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gh05tdemon wrote:Grey knights fluff fething sucks. Not to mention how over powered there rules are( i can't play against any of my friends with them because I wipe them off the table turn 3). Though honestly going back to daemonhunter they where far more likeable.

I like their fluff...
They are also pretty balanced considering all things.

IMO if you havent played against a supposedly cheesy army, and you post about how overpowered it is, that is hate wagoning. If you played against it a few times, and still find it cheesy, then its not.

But blitza, you could be finding it 'cheesy' because you are unwilling to edit your favourite favourite list of whichever army that you play.

If you are just getting stomped regardless of how hard you try then yeah, you can call whatever you want.

I never really liked GK before and after their 5th ed codex. They always seemed even more flawless, perfect, Mary Sue, blah blah blah than regular SM, but now even moreso. SM are already warrior monks, do we really need a codex about SM's who are warriorsX2 and monksX2?

Then the new codex has it share of silliness, like Draigo and the SoB incident, the amateurish writing espescially about Purifiers, and how they are more pure than pure. The whole codex reeks of puerile oneupmanship (is that one word) in fluff and even rules.

There's also inconsistency: GK are supposed to be incorruptible because they purge emotion yet they honour/idolize their own in their great halls, have an imprisoned daemon locked up in his own severed head like a boastful trophy, and Mordraks' guilt spawned his ghost bodyguard.

Overall the new codex took away the drama and gravity of the old GK. The old GK were never sure that they would win, they had no Dreadknight to cheaply even the battlefield, I mean where's the drama of two giants (a DK and a Greater Daemon) duking it out? A lone warrior facing a daemonic giant is much more effective. It's a matter of scale, look at the terrible retcon of Olanius Pious for more of the same.

They were just lone soldiers standing up to demi-gods, and the rules somehwat reflected this, at least the S6 thing did. Now GK make everything seem so effortless, there's no danger, drama, or sense of inevitable doom. In the old book no matter how valiant the GK's were it always seemed that Chaos would destroy all in the end through attrition. Now you can just get Draigo and the Dreadknights out to solve any problems. Got daemons? Send over the GK and everything will be fine.

Then throw ontop of this the crippling of the Inq on tabletop, which is no fun for pople who had an Inq force or wanted one. Lastly, the whole "kill all the witnesses" thing doesn't jive with me.

As for Space Wolves: They come off as a 13 year olds poorly done fanfic. Which is saying a lot since even regular SM sometimes sound like this. They stick it to the man, are based on Vikings, (who by the way aren't cool but young men obsessed with testostorone seem to think otherwise) and they like to party, which in the world of 40k just comes off as juvenile and is redundant as it shamelessly apes the Orks.

The SW are also hypocrites, they hate psykers yet have some of the most powerful psykers. They are supposed to be frenzied CC berzerkers, I guess like romanticized vikings, yet Long Fangs are one of the most efficient shooty units. They want to do everything, and due to some poor writing they somehow pull it off which comes off as boring, cheap, and Mary Sue-ish. The only thing I like about them is their appreciation for the common man, though considering how many themes the SW take on maybe that should just be a Salamander thing.


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Oh man what wall of text I posted...sorry :S

On the BA nipple armor etc hate, just look at the pic of Uriel Ventris (at least thats what the pic said it was of in the 4th ed codex) in the 5th ed codex. Not only does he have a nipple armored, it is pierced. Food for thought

We fight the long war, not through vain notions of duty and honour, but through a far purer purpose: Hatred. At the height of our glory we were betrayed and cast out by our kin. Ward, Draigo, Goto - these are names I curse. Thorpe, Jervis, Kelly - these are names I revere, names I would follow to the very end. It is this hatred that has sustained me through the long millennia. I tend it with bitterness. I nurture it with the deaths of my former brothers. For I know that when the end is upon us and Andy Chambers is returned, then the false emperor shall be cast down from his sepulchral Golden Throne, and we shall take our rightful place at the side of Andy Chambers, the true Emperor of Mankind.

I hate the GK fluff because not only does it make my =I= army null and void.

The fluff is lame. Before grandmaster and terminators fight off a demon.

Now they have Grey Gundam.

Draigo. Really. Killing a primarch? WTF?

Spacewolves are cool. Game wise I still hate longfang spam.
stupid longfangs.

Blood angels are cool to. I especially like killing the ones with nipples on their armour. Completes my day everytime.

Jimsolo wrote:I personally think that most of the Mat Ward/Grey Knights/Blood Angels/Space Wolves hate is just bandwagon riding

I seem to see the exact opposite. Maybe this is in reference to these forums, but when I explained the fluff to people I met at FLGS tournies, and friends, it was a resounding "wow that's kind of lame". When digging for opinions I always portray things as a neutral party to get the most credible response. Same story with the new cron codex. At the latest tourny, told people that it's all speculation but at this rate it's likely to be true. Told them that necrons are no longer what they're supposed to be, c'tans are controlled through the shards and such and such, they trade with other races, etc.etc. The response was overwhelmingly negative. Just like it's been with GK. Honestly, if anything, it seems like the few people who actually like the fluff just use the bandwagon approach as an excuse to explain why so many people don't like what they like.

this is not meant to be a slight, only what I've truthfully been exposed to as opposed to what other people are telling me how things are.

Also, I like space wolves, they're space vikings, they should be ridiculous. Sadly, the crazy BT will always be my favorite chapter. You know, that whole "the worst loyalist chapter in the eyes of the emperor" bit. Loves me some crazy knightly zealots.

When one pics a side one tends to start to hate the other side. Not always valid but its human nature.

That aside, I think they need to get the order of codex production shifted around to be basic IoM armies and Xeno armies, then after that is done do the variations on an existing theme armies SW DA BA GK DoK ect ect.

I keep seeing that avatar pic nectarprime is using and thinking its Kanluwen, probably from his pruney ninja period.

motyak wrote:

Durza wrote:I wish people would hate Chaos for a while... Why? Because it'd mean we just got some .

Imagine if in the next dex, you guys got nothing which was usefully cheesy...and yet being the new army, you would still have to deal with people hating one you for months! That'd suck.
Well maybe not too much, you'd have a new dex.

I actually had a dream last night where I bought the 6th ed codex. And it was exactly the same as 4th ed. I think murder happened afterwards...

As long as some legion rules return, I won't be too blindingly angry.


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BrainDeleted wrote:We fight the long war, not through vain notions of duty and honour, but through a far purer purpose: Hatred. At the height of our glory we were betrayed and cast out by our kin. Ward, Draigo, Goto - these are names I curse. Thorpe, Jervis, Kelly - these are names I revere, names I would follow to the very end. It is this hatred that has sustained me through the long millennia. I tend it with bitterness. I nurture it with the deaths of my former brothers. For I know that when the end is upon us and Andy Chambers is returned, then the false emperor shall be cast down from his sepulchral Golden Throne, and we shall take our rightful place at the side of Andy Chambers, the true Emperor of Mankind.

You left out Abnett and MacNeill.

Necroshea wrote: Honestly, if anything, it seems like the few people who actually like the fluff just use the bandwagon approach as an excuse to explain why so many people don't like what they like.

+1 to this.

People tend to use blanket statements like “hate bandwagon” and “haters gonna hate” rather too much on these forums and I suspect it is partly motivated by a difference in personal preferences rather than anything else. It’s too easy to debunk someone’s statement as being invalid (due to bandwagoning etc) without discussing the topic in a logical manner.

I don't understand the hate for the Knights, or even Ward for that matter............

I like the grey knights, and I like wards writing.

I think the space wolves aren't as good as they could have been though...

The older SW fluff is what still defines them for me, not the riding wolves into battle.