its FAQ rulings
rewriting it, with simple things like letting bugs ride a trygon like a dedicated transport so you can actually USE the trygon holes rather than hope for lucky reserves in the right order, would make it a ton more fun and usable.

Nids tend to work best as either an endless swarm created by Tervigons (and pray your opponent doesn't have JotWW) or as an all reserve list. My personal preference is for the later but it isn't really viable at low points were as the former can be a win button at low points cost (it is actually possible to fit 4 Tervigons in at 1000 points which is frankly horrid).

With Nids though the issue is anti-tank. Anti-tank comes from close combat (which has its own inherrent isssues) or from the elite slots. Hiveguard are amazing and work well in the swarm lists, Zoanthropes are short ranged and get hurt bad by psychic defence but tote the best anti-tank gun in the game (S10 Ap1 and LANCE), so they can penetrate a Landraider on a 3+ . In either case fill your elite slots with these troops as much as you can afford within the given points value. At 1500+ you should ideally have 3 elites slots maxed out.

I could not agree with you more that the rules and FAQ are full of brain crushing derp! But, that being said, with all our MC's and all our S4 attacks. We can take out armor. The issue is taking it out when we want to. Blowing up a tank only to get shot down is lame. I haven't played against massive vehicle spam so i cant really say what the best approach is. As long as you bring some deepstriking units and outflanking stealers, then you have a shot at it. And remember, your opponent can't kill you unless he gets out of his tank. So at some point they will have disembark, being patient might be the answer. Unless it guard, but the answer to guard is always genestealers.

And remember, your opponent can't kill you unless he gets out of his tank. So at some point they will have disembark, being patient might be the answer. Unless it guard, but the answer to guard is always genestealers.

Neither guard nor Grey Knnights need to get out of their transports to kill Nids. And if you just wait for your opponent to disembark you are letting him dictate and fight the battle on his terms and that is as good as handing him victory.

Pop transports with Hiveguard, Brain leech devourers and Zoanthropes, pop battle tanks with stealers, and MC close combat!

FlingitNow wrote:Nids tend to work best as either an endless swarm created by Tervigons (and pray your opponent doesn't have JotWW) or as an all reserve list. My personal preference is for the later but it isn't really viable at low points were as the former can be a win button at low points cost (it is actually possible to fit 4 Tervigons in at 1000 points which is frankly horrid).

tervi's are another one, totally up in the air if those 4 tervi's will make 200 gaunts in a game or 16 and blow their O rings

tervi's are another one, totally up in the air if those 4 tervi's will make 200 gaunts in a game or 16 and blow their O rings

The more Tervigons you have the more reliable they are. Like anything the more you have the lower the chance of it going drastically wrong but also the lower the chance of it giving you over the top benefits.

Whilst 4 Tervigons will fairly reliably give you 80-90 Termagaunts averaging just over 20 each (they should statically average 22), you are unlikely to get the huge outlier figures. With 1 Tervigon it could easily pump out 4 Gaunts in 1 game and then 50 in the next, whilst 4 will basically never get you that 50 gants each average it will also basically never leaqve you all dried up with few Termagants in turn 1...

Flingitnow- i never meant you should not still be popping tanks while you wait. lol

I know I know, I just wish they were more reliable, a few tweaks here and there and bugs would be a ton more fun.

Speaking of outlyers, I did play a 1500 game where my opponent rolled 456 almost every single time by turn 4 he had every gaunt both of us owned (at least 200) on the table, I did eek out the win because my opponent wasn't as good, but it was a hugely fun game and I imagine that is how tyranids should play.

rigeld2 wrote:

Tangent wrote:So, is there anything that prevents the monstrous creatures from being singled out by really powerful weapons and dying to instant death? My IG friend has a S10 AP1 large blast template and my Tau friend has multiple railguns at S10 AP1.

Besides the fact that most MCs are T6 ((Notable exception - Harpy)? No, there's not. You can mitigate it some on the Hive Tyrant by giving him some Tyrant Guard, but on the Tervigon your only hope is cover.

Also, what are the main differences between the termagaunts, genestealers, and other main troops? Or is that too big of a question? I guess I just want to know if there are a couple of different "themes" that a Tyranid army can stick to, or if there are a lot or none at all.

Genestealers are our expensive "elite" CC units, termagaunts are our shooty-fodder, hormagaunts are our CC fodder, Warriors are Synapse krark missile bait. Generally you want to stick to either shooty or CC - I don't think I've seen a list that does both well - but a list devoted to one or the other generally does well.

You should almost always take Toxin Sacs on the Stealers and hormagaunts, take Devourers on the termagaunts if you can afford it, skip Warriors unless you really need the Synapse. These are just my opinions though.

Do you have a good suggestion for a 500point shooty list? I'm considering it after reading this thread

Prime- Deathspitter, dual sword 95

Hive guard 50

HG 50

HG 50

Gantsx10 50

Tervigon TS catalyst 185

still got 120 points to go... thinking stealers

Yeah that pretty much is what I would recommend. Or, drop the prime, make the tervigon a hq and spend that 215 on a trygon. At low point levels, people have trouble dealing with MC's. Two six wound MC's will do very well at this level. Otherwise that list needs some kind of kill unit.

Shooty? Well, this isn't too shooty but it'd be a hell of a lot of fun.



OOH! I like this one too. MCs 4tmfw.

So, looking on the GamesWorkshop website, they don't seem to have a lot of the models mentioned in the codex. Two come mind right now - the Tyrannofex or whatever it's called and the Harpy. Are these models discontinued or something?

No, they just don't exist. Neither does the Tervigon, or the Mycetic Spore, or Warrior Primes. You get to convert for them.

Olenos wrote:Prime- Deathspitter, dual sword 95

Hive guard 50

HG 50

HG 50

Gantsx10 50

Tervigon TS catalyst 185

still got 120 points to go... thinking stealers

Are those three Hive Guards? (I'm a noob, not sure what HG stands for)

rigeld2 wrote:No, they just don't exist. Neither does the Tervigon, or the Mycetic Spore, or Warrior Primes. You get to convert for them.

What the heck... that seems like a lot of models that they don't have... Why would they not make them? Didn't they just re-do the Tyranid model line in the not-too-distant past?

yes they did...

Tangent wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:No, they just don't exist. Neither does the Tervigon, or the Mycetic Spore, or Warrior Primes. You get to convert for them.

What the heck... that seems like a lot of models that they don't have... Why would they not make them? Didn't they just re-do the Tyranid model line in the not-too-distant past?

Maybe? I just started playing recently...
Regardless, I don't work for GW so I can't say why, unless I wanted to pretend they had it out for me and wanted me to buy a couple dozen Carnifexen to do all my conversions on... which is, at a minimum, not cheap.

So can you build all those models from the hive tyrant model or something?

Tangent wrote:So can you build all those models from the hive tyrant model or something?

You can build them from whatever you want to, but...

Most people convert a Warrior into a Warrior Prime.
Most people convert a Carnifex into either a Tyrannofex or a Tervigon.
Most people scratch build a Harpy (loosely) based on the Tyrant
Most people scratch build Mycetic Spores
Most people convert a Tyrant into a Parasite of Mortrex (if you're going to use it)
Most people convert a Zoanthrope into a Doom of Malantai (that or scratch build it).

Ymgarl Genestealers are normally built from the tentacle head (you get 1 per box) from the genestealer squad box - bits sites 4tw
Swarmlord is a Tyrant with 4 boneswords
Shrikes are Warriors with wings (from somewhere.. GW doesn't sell them afaik)
Similarly, Sky-Slashers get wings from somewhere, but I don't know where you'd get them from.

Yes HG stands for Hive guard. I like the idea of the dropping the prime and going for a trygon, provides a lotta hitting power