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I'm thinking of getting a Brettonian army, as I love the models and the way the army works off of cavalry and the like. However, I was skimming through the codex, and I get the feeling the ruling nobility treat peasants like trash. Making them do things they feel are beneath them, and hardly ever allowing them to rise above yeomen because they feel it would dirty their precious knight class. So are all brettonian lords this way?

I would say that its safe to say that would be a generalization. I mean some stereotypes are founded in truth but to say that ALL of _____ are like ______ usually is incorrect.

If your posing the question because of the intention to make an army where the peasants are less down in the dumps because your Lord is a man of the people i say go for it. I don't think anyone would scoff, it's a great idea!

Having had a chance to look more into, I'm unsure how I would even start a custom force in brettonia. Or rather, one that makes sense. There's only so much landmass, and most if not all of it is claimed by pre-existing dukes.

A returning Knightly Lord from a long quest who's host has been together for so long that rank is less than an issue and everyone respects and hugs eachother.

Bam!

As for them treating the peasents like trash, look up the Feudal system sometimes.

Peasents were the literal slaves of their masters. you couldn't leave the manor and were doomed to a life of servitude, the only avenue to a better life was becoming a Man-at-arms and even then you were still your lord's servent.


Thats what actual life was like in the Medieval period and Brettonia is based on that time period(Specifically Arthurian legend)

Grey Templar wrote:As for them treating the peasents like trash, look up the Feudal system sometimes.

Peasents were the literal slaves of their masters. you couldn't leave the manor and were doomed to a life of servitude, the only avenue to a better life was becoming a Man-at-arms and even then you were still your lord's servent.


Thats what actual life was like in the Medieval period and Brettonia is based on that time period(Specifically Arthurian legend)

Absolutely, I'm just a strong advocate of players making whatever they can imagine and feel passionate about.

I understand how things were, but the warhammer world doesn't always mimic the real world.

Sure, but it clearly is in this situation.


Can you make a more benevelant Lord? Sure, go ahead. Just realize that he won't be treating the peasents as equals.


a nice brett Lord would be one who doesn't work his peasents to death and at least treats them like human beings. He certaintly wouldn't do anything beneath him(like muckin out his stables), but he would treat them fairly. They would get proper food and rest periods for example. maybe even have a fairly leniant tax system.

I'm guessing I read it wrong, or just read the wrong part. In that sense, yeah it's not so bad. I'm king, your a peasant, this is how things are. But the bits I was taking from the bret book was like "Ugh you disgust me don't even think of coming within 15 of me slave".

I imagine it's just based from duke to duke, as it's been said. I like the idea of custom armies, but I just don't think it's possible for brets, everything is already established.

I just need to man up and deal with my slave archers like a proper duke

You can make up your own duke. Just say he is sandwitched between the outlined duchies.


Or you can have him be in a Brettonian Colony somewhere else in the world.

Grey Templar wrote:You can make up your own duke. Just say he is sandwitched between the outlined duchies

Like a sort of minor duke yes? Give tithe and bodies in times of war, otherwise left to my own devices?

Basically,

The running joke at my club is when yeoman do well, they earned their sandwich. One. For all of them. That being said, go with what Grey Templar said, minor dukes are bound to be there somewhere, not everyone can be a headliner. Plus his benevolence makes more sense as to why he has stayed in the minor role. Lenient taxes would translate into less personal funds (though I'm absolutely positive that the economics aren't that simple - I just make not claims to being an econ major), but all in all he would have less to move up in the world.

Theres also the Virtue of Empathy (i think thats it...) which allows your Duke to fight alongside his peasants, so they cant all be bad.

Otherwise, go along with Fear and GT, its perfectly acceptable IMO

Kura wrote:Lenient taxes would translate into less personal funds (though I'm absolutely positive that the economics aren't that simple - I just make not claims to being an econ major), but all in all he would have less to move up in the world.

Sadly, in a feudal system, this is exactly what fewer taxes mean for the guy higher up the food chain: less personal wealth. All wealth in a feudal system is derived via taxation (Except that which begins at the bottom: the peasants aren't taxing anyone. They work the land to get resources, but it is taxed away from them).

For a Brettonian Lord (not necessarily a Duke, as being a Duke implies a great deal of land and wealth) to let his peasants keep more than a tenth of what they produce would be uncharacteristically generous, as it would limit his own resources. The Lord would have less money to repair and maintain his castle, and equip himself and his men at arms. Those two things are paramount to a feudal lord, as his sole function is to provide military might. He protects the peasants with his own castle and his own sword, in return they slave for him. The lord also gets taxed, by his superiors (the King in the case of a Duke) so that they can provide military might on a larger scale. On it goes, up the chain.

A Brettonian Lord who keeps his taxes low would have less money to send up the chain. While he wouldn't be taxed at the 90% rate the peasants are taxed, he will still lose a chunk of his already diminished wealth to his superiors. So you can see why few of them are so benevolently inclined.

Though, if one did decide that well-fed and happy peasants produce more and revolt less than starving and dying peasants, he could be rewarded for his far-sightedness in ways other than money... On the tabletop you could represent that as a Lord who fights on foot (can't afford a horse) and who has a higher than average number of bowmen and men at arms in the army. Absolute minimum number of knights, though, which makes your Brettonian army play completely unlike a Brettonian army...

I recommend the sourcebook on Brettonia that GW put out for the previous edition of the WHFB Roleplaying game. It does a fantastic job of reconciling how Brettonian nobles can be the epitome of chivalry and such enormous elitist douchecrackers at the same time. Lots of great background information, and plenty of inspiration for anyone wanting to make good fluff for their own Brettonian army. Pity it's out of print...

Great info Squid. I'll definitely be looking into getting that codex. I love how older editions of the fantasy army books are filled with fluff (which isn't the case in 40k).

The more I think about it, the more it's not SO bad. I mean, in the warhammer world things are generally trying to kill you all the time. Instead of simply human invaders you have to worry about the ever present orks, beastmen, skaven, etc. etc. So peasants being destitute isn't such a terrible price to pay. On the other hand you don't have to treat them like utter filth, after all the kingdom is held aloft on the backs of the peasants.

I do like the idea about a lord on foot and him sticking with the men at arms and bowmen. Being a man of the people so to speak. I'd still like to use knights, but a Duke/lord fighting on the same level of the people while his knights ride forth to claim their own glory and all that sounds like a grand idea to me.

Again, the Virtue of Empathy allows this to happen (for a Duke/ Lord to fight on foot, and to join a unit of peasants).

However, its not really worth it from what i have seen (competative-wise anyways, but then Brets are really suffering atm anyway so, meh). I applaud you for carrying through your fluff if you do go down this route.

Sorry for not addressing your earlier post Reiko, I meant to.

I guess because it's the very last Virtue in a long list of virtues (with some of them being some real stinkers), I must have just overlooked it. I like how it says you MAY be on foot. As in you get a leadership bubble of 12'' for 10 pts. Still, I like the idea of a leader on foot.

I think it would be neat to make him the stereotypical "mountain of a man". Does anyone know any GW models that come to mind for this? Just something human that's tall and built a little higher than everyone else.

I'm sub par with green stuff, so I might be able to do some converting.

The Brettonian Grail knight champion model is pretty cool http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440036a&prodId=prod780914

and he is on foot to boot.

It's such a dinky little hammer though. Doesn't scream lord to me.

Empire models look like more imposing physical figures, but they are distinctly Empire and would look out of place in a Brett army.


Maybe you can try out some Mantic figures.

Necroshea wrote:Sorry for not addressing your earlier post Reiko, I meant to.

I guess because it's the very last Virtue in a long list of virtues (with some of them being some real stinkers), I must have just overlooked it. I like how it says you MAY be on foot. As in you get a leadership bubble of 12'' for 10 pts. Still, I like the idea of a leader on foot.

I think it would be neat to make him the stereotypical "mountain of a man". Does anyone know any GW models that come to mind for this? Just something human that's tall and built a little higher than everyone else.

I'm sub par with green stuff, so I might be able to do some converting.

Its OK, i was having a needy moment....

Its not a very good Virtue tbh, there was a thread about it not too long ago and it was debunked pretty hard. Which is a shame, because its the sort of thing a 'nice' Brettonian Lord would do i think (also a practical one, you cant always trust those peasants to hang around if they dont have their armed and armoured ruler standing over them with a magical sword... )

A Greatsword maybe?...

Given that a crop yeild of 3 to 1 was considered excellent in medieval times, any lord taxing his peons 90% won't have any income next year, the peons will have eaten what was left and then starved to death over the winter. They need to keep about half, so they can eat enough to survive and still have seed left to plant for net year's harvest.

its definitly a very hand to mouth existance.

a single below average harvest could mean starvation or no seed for next season.



A smart lord would ease his quota requirement if the harvest was lean so they can be normal next year.

squidhills wrote:I recommend the sourcebook on Brettonia that GW put out for the previous edition of the WHFB Roleplaying game. It does a fantastic job of reconciling how Brettonian nobles can be the epitome of chivalry and such enormous elitist douchecrackers at the same time. Lots of great background information, and plenty of inspiration for anyone wanting to make good fluff for their own Brettonian army. Pity it's out of print...

Still available as a pdf, squid.

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=63477

Check amazon, you can get a physical copy without those crappy watermarks for about $8 more.

Looks like closer to +$13-14 with shipping, but it is another option.

Well, I've got an idea in the works for a lord on foot. something along the lines of...

Dislikes mounts because they seem to die beneath him all the time.
Defeated an ogre bull in single combat after it insulted his honor
Loves his people and treats them as such, and they love him and work harder and endure more for him to show it. He knows that the kingdom exists because of the peasants, and acts accordingly by standing besides them in wartimes.
While his Knights might not see eye to eye, they will never voice their opinion and risk the anger of the man who felled an ogre. Besides, he gives them more than enough chances to prove themselves.

Still, this means that I need a model befitting such a man. I'm pretty handy with conversions and kit bashing, but I need a base to start from. The GW rule is 50%, so I guess just use a built human model from somewhere else and just put a ton of crap on him like armor and the like to balance things out.

Still, I can't think of any models in particular this would work on.

It's not really my subject, but superficially-speaking, the Brettonnian stereotype of arrogant knights and lords treating the peasantry like cannon fodder in battle and like dirt at all other times is historically true to the period from which the studio took their inspiration - i.e. the high middle ages.

In historical terms, those social and economic divisions were only blurred by the advent of gunpowder warfare, rendering mounted knights and their castles militarily useless, and the rise of a wealthy but common-born class of parvenu ' robe nobility' who owed their allegiance to the crown directly, not to the feudal structure - i.e. the advent of the early-modern period, the armies and society of which are represented in Warhammer by the Empire.

There are, however, a few good literary and historical models for 'man of the people' noblemen: English kings Edward III and Henry V, for instance, both crushed the French with armies reliant upon non-knightly archers and pikemen, and both Ivanhoe and Sir Percival loosely embody the same archetype in fiction.

This may be passed the point, but building off what squidhills said, you could still have a benevolent bret army and fit in with the fluff.
I also think you could still have a lord on a horse with a decent knight train. (though it seems your set on an unmounted lord, which is cool too.) I'm just thinking that if you find a lord with enough kindness to treat his people fairly, then you could probably find a group of like-minded knights who would support their lord. I haven't looked much into the army book, but my friend plays brets and he doesn't always scorn his peasants. I figure it would be pretty similar to arhurian legend, where the lord sort of designs his round table.