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Run across a few interesting things of late whilst surfing the internet. So to speak, a few academically/scientifically verified things that would seem to indicate our knowledge of the world may not be complete. I'm far from a conspiracy nut, but these are genuinely interesting and though provoking.

The first of these is the Antikythera Mechanism:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism

Tl;dr version:-

-It's a device recovered from a shipwreck off the Greek coast.
-Dated to about 150 BC.
-Is a tremendously sophisticated set of mechanisms, equivalent to a Swiss Clock from two millenia later. Far more complex than anything else known of the period.
-was capable of compensating for leap years, despite predating the first calendar that took these into account by a hundred years
-Accurately calculates astronomical data with regards to the movement of heavenly bodies.

The catch? This predates Newton and his theories of gravity by quite a long time. Humans in this period did not understand how and why heavenly bodies moved, nor understand the principles of why they did so. So precisely how does it do so? Some scientists think that this is simply a byproduct of the machine, and that it wouldn't have been used in such a way originally. I'll emphasise 'some' here, they're actually in the minority.

Interesting, either way, if simply for the fact that it pretty much revolutionises the concepts of how technologically capable the Greeks were. I mean, its actually considered to be complicated enough to be technically considered a computer.


Secondly, is the WOW! Signal:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wow!_signal

Tl;dr version:-

-A radio signal detected from space in 1977 at the Big Ear Radio Telescope.
-Lasted for 72 seconds.
-Came from a location with no planets or stars, in other words, dead space.
-Initially thought to be some sort of bizarely misdirected feedback of a reflected transmission from Earth.
-Chap who detected it set out to prove this was the case (wanted to disprove any chance of it being aliens to shut nutjobs up).
-Basically failed to do so, and 99% proved that this could not be the case, eventually forcing him to reluctantly admit the tremendous unlikelihood of this being the case.

ET stories are the food of nutjobs around the world. I'm not saying anything is or isn't the case here. Nonetheless, the science involved is very interesting. I read a paper by the chap in question who found the WOW signal, before and afterwards. He actually sounds quite peeved later on he couldn't prove it to be a reflected earth transmission. Aliens or not, he read like one annoyed scientist.


Finally, I give you the Quackers:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quacker_(sound)

Tl;dr version:-

-In the 1970's.
-Soviet subs detected some bizare quacking noises in a certain region of the Arctic Ocean.
-The origin of these noises was undetectable on sonar.
-Application of the Doppler Shift (figuring out the speed of a noise by its frequency) indicated the origin of the noises was moving up to 200km/ph.
-The generator of these noises was detected circling the crafts that detected it/them
-When sounds were broadcast back at it, the origin of the noises shifted its own frequency or moved about, showing a clear reaction to the broadcast sounds.
-They began to crop up all over the place, including the North Sea, so the Soviets formed a Joint Commission with the Royal Navy, which proved completely inconclusive.
-The detection of these quackers increased for a period of time, and then began to slowly decrease.
-They gave up in the eighties trying to figure out what it was and monitoring it.

This is the one that interests me the most. Here's my thinking.

-The origin of the noises reacted to sounds being broadcast back at it/them. This implies some sort of sentience or recognition, be it marine life, or constructed machine.
-The noises cropped up all over the place. Seriously. This implies against it being a single experimental military craft being detected. It would have to be an operational craft if it were of US or Soviet origin, and there would have to be multiple copies of them. The odds of such a vessel not surfacing in the public knowledge forty years later is slim.
-It didn't show up on sonar. I don't know if that's possible today, but it wasn't back then. Something else to weigh against it being a US or Soviet device.
-It would have had practically no engine noise. Something that I know IS capable today, but again, not so certainly back then.
-It/they were travelling at 200 km/ph. Underwater. That is an insane speed. Let me put it in perspective. A killer whale, the fastest known marine life, moves at 35 km/ph. The fastest man built submarine today( the Alfa Class) only moves at 76 km/ph. If this were a man made device from forty years ago, the engines would have surfaced by now, because they would be a massive order of a magnitude more powerful than anything we currently have on our boats.


From this, it is possible to conclude that it is very, very unlikely it was a US or Soviet machine. The sheer speed alone makes it unlikely to be some kind of marine life. Compared with the lack of showing up on sonar, I'd say that makes it virtually impossible its an animal. It can't be dismissed as a mere machine malfunction, these 'quacks' were detected by the Soviet and Royal Navies in various locations across the North and Arctic Seas, and by different vessels.

That only leaves the option its a made device/machine in excess of technology we quite possibly possess today.

Such a thought makes me uncomfortable, simply because I'm far from a conspiracy nut, and I dislike the idea of anything being around to challenge human dominance. You show me a pic of a UFO or Nessie, and I'll laugh at you, and demand proper scientific readouts before we even talk.

Thing is though, for this one, the data is there. It's fact. And I'm not sure I like it......

Don't worry, be happy.

Personally I just put these kinds of things out of my mind. I have enough real gak to worry about.

Ma55ter_fett wrote:Don't worry, be happy.

Personally I just put these kinds of things out of my mind. I have enough real gak to worry about.

Congratulations, you've found the secret to happiness. Personally, I've discovered so much about what I thought was real in the last twenty years that actually was a lie or illusion that now I have developed the ability to compartmentalize to such a degree that it's like I have three or four complete realities going on in my head at any given time. I pick and choose from them like music to make up a playlist. I'm not exactly happy, but I am well entertained.

There are several stories about unknown objects parading around military vehicles and bases:

There were several instances in the Cold war on both sides when a missile or nuclear device was being tested,an object would appear in the airspace over the base and suddenly the test controls would malfunction, fighters would scramble and then the object would disappear...the test would be rescheduled and the object would appear again and feth up the controls right when it was supposed to launch...There are records (a few anyway, usually in these cases the first official reports are changed by the government) and instrument readouts that verify these things as actual objects and not just tricks of the camera or light.

There was another story in the fifties when a B-29 was over the gulf and something approached it going 5,000 mph. This was verified by the bomber's radar operator and the bright object even hovered around the aircraft for a few minutes before blasting off again at speeds never recorded for ANY aircraft then or now.

Im quite open to these kind of things ( well with some dissapointment if they turn out to be hoax )

But im all for the idea of lost technology and knowledge.
I mean just because something wasnt officially made into a formula or a book doesnt mean there are people that thinks they exist.

warpcrafter wrote:
Congratulations, you've found the secret to happiness. Personally, I've discovered so much about what I thought was real in the last twenty years that actually was a lie or illusion...

Are you sure you didn't create the illusion by determining it to be one?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ketara wrote:
The first of these is the Antikythera Mechanism:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism

Of the three you listed, this is probably the most easily explained because we have textual references to similar mechanisms existing at proximal times.

Also, the notion that we have lost knowledge, for example theories of gravity, is not new Then there's the issue of popular misunderstand, or progressive disdain (ie. we're alive after they died, so we're better). Even Aristotelian gravity is more complex, and accurate, than its often given credit for.

Ketara wrote:
Secondly, is the WOW! Signal:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wow!_signal

Clearly the result of S.R. Hadden's plots.

Otherwise, the Wow! Signal is a case of the absence of data preventing a conclusion.

Ketara wrote:
Finally, I give you the Quackers:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quacker_(sound)

Sean Connery defected from the Soviet Union, and was forced to take Alec Baldwin on board in order to be accepted by his intended port of call: Newfoundland. The "quacking" sound was in fact Mr. Connery cackling at the acting ability of Mr. Baldwin.

I don't beleive anything unless you provide blurry, obscure photos.

YOU HEAR THAT!?! BLURRY OBSCURE PHOTOS!

Slarg232 wrote:I don't beleive anything unless you provide blurry, obscure photos.

YOU HEAR THAT!?! BLURRY OBSCURE PHOTOS!

I'm right their with you Slarg...

I mean, that's how we know the Lock Ness monster is real...and bigfoot

Slarg232 wrote:I don't beleive anything unless you provide blurry, obscure photos.

YOU HEAR THAT!?! BLURRY OBSCURE PHOTOS!

You want photos of soundwaves and radio waves?

Slarg232 wrote:I don't beleive anything unless you provide blurry, obscure photos.

YOU HEAR THAT!?! BLURRY OBSCURE PHOTOS!

You are in luck Slarg. I happen to be an expert on BOP's. Im a BOPologist if you want to get technical... Let me present you with a few of my choice favorites.

This first one is the infamous "building with lipstick taken back in '04.

This one is the aliens dancing around their space ship. Im not sure when it was taken and was sent to me by a colleague. You can clearly see the xenos dancing around their hovering space craft as it emits a strong field of white light.

This one has baffled the BOP community for many years. We havent foggiest clue of what this could be.





Anyway back on topic. OP that Antikythera Mechanism is very interesting. It doesn't surprise me that the Greeks would be the ones to make something like this, Technological whizbangs they were.

Ketara wrote:

Slarg232 wrote:I don't beleive anything unless you provide blurry, obscure photos.

YOU HEAR THAT!?! BLURRY OBSCURE PHOTOS!

You want photos of soundwaves and radio waves?

Pics or it didn't happen.

It isn't necessary to have a theory of gravity to make a machine to predict by clockwork the motion of the planets. It can be done using geometry, which the Greeks were pretty good at.

A killer whale, the fastest known marine life, moves at 35 km/ph.

Not sure where you got that "fact". A sailfish can hit over 110KPH/65MPH.

CptJake wrote:

A killer whale, the fastest known marine life, moves at 35 km/ph.

Not sure where you got that "fact". A sailfish can hit over 110KPH/65MPH.

Only when it's going to jump. I'm talking about pure underwater movement here.

Mako sharks move faster than 35kph, completely underwater.

http://www.elasmo-research.org/education/topics/p_shark_speed.htm

Holy mother. I've heard of the first one. The last two eluded me up until now. The second one sounds like something else I've heard of.... Something like a gigantic whale sound off the coast of chile. Oh well.

I've been hearing a lot about haarp lately.

Oh lord, what theories are going around about HAARP now?

That it's Muse's Live Album?

all 3 are very very cool!

Antikythera Mechanism: its function or purpose is actually not in the least bit amazing or impressive. You've kinda missed the point.

The workmanship/metalwork is the only standout attribute. It has gears ratio'd with amazing accuracy only matched in the industrial revolution. How they made the gears is the only mystery i'm afraid.

The part that makes you really think about the Antikythera Mechanism is that it would have changed the world if it wasn't lost in a shipwreck.

I already knew of the WOW signal, but while curious it is not a smoking gun. Now if we had heard it again that would be different...

USOs are not a new phenomena either.

Now then, while there are countless stories from nutjobs, there are still a huge number of strange encounters from reputable and professional sources. Out of all of that, every single strange tale of some encounter, you realize what it would mean it only even one were true?

The first doesn't surprise me, the greeks had steam engines but never thought to use them as such and instead just made balls spin with them.

The second is pretty weird, could be a radiation burst from some distant object perhaps?

The third doesn't surprise me either, the deep oceans (especially near the poles) are a total mystery to us so god knows what is down there.

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f48/paranormal-thread-creepy-wiki-articles-other-links-tons-content-1418061/


there is some crazy stuff in that thread, have fun, and careful not to blow your mind

All jokes aside, I actually believe the Ancient Alien stuff.

Goddard wrote:

All jokes aside, I actually believe the Ancient Alien stuff.

he was on the Joe Rogan Experience podcast, it was hilarious to say the least

Being a believer in cryptids, and in the vastness of the universe, I think it's quite likely and a little scary that the last two are true.

But I have better things to do than try to figure out the universe- we'll never be able to. We haven't even discovered everything on our own planet! Things just change so quickly, and over such wide spaces...

dogma wrote:...

Ketara wrote:
The first of these is the Antikythera Mechanism:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism

Of the three you listed, this is probably the most easily explained because we have textual references to similar mechanisms existing at proximal times.

Also, the notion that we have lost knowledge, for example theories of gravity, is not new Then there's the issue of popular misunderstand, or progressive disdain (ie. we're alive after they died, so we're better). Even Aristotelian gravity is more complex, and accurate, than its often given credit for.
...

But here is the thing, these lost pieces of knowledge changes the advances of technology and understanding later down the road if they were not lost in the first place. A good example of this is Archimedies' The Method of Mechanical Theorems, a work by him on understanding of infinitesimals, the beginnings of elementary Calculus, which came to rise in the 17th century for use by Isaac Newton, but commented on by Archimedies in ~250BC.

While the mechanism may not seem like much today, it could have been the difference between a Isaac Newton of the 15 or 13th century instead of the 17th century.

Zyllos wrote:
But here is the thing, these lost pieces of knowledge changes the advances of technology and understanding later down the road if they were not lost in the first place. A good example of this is Archimedies' The Method of Mechanical Theorems, a work by him on understanding of infinitesimals, the beginnings of elementary Calculus, which came to rise in the 17th century for use by Isaac Newton, but commented on by Archimedies in ~250BC.

While the mechanism may not seem like much today, it could have been the difference between a Isaac Newton of the 15 or 13th century instead of the 17th century.

The same is true of all lost knowledge, though not relative to Newton.

Its a necessary truth that anything which is known can be forgotten. Its simply something you have to take for granted, and then write fictional explorations of what the world would be like if it were different. The "No Dark Ages" thing is quite popular.

Everytime someone calls themself a pro at halo. Turns out to be true sometimes.

also when someone starts talking about something that sounds like utter BS but turns out to be completely true.

Goddard wrote:

All jokes aside, I actually believe the Ancient Alien stuff.

This guy annoys me to no end.

The ancients did a lot of things we modern people won't (not can't, won't) by the simple expedient of incredibly cheap manpower. We simply can't afford the manpower to do the things they took for granted.

Case in point: The Pharoh, the richest man by far in the entire nation, also the absoulte ruler, and the next best thing to divine, says "I want an enormous pyramid." So the priests organize the religous for brute labor, and the Pharoh pays the experts to supervise, and over 20-30 years it all comes together.

Nowadays, we can't get a company to undertake a 20-month project without a bankruptingly-huge down payment. No wonder we can't figure out how we would recreate the wonders of the ancients; we don't think in terms of tens of thousands of workers over entire decades when it comes to getting work done.


And here this guy comes, "We can't do it today, obviously it was aliens!" Way to sell your ancestors short, dude!