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I have been tearing it up on the tables with this list. It is thus far undefeated.
It does require that you purchase 3 Forgeworld Blight Drones, but it is well worth it IMO.

HQ: Daemon Prince w\ Wings, Sorcerer, Lash of Submission
HQ: Daemon Prince w\ Wings, Sorcerer, Lash of Submission

Troops: 7 Plague Marines w\ Flamer, Melta Gun, Rhino
Plague Champion w\ Combi Melta, Powerfist

Troops: 7 Plague Marines w\ Flamer, Melta Gun, Rhino
Plague Champion w\ Combi Melta, Powerfist

Troops: 9 Chaos Space Marines w\ Flamer, Melta Gun, Rhino
Aspiring Champion w\ Combi Melta, Powerfist

Fast Attack: Blight Drone
Fast Attack: Blight Drone
Fast Attack: Blight Drone

Heavy Support: Predator w\ Twin Linked Lascannon, 2x Sponson Lascannons
Heavy Support: Predator w\ Twin Linked Lascannon, 2x Sponson Lascannons
Heavy Support: Predator w\ Twin Linked Lascannon, 2x Sponson Lascannons

3 ST8 AP3 pie plates being served around the table, with a hefty side of Lash of Submission. Supported by 9 Lascannon
shots a turn, and rock hard Plague Marines advancing. It is an ugly army.


If you are bent on Obliterators, you can mod the army to run the following. Personally, I like the Predators with the Blight Drones,
and feel that Predators are grossly underrated.

HQ: Daemon Prince w\ Wings, Sorcerer, Lash of Submission
HQ: Daemon Prince w\ Wings, Sorcerer, Lash of Submission

Troops: 7 Plague Marines w\ Flamer, Melta Gun, Rhino
Plague Champion w\ Combi Melta, Powerfist

Troops: 7 Plague Marines w\ Flamer, Melta Gun, Rhino
Plague Champion w\ Combi Melta, Powerfist

Troops: 9 Chaos Space Marines w\ Flamer, Melta Gun, Rhino
Aspiring Champion w\ Combi Melta, Powerfist

Fast Attack: Blight Drone
Fast Attack: Blight Drone
Fast Attack: Blight Drone

Heavy Support: 2x Obliterators
Heavy Support: 2x Obliterators
Heavy Support: 2x Obliterators

How do you find the blight drone holds up? I always figured they needed running in at least a pair, since one on its own might be a tad vulnerable.

Reanimator wrote:How do you find the blight drone holds up? I always figured they needed running in at least a pair, since one on its own might be a tad vulnerable.

They hold up about as well as a space marine land speeder. Remember, they are fast skimmers. If you move more than 12" they get a 4+ cover save.

Also, they are only 125 points. If your opponent does manage to pop 1 or 3, it won't break the back of your army. They make up their point cost
quickly. If you drop a pie plate on a squad of purifiers, for example, you just cleared 250 points or so.

Blight drones are op for their point cost, don't forget they also ignore stunned and shaken...

If i wouldn't be such a 1K sons fan, i would have bought some to wreck the place...

Not sure why the Plague Marines have a melta and flamer. Taking a mix of weapons makes them less affective against the target you're firing at, so flamer doesn't hurt vehicles and melta does little to infantry. Double special weapons in each squad would be fine along with only 5 Marines per unit as you only need 5 Marines per unit to get double specials anyway.

Both aren't bad armies, but could be better. I wouldn't be worried about neither TBH.

mercer wrote:Not sure why the Plague Marines have a melta and flamer. Taking a mix of weapons makes them less affective against the target you're firing at, so flamer doesn't hurt vehicles and melta does little to infantry. Double special weapons in each squad would be fine along with only 5 Marines per unit as you only need 5 Marines per unit to get double specials anyway.

Both aren't bad armies, but could be better. I wouldn't be worried about neither TBH.

Taking a flamer and melta is much more versatile than double melta. Don't forget, the champion has a combi melta.

The list is designed to be an all comers list. Flamers are essential to dealing with hordes. I can't tell you the value I have experienced
having a single flamer in each of my squads. Especially against IG and Dark Eldar.

I don't like 5 Marines per unit. I prefer to have the extra survivability of 8 man strong Plague Marine squads.

I would be happy to play your all comers list, Mercer. I am certain you will find just how effective this army is.

skywise07 wrote:

Reanimator wrote:How do you find the blight drone holds up? I always figured they needed running in at least a pair, since one on its own might be a tad vulnerable.

They hold up about as well as a space marine land speeder. Remember, they are fast skimmers. If you move more than 12" they get a 4+ cover save.

Also, they are only 125 points. If your opponent does manage to pop 1 or 3, it won't break the back of your army. They make up their point cost
quickly. If you drop a pie plate on a squad of purifiers, for example, you just cleared 250 points or so.

Fast Skimmers only get a 4+ if they move 18"+

that and I don't play any games using FW/IA rules, not much of a point to it if I only play in tournies that disallow them completely, y'know what I mean.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

skywise07 wrote:

Reanimator wrote:How do you find the blight drone holds up? I always figured they needed running in at least a pair, since one on its own might be a tad vulnerable.

They hold up about as well as a space marine land speeder. Remember, they are fast skimmers. If you move more than 12" they get a 4+ cover save.

Also, they are only 125 points. If your opponent does manage to pop 1 or 3, it won't break the back of your army. They make up their point cost
quickly. If you drop a pie plate on a squad of purifiers, for example, you just cleared 250 points or so.

Fast Skimmers only get a 4+ if they move 18"+

that and I don't play any games using FW/IA rules, not much of a point to it if I only play in tournies that disallow them completely, y'know what I mean.

That is not correct. A fast vehicle moving flat out, gains a 4+ cover save if it moves more than 12" and up to 18". See Pg.70 of the WH40K rulebook, Moving Fast
Vehicles Section. A fast skimmer can move up to 24" when going flat out, and receives a 4+ cover save when moving more than 12" and up to 24".

In regards to Forge World, at my locals stores Forge World models are allowed at all events. So that is a non-issue. It is a fully legal model.


edited for language.

Your forge world rules are not LEGAL rules.

If they are so legal why does GW not allow it in their tournaments? They are experimental rules. Just because one little store in your area allow Forgeworld rules doesn't mean everyone likes to use over powered rules.

If your store allow forge world rules then will you let me bring 2 titans and the min 2 troops in 1750? will you play me? its perfectly forge world "legal"

Don't judge others and insult them when your the one whos trying to cheat to win.

My bad on the misread/wrong inches

No, Forge World rules ARE Legal Rules. I am not talking about experimental rules. I am talking about published rules in Forge World Imperial Armor and
Forge World Campaign Books.

Your reference about taking a titan is out of context, and shows that you do not understand the rules systems. A titan is considered a Super Heavy Vehicle,
and can only be taken in games above 3,000 points\Apocalypse level games.


I don't need to cheat to win. It sounds like you need to whine to win. Also, I wouldn't insult others unless they started acting like a baby at the gaming table.


No worries on the misread/wrong inches. That's what the rulebook is for; to clarify rules questions.

My opinion is (and my stores and many others agree), Forge World is a part
of the Games Workshop Company, and their printed rule books are 100% legal. If someone is too craven to play against me, let them decline to play
and go do something else.

I don't really care if forgeworld rules are "legal" or "not".

If you are building a, and I quote, "an extremely competitive army", you probably want to take it to a tournament or something.

If forgeworld rules aren't allowed at Nova, or 'ard Boyz... then they are a complete waste of time competitively. Because what is the point of building a super competitive list thats barred from entering the prestigious tournaments? If your goal is to beat the scrubs at your local hobby store... whop de doo. But if you can't bring it to play with the big boys there really isn't any point to calling it competitive, because, contrary to popular belief, in order to be competitive you actually do have to at least be able to compete...

Unless of course you are referring to "competitive in my local meta which allows forgeworld". This is a very different question, and honestly "competitive" is kind of a trigger word on the internet, having a definition around these parts essentially akin to: A list capable of doing well at major tournaments absent player skill. That your list *could* do well at one of these is totally irrelevant because in most circumstances it wouldn't be allowed. Until Forgeworld is allowed in tournaments like 'ard boyz, they will never be "competitive" simply because they cannot compete.

forgeworld rules are fun, and most players will play against them as long as you aren't being ridiculous. But because of their dissallowance at many major events they are very at odds with the idea of "competitive". You know what I mean?

Ive heard from a reliable source that mercers "take all commers list" is something like this:

HQ
Libby = 100

Troops:
5xScouts = 75

10xTacticals (ML+Flamer) = 170
Pod = 35

Heavy:
LR Achilles = 325

LR Achilles = 325

Elites:
9xTH&SS Termies = 360

Dread (MM+HF) = 115
Lucius Pattern Pod = 50

Dread (MM+HF) = 115
Lucius Pattern Pod = 50

FA:
Caestus Assault Ram = 275

I wish we had more players around our area with your attitude(honestly, no sarcasm/insult intended we lack strong willed players). Our store hosts IA/Apoc events monthly and keeps them seperate from 40k which I wholeheartedly agree with. I like to have all of the written information of what my opponent has at his disposal. So i keep a set of all the current Codices, allowwing FW into 40k would be nothing more than another money grab by GW.

I've played similar lists as yours solely within the realms of GW tournies and they're terrible in the current meta. The drones would be a wonderful addition to C:CSM (a fast unit that doesnt suck)

Best of luck in your locals.

PS where is that?

skywise07 wrote:No, Forge World rules ARE Legal Rules. I am not talking about experimental rules. I am talking about published rules in Forge World Imperial Armor and
Forge World Campaign Books.

I think you need to look at your IA more closely.


Death Korps of Krieg are allowed to take titans. I am not sure if its one or two but it definatly can take titans because my friend does it but I doubt anyone will play him since in a normal game you do not see more than one av14 and definatly not one with structure points and void shield.

IA are not "LEGAL" rules as in gamesworkshop tournament rules. they are rules but only legal in your local area.

Also you list is not that competitve from my point of view but what are the rules for the blight drone? maybe they are the ones that are actully game changing because the rest is just a normal chaos list that does ok but not gonna win you any tournaments.

Don't worry skywise, at no point were you ever in danger of being taken seriously.

Cute list. Curious to see what your lists sans 300+ points of herp derp looks like.

True most tournaments will not allow FW rules. But there are some out there. And it would be nice to see how this list would hold up to some of the stronger FW armies.

And to be honest with you I like the lists with out the drones. For chaos they look solid.

One more point on FW. I’m going to bet 6th ed is going to incorporate most FW modals. This is just and guess off what the rumor mill is coming out with as of lately

akaean wrote:I don't really care if forgeworld rules are "legal" or "not".

If you are building a, and I quote, "an extremely competitive army", you probably want to take it to a tournament or something.

If forgeworld rules aren't allowed at Nova, or 'ard Boyz... then they are a complete waste of time competitively. Because what is the point of building a super competitive list thats barred from entering the prestigious tournaments? If your goal is to beat the scrubs at your local hobby store... whop de doo. But if you can't bring it to play with the big boys there really isn't any point to calling it competitive, because, contrary to popular belief, in order to be competitive you actually do have to at least be able to compete...

Unless of course you are referring to "competitive in my local meta which allows forgeworld". This is a very different question, and honestly "competitive" is kind of a trigger word on the internet, having a definition around these parts essentially akin to: A list capable of doing well at major tournaments absent player skill. That your list *could* do well at one of these is totally irrelevant because in most circumstances it wouldn't be allowed. Until Forgeworld is allowed in tournaments like 'ard boyz, they will never be "competitive" simply because they cannot compete.

forgeworld rules are fun, and most players will play against them as long as you aren't being ridiculous. But because of their dissallowance at many major events they are very at odds with the idea of "competitive". You know what I mean?

I disagree. Going to Nova or National Ard Boyz does not define competitive in Warhammer 40,000 terms. Honestly, I could care less about Nova or National Ard Boyz. And you know what, I am certain I could beat your so called "Big Boys". I know the game just as well as they do, have tons of experience (been playing since 3rd Edition), and would welcome the opportunity to play any one of them. I get all the 40K action I need in my local area. We have 3 stores with dedicated game nights, and tournaments going on all the time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Marthike wrote:

I think you need to look at your IA more closely.


Death Korps of Krieg are allowed to take titans. I am not sure if its one or two but it definatly can take titans because my friend does it but I doubt anyone will play him since in a normal game you do not see more than one av14 and definatly not one with structure points and void shield.

IA are not "LEGAL" rules as in gamesworkshop tournament rules. they are rules but only legal in your local area.

Also you list is not that competitve from my point of view but what are the rules for the blight drone? maybe they are the ones that are actully game changing because the rest is just a normal chaos list that does ok but not gonna win you any tournaments.

Death Korps of Krieg - I have never played them, but they wouldn't be able to use Titans in anything less than 3,000 points around here. Titans aren't appropriate in games under 3,000 points.

My list is not competitive from your point of view, yet you do not know the rules for Blight Drones? I am not going to comment on this any further......

I don't know the drones because guess what I don't use forge world rules.

I read the earlier post and gathered what the drones do. They are marine killers and sounds a bit under pointed.

Have you ever considered forgeworld rules being over powered or underpowered? Atleast GW get play tested.

You said your local area allow forgeworld IA rules so I am using the army book provided in the IA which allow titans to be taken. Just because it is better than your list so now there is a restriction on what I can take?

You should stop calling this list competitive because it nothing more than a fun list. Forgeworld rules are not legal to be played anywhere else other than your area. Your local gaming area is not the world just because your local area allow silly rules does not mean you can take it to anywhere else.

Anyway your list is still just average not competitve even with the drones. Av10 is not hard to pop with any kind of anti tank. When your 3 drones are gone you basicly lose all your anti infantry abilities and 3 troop choice might not be enough to win an objective game.

How will you deal with purifer spam. If your lascannon go for the rhinos so your drones can kill my infantry that leaves my 3 dreads to take out your drones. And in CC plague marine die to S5 powerweapons

how will you deal with long fang space wolf almost everything in their army can take out your drones.

Blood angel can do your predator spam but better. 6 predator and 6 razorback is not easy to deal with.

Your entire army relies on those 3 drones without it you hav no anti infantry. Take them away you have no firepower at all.

So basiclly you can only get by using forgeworld rules. What happen if you move house? To a new area where they don't use forgeworld rules?

Competetive to me represents the GT circuit, Ard Boyz, Nova, and a handful of others.

The only one that allows FW rules is the Adepticon doubles tourney IIRC

If you're saying you don't give gak about GT's than this "competitive" you speak of is an absolute joke.

You may be suffering from small pond syndrome. In which case you may be the Big Fish in the farm pond.

"Have you ever considered forgeworld rules being over powered or underpowered? Atleast GW get play tested."

It depends on the rules. I don't find Blight Drones to be over powered. They provide a nice boost to the dated Chaos Space Marines Codex.
I question GW's play testing. Especially with the new Grey Knights. I can beat Grey Knights, but only because I know their codex really well.
A lot of local Ard Boyz players are struggling with the Codex. It is not well designed from a balance perspective.


"You said your local area allow forgeworld IA rules so I am using the army book provided in the IA which allow titans to be taken. Just because it is better than your list so now there is a restriction on what I can take?"

I don't think using Titan's in a 2000 point battle will go over to well. People don't have problems with smaller scale units, like Blight Drones, or tank variants from Forge World.
With that being said, at no time did I say it was "better than my list". That came out of your mouth;. I would actually enjoy playing a Death Korps list, even if they used Titans. I know how to destroy Titans, and
if they have that many points sucked into a Titan, they are as good as dead as soon as it goes down.


"You should stop calling this list competitive because it nothing more than a fun list"

That is your opinion. Opinions are like a$$holes. Everyone has one. My list is definetely fun, really fun when it crushes other armies, which is something it is good at doing.
It is very competitive on the tables of the 41st millenium.


" Av10 is not hard to pop with any kind of anti tank."

Firstly, a Blight Drone is AV 12. They also beneft from a 4+ cover save a lot of the time, and ignore stunned\shaken results.
Additionally, I run 3. If you pop one, big deal. I will pop a fart to go along with it.


"How will you deal with purifer spam."

Easily. I have done it several times. Lash and an ST 8 AP3 Pie Plate or 2 or 3, sends Purifies straight into the warp. Same thing with Long Fang spam.
They die easily.


"Blood angel can do your predator spam but better. 6 predator and 6 razorback is not easy to deal with."

My army isn't about Predator spam. The Predator's support the army.


"Your entire army relies on those 3 drones without it you hav no anti infantry. Take them away you have no firepower at all."

Fail. My army is solid WITHOUT the blight drones. In fact, I often hope that my opponent will focus fire on the Blight Drones
so that my Daemon Princes, Plague Marines, and Predators can do their job.


"So basiclly you can only get by using forgeworld rules. What happen if you move house? To a new area where they don't use forgeworld rules?"

EPIC FAIL. Forgeworld is a small part of my over 25,000 point collection of Chaos Space Marines\15,000 points Chaos Daemons. This list just happens to be one of the most
competitive available right now in the current codex. I don't plan on moving out of the area for several critical reasons, but if I did nothing would change. I am good at
getting new groups to try new things.

Your list is only legal in your local store, get over it.

Stoffer wrote:Your list is only legal in your local store, get over it.

Nah dude. My list is legal anywhere I choose to play it. Barring a few of your overrated events, like Nova.

The fact is, you can play this list in any pick up game as long as your opponent will allow. And as I see very few people would turn down a game, you shouldn’t have any problems here.

As for tournament play I have never seen a GT allow FW rules. I’ve never played in Adepticon so this could be the exception. But I have done a lot of traveling for tournaments and I have never played in a standard tournament that allowed FW. It may be to bad but its not a situation where you can say I want and get your way.

But if what you say is true, according to the IA update I cant run my vendettas as flyers and I can take thunderbolts as heavy supports. Or run a full elysian drop troop list full of flyers so no one can hit me unless they roll a 6. And every one must subtract 12in from there max range when shooting at me.

Of course I can’t do ether of these things, because FW rules always effect the game in such an exaggerated way.

You are more then welcome to justify your clam as you want. But this isn’t the consensus of the world meta. If your store does it great, if its in driving distance I would love to come out for a few tournaments because I feel apoc/IA games are the most fun to play. It takes the monotony out the standardized games most of us know far to well.

You can play it all you want. By yourself.

You are playing 40k with IA. That is not warhammer 40k.

Hey check out my uber list that I am undefeated with its relies on some custom made units that conveniently cover holes in my army book.

Herp derp I am a tactical genius fear me you craven fools!

Skywise is fierce.

I have some things to say. First, What is a Blight Drone? It's not in any of my books, available in the United States from a game store.

Second, I've been playing since Rogue Trader, have been to many tournaments, including NOVA and GTs, and feel I'm experienced. I lose all the time, usually about fifty percent, so maybe I'm wrong.

Third: Ubercompetitive has to, I think, include the Vegas GT. If you can't play it at Vegas GT it's just not ubercompetitive.

Would I play it? If you gave me a copy of the rules, sure. Games are for fun.

Firstly.

Stop saying codex. IA is not a codex.

Pie plates? Large or normal because if it's normal then I have no worry about them.

Av12 is not hard to deal with my army have enough fire power to take out them all every term.

The problem with chaos list is that is not very competitive. When your drones are gone. How many bolter shots have y got? Definatly not enough to kill an whole army.

We can stop talking about legal side of the list because we can argue about it all day.

Tell me how you deal with mech lists. 9 lascannon can damage 3 tanks a turn. For GK 1-4 damage results are not important.

Also can I ask, you said your friend doesn't do predator spam. The only other competitive list is maybe DoA. But that is basicly auto win for you because deepstrike vs S8 AP3 is not fair.

If you think you rely heavily on your drones. Why don you come up with an none IA list and we can then try to work it out to see which is better. I am sure you can find another list better than your current one.

As others have said you suffer from two syndromes. Hubris and "Big fish in a small pond" syndrome.

How are you lashing long fangs? The ML has a 48" range, Lash on a Winged prince has a 36" range. Either your Princes or your Blight Drones will be dead before you can do much damage. Not to mention that you will have a less than 50% chance of getting lash off in the first place.

You really dont have any way of dealing with Mech. 9 Lascannons are not awfully reliable.

How would you deal with a DW army?

Dark light spam?

Leaf blower?

Melta Vets?

Ect ect.

The one thing your list will destroy is foot slogging MEQs. Impressive...