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This is coming from having looked at all the 'why the GK hate' kind of threads out there, so I figured I'd ask, why the hate for some but not others?
Why do people decide it is a good idea to hop up and just rage at armies which they just hear are bad, hear have bad fluff, then link to random things which are basically joke websites, which cover a biased random viewpoint.

GK - they are basically space warrior monks. And who is to say that Gemmel's The Thirty aren't freaking cool. Warrior monks in general. They pray, fight, rest, repeat, except instead of rest, grey knights just fight again. (Talking fluff, no draigo, coteaz or purifier spam complaints. I get that some people have an issue with the 'perfection' of them, which doesn't bug me too much....lets not get into the whole daemonhost thing however, that does bug me, but I don't think an army should be trashed for having two or three things out of place, if it was then almost every army would have this issue, and they aren't all complained about)

Space Wolves - Are vikings. In space. People say 'space vikings' in a derogatory manner and I just...they are VIKINGS. in SPACE. How do you make something as awesome as vikings possibly cooler? Make them 8 foot tall gods of war in space. How do people have an issue with them? (Talking fluff here, not so much rules, I don't want to hear complaints regarding longfang/razorback spam lists)

P.S. what the hell does supersnowflake special marines mean? That always confuses me...is it because their planet has snow?

If you hate spacewolves for being space vikings, why not hate dark angels for being space medieval knights, black templars for being space crusaders, eldar for being space elves, etc. They are all just stereotypes translated into power armour (or something similar) in space.

It just seems silly to hate someone based on general feeling, instead of thinking what makes them fun and interesting.

Bit rambly but yeah, discuss

I do hate eldar for being elves...

And GK just have crap fluff.

Which bits? The Bloodtide? Instead of just saying 'they killed sisters, thats stupid' why not think of it in terms of they did what was necessary to banish the daemon?
Draigo? Well yeah, but not everything is going to be a hit.
Mordrak? I think he has very enjoyable fluff, that mesh well with the rules
Crowe? See Mordrak.

But yeah, if you have your mind made up on GK I doubt anyone will change it. And I'm actually glad to see you hate eldar for the elves thing. In a perverse way that makes me happy.

Also....what does super special snowflake thing mean in regards to wolves? please?

Some people love to hate. If it's new and there's a large banwagon, people will react by then joining the hate wagon.

I love the Space Wolves for being Space Vikings. At least they're honest about what they do, rather than pretending to be sophisticated. They like fights, they like booze. Win.

The only thing I dislike about the Grey Knights is the new fluff. And not just Draigo, though he contributes. It's how everything is even more incorruptible than everything that came before it. I mean, surely if every Grey Knight is totally incorruptible, there should be no problem with each and every one using a daemon weapon? But no, this guy is even more incorruptible than the squad that are even more incorruptible than normal Grey Knights, who are totally incorruptible to start with, but still need to kill Sisters of Battle to protect against corruption.

The Blood Angels are annoying, and not just for the [censored-no more memes for the love of the gods] incident. They didn't need a codex of their own, and their general theme just annoys me for some reason.

Ultramarines are ok, but they don't need to be plastered everywhere. Let someone else have a little spotlight.

Special snowflake is a derogatory term of some kind.

GK fluff made them too perfect. I get they're supposed to be incorruptable to Daemons and that's a cool angle, but that doesn't mean they're invincible or perfect in every way. There's no doubt, no dread, no struggle, and in a grimdark setting like 40k they should be fighting a losing war. Basically everything is "here be daemons, Grey Knights killed them all".

Also the fluff tended to gak on other factions/armies. Sisters of Battle got humiliated again and Draigo owning a Chaos Primarch was beyond ridiculous as is him rampaging around the Warp doing as he pleases.

The hate towards GK fluff is justified. Space Wolves is more a matter of taste I guess, personally I found it boring and the whole riding wolves stuff is a tad ridiculous.

The general consensus is that Grey Knights, Space Wolves and Blood Angels are the 3 "top-tier" armies on the competitive scene at present. People will always hate on the top tier.

Also, it doesn't help that they're all Imperial armies.

Also, it doesn't help that they're all marine armies.

Also, those codexes could have been badly-needed xenos updates rather than the slight deviations from the vanilla marines codex that they are.

Also, Matthew Ward wrote 2 of those codexes.

Also, Blood Angels players are now hating on Grey Knights more than anyone because their psyker defenses make Mephiston look as threatening as an asthmatic kitten.

Did I cover everything there?

And the term "special snowflake" is an insult directed towards someone trying to be different from the norm. However since no 2 snowflakes are exactly alike, logic would dictate that there is no "norm" for snowflakes, thus making the insult redundant.

Old Grey Knights fluff was better.

Space Wolves fluff is silly. Somebody on this board summed up their fluff quite well, but it boils down to them trying to be everything, but not succeeding at any one thing. They try to be funny, drunken, space vikings one moment, then the stalwart super serious space defenders of the imperium the next. It just...bleh.

Then most people dislike the vast amount of Imperium armies, and specifically how all the new power armoured codices were the vanilla book but better.

motyak wrote:GK - they are basically space warrior monks. And who is to say that Gemmel's The Thirty aren't freaking cool. Warrior monks in general. They pray, fight, rest, repeat, except instead of rest, grey knights just fight again.

Except this is what Space Marines are supposed to be. They're warrior monks. They pray, fight, rest, repeat. Only they're 8-foot-tall combat gods, so they don't rest, they just fight again.

The core of GW's conflict (Imperium vs. Chaos) is based on the idea that these warrior monks are imperfect. Even their god-like rulers (Primarchs) were imperfect and fell from grace and turned to Chaos. Most of the Legions have been based on the idea that there is no perfection, they all have their flaws. Space Wolves have the Flesh Change (er, 13th company), Blood Angels have Berzerkers (er, Black Rage), Ultramarines are resistant to change, etc.

Grey Knights ignore this humanizing trait of imperfection. Not only are they 8-foot-tall combat gods who pray, fight, fight, repeat, they're also totally incorruptable and flawless. Remember that time that one of them was corrupted? Totally didn't happen, because they're incorruptable.

People have a problem with perfection because it's dehumanizing.

What I find humorous is that people (not implying anyone here) will defend wardworks and say it's fine. If it was so fine, why are so many people getting uppity about it? Well I'd imagine simply because it sucks.

Take The GW grandmaster. Most people I'm seeing think the story is terrible and stupid. A scant few defend it and say there's a deeper meaning (nothing he does matters). This compared to the fluff of other books that nobody argues about (discounting new books).

Also, why doesn't the chapter master go free the eldar god of life from nurgle? If he can do anything why not do something that has a lasting effect that can't be reversed.

I also used to like GK, not anymore.

If we're talking fluff/lore/style type of complaints, I could never be a space wolf fan because of the yellow shoulder pads. The yellow on spacewolf grey doesn't sit well with me at all.

As a Daemons player, I'm kind of peeved there's an entire faction dedicated to annihilating my army, with the rules to back it up. I know armies tend to balance against one another differently and some match-ups are going to be better than others, but really, that kind of imbalance just shouldn't happen. I won't be holding my breath for Codex: Space Marine Hunters..

Necroshea wrote:What I find humorous is that people (not implying anyone here) will defend wardworks and say it's fine. If it was so fine, why are so many people getting uppity about it?

It's called a freakin' opinion. Just because you and others have one does not mean it's "right".

Their codex zorched my favorite army, marine-less Daemon Hunters.

And no, the Special Charcter+henchemen does NOT make that army playable. I cannot get IG allies, I cannot get BS4 shooty guys, I cannot have 5 Inquisitors running around. My army is D-E-D dead.

And for what? By adding a page or 2 of =I= units GW could have kept the Ordo Malleus around. But they just wiped them out, just like Chaos Cultists my other beloved army.

So y'know what #$%^ 'em.

motyak wrote:It just seems silly to hate someone based on general feeling, instead of thinking what makes them fun and interesting.

motyak wrote:And I'm actually glad to see you hate eldar for the elves thing. In a perverse way that makes me happy.

Wow! Really? I mean, REALLY? Can't decide if you are just a troll or just this topic should be renamed to: "Why do you hate armies that I like (based on stereotypes)? You should hate armies that *I* hate (also based on stereotypes)"

Soladrin wrote:I do hate eldar for being elves...

I couldn't agree more.

nectarprime wrote:

Necroshea wrote:What I find humorous is that people (not implying anyone here) will defend wardworks and say it's fine. If it was so fine, why are so many people getting uppity about it?

It's called a freakin' opinion. Just because you and others have one does not mean it's "right".

Likewise to this. I personally think that most of the Mat Ward/Grey Knights/Blood Angels/Space Wolves hate is just bandwagon riding. People want to be like their friends, or that one cool smart guy they know from the internet, and he hates Mat Ward, so by gummie, they hate Mat Ward. My opinion is just as valid (and as invalid) as anyone else's.

Macok wrote:
Wow! Really? I mean, REALLY? Can't decide if you are just a troll or just this topic should be renamed to: "Why do you hate armies that I like (based on stereotypes)? You should hate armies that *I* hate (also based on stereotypes)"

Yes, really. REALLY. I'm not a troll, else I wouldn't mind when I nick myself with a hobby knife so much. And I'm not telling people to hate the armies that I hate, I can't even think of any armies that I do hate. If I had to pick my least favourite army (as in one with a codex) it'd have to be...tau. I guess. But it's a hard call. I was just asking why people hated armies and if people reckon others are mostly doing it because the sincerely dislike them (like the mod up there somewhere who lost his ability to have cool inquisitorial stormtrooper/IG armies), or if they just hate them for one reason, like 'Draigo is stoopid Q.E.D. the army is stoopid', or if they hate them because 'everyone else hates them, don't leave me behind noooo'

motyak wrote:

Space Wolves - Are vikings. In space. People say 'space vikings' in a derogatory manner and I just...they are VIKINGS. in SPACE. How do you make something as awesome as vikings possibly cooler? Make them 8 foot tall gods of war in space. How do people have an issue with them?

Because they try too hard to be everything, especially contradictory things, and much of their stuff reads like bad internet fanfic.

From their name and look, sure, they look like wild vikings. Fluffwise, they're described variously as wild space pranksters, uncontrollable angry berzerkers, wise veterans, psyker haters, incredible psykers, cunning spymasters, genius subtle commanders, direct and unthinking warriors, werewolves, etc ad nauseum.

There's the awful naming conventions, the ridiculous silly tales (firing artillery by *smell*...and then rushing forward with a valuable and vulnerable artillery vehicle to watch the explosion...), etc. They're wilfully ignorant of the nature of the warp, and yet have some of the best psykers in the universe (who think they draw their power from Fenris, but really don't) but apparently detest psykers.

As someone else noted, they're like Space Hipsters

"Yeah, psykers are bad, we don't have them, we have Runepriests, they harness the native power of Fenris, you've probably never heard of it. "

Again, they try too hard, and come off as hipstery and fanfic-y.

If you hate spacewolves for being space vikings, why not hate dark angels for being space medieval knights, black templars for being space crusaders, eldar for being space elves, etc. They are all just stereotypes translated into power armour (or something similar) in space.

Because they aren't taken to the same awful levels?

I love the Space Wolf codex because it represents marines the way I like. Epic heroes, scouts that can actually be useful, troops that can hold their own in any situation, disciplined devastators etc. The fluff I can deal with, people thinking space vikings are the coolest thing ever, not so much.

I don't like Blood Angels because of aesthetic reasons, its like an army of red Val Kilmer Batmen. Grey knights, I don't like, don't know why, I just don't like them.

I really just hate any newly released army because people tend to swarm around it like theres no tomorrow and i love playing underdog armies. The only exception was space wolves because they are wolves...in space. I love their fluff too.

With the new tau release coming and me being a tau player i'm not sure whether ill stop playing tau until the fad calms down or if i continue playing them

Just play the game and relax, everyone needs to just relax. yeesh.

The Hate Wagon is AV14 with twin-linked hate cannons. It also lacks the ability to move... sorry, got that wrong, it lacks the ability to move on...
Unlike the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT which can do whatever it likes. Like an inter-dimensional herd of buffalo.

I wish people would hate Chaos for a while... Why? Because it'd mean we just got some .

purplefood wrote:The Hate Wagon is AV14 with twin-linked hate cannons. It also lacks the ability to move... sorry, got that wrong, it lacks the ability to move on...
Unlike the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT which can do whatever it likes. Like an inter-dimensional herd of buffalo.

You forgot that the Hate Wagon has 5 structure points, with 9 void shields and living metal. And ceramite plating.
It is permanently immobilized, however.

Durza wrote:I wish people would hate Chaos for a while... Why? Because it'd mean we just got some .

Imagine if in the next dex, you guys got nothing which was usefully cheesy...and yet being the new army, you would still have to deal with people hating one you for months! That'd suck.
Well maybe not too much, you'd have a new dex.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

purplefood wrote:The Hate Wagon is AV14 with twin-linked hate cannons. It also lacks the ability to move... sorry, got that wrong, it lacks the ability to move on...
Unlike the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT which can do whatever it likes. Like an inter-dimensional herd of buffalo.

You forgot that the Hate Wagon has 5 structure points, with 9 void shields and living metal. And ceramite plating.
It is permanently immobilized, however.

It also has the Special Rule: Problems with reality: Any ogic used against the Hate Wagon causes a roll on the following chart:
1-2 Hate some more: That Hate Wagon simply ignores the logic and carries on as nromal
3 Haters gonna hate: The Hate Wagon cannot fire any weapons for the rest of the game
4-6 Logic bomb: The logic has a deadly effect against the Hate Wagon, the Hate Wagon dissolves completly into Inane Arguments.

Grey knights fluff fething sucks. Not to mention how over powered there rules are( i can't play against any of my friends with them because I wipe them off the table turn 3). Though honestly going back to daemonhunter they where far more likeable.

purplefood wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

purplefood wrote:The Hate Wagon is AV14 with twin-linked hate cannons. It also lacks the ability to move... sorry, got that wrong, it lacks the ability to move on...
Unlike the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT which can do whatever it likes. Like an inter-dimensional herd of buffalo.

You forgot that the Hate Wagon has 5 structure points, with 9 void shields and living metal. And ceramite plating.
It is permanently immobilized, however.

It also has the Special Rule: Problems with reality: Any ogic used against the Hate Wagon causes a roll on the following chart:
1-2 Hate some more: That Hate Wagon simply ignores the logic and carries on as nromal
3 Haters gonna hate: The Hate Wagon cannot fire any weapons for the rest of the game
4-6 Logic bomb: The logic has a deadly effect against the Hate Wagon, the Hate Wagon dissolves completly into Inane Arguments.

Hate Cannon special rule - The hate cannon has rerolls to wound against everything. It is S10 AP1 10"
However it is extremely inaccurate and as such can only fire on a roll of a 6, and scatter is resolved at BS0


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gh05tdemon wrote:Grey knights fluff fething sucks. Not to mention how over powered there rules are( i can't play against any of my friends with them because I wipe them off the table turn 3). Though honestly going back to daemonhunter they where far more likeable.

What army do you run? Cause that doesn't sound right.

Personally I don’t mind the root foundations of the Grey Knights fluff, being elite daemon hunting specialists. The previous Grey Knights codex IMO was an excellent piece of work in terms of rules and fluff. The previous codex even had rules for daemon players to even the score against Grey Knight lists as well as rules for non Chaos armies to field daemons (a remember a batrep in WD about a Tau army fielding a Lord of Change).

What I don’t like is the overzealous interpretation of their fluff in the current book. Ward has overstretched their fluff somewhat to portray them as being superheroic and invincible more so than anything else. The nature of their current fluff in my opinion sits out of place in the overall grand scheme of things. That being said, some people like the new comic book direction of their fluff and that doesn’t bother me at all as to each his own.

Lastly I will say one thing about some of the posts in this thread. Having a negative opinion of something, even if it is a popular one, is not “hate wagoning” (difference of opinions and whatnot). In fact, I dare say that making such a blanket statement is in fact “hate wagoning”. As a rule of thumb, if someone provides a detailed and well written response as to why they dislike something (rather than just repost internet memes) than it is not “hate wagoning”, even if it is about Ward.

candy.man wrote:
Lastly I will say one thing about some of the posts in this thread. Having a negative opinion of something, even if it is a popular one, is not “hate wagoning” (difference of opinions and whatnot). In fact, I dare say that making such a blanket statement is in fact “hate wagoning”. As a rule of thumb, if someone provides a detailed and well written response as to why they dislike something (rather than just repost internet memes) than it is not “hate wagoning”, even if it is about Ward.

But those opinions and what not aren't necessarily their own. And I'm willing to bet people who are hating on one army at the mo will happily shuffle on with the herd to hate the next new army, the next one someone else claims is OP, the next one they lose against a few times as they work out how to beat it, etc. If someone has their own opinion about an army and hate it for that reason then cool, but its the regurgitated arguments that you have to wonder about; are they really that poster's opinion? or are they just following the herd