Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The creation that is "The Emperor" that exists in the warp is now in fact "Malal", The Chaos God who seeks to destroy the other Chaos Gods. The Corpse Emperor who resides on the golden throne no longer functions as anything more than a battery. "The Emperor of the Warp" is in fact a separate entity, and the Failure of the Golden Throne will only threaten his continued existence in so much as it threatens the ability of man to travel using his light. Should "The Emperor of the Warp" begin to take victories in the Grand Game, won by the those whom he raises to Daemon hood, Draigo and Sanguinor, the warp will begin to settle, and man will be able to travel in the immaterium without fear.

Thoughts, besides the Heresy stamp?

Malal is no longer a GW IP, due to copyright and ownership issues.

Also, the Emperor pre-dates Malal. He, technically, predates the Chaos Gods themselves.

No.

To expand: there is no Emperor in the Warp to start with. Manifestation of angels and such could just be the product of powerful psykers who want to encourage allies, or hallucinations. Draigo isn't a daemon, whatever else he may be. Malal doesn't want the Warp to settle. If anything, his power would make it even more dangerous, since not only would it be warring against anything inside it, it would also be warring with itself.

In conclusion, No.

Durza wrote:No.

To expand: there is no Emperor in the Warp to start with. Manifestation of angels and such could just be the product of powerful psykers who want to encourage allies, or hallucinations. Draigo isn't a daemon, whatever else he may be. Malal doesn't want the Warp to settle. If anything, his power would make it even more dangerous, since not only would it be warring against anything inside it, it would also be warring with itself.

In conclusion, No.

I don't want to appear to be in support of Emperor-as-Malal, but what do you mean "there is no Emperor in the Warp"? The Emperor has a massive warp presence.

sirrah wrote:

Durza wrote:No.

To expand: there is no Emperor in the Warp to start with. Manifestation of angels and such could just be the product of powerful psykers who want to encourage allies, or hallucinations. Draigo isn't a daemon, whatever else he may be. Malal doesn't want the Warp to settle. If anything, his power would make it even more dangerous, since not only would it be warring against anything inside it, it would also be warring with itself.

In conclusion, No.

I don't want to appear to be in support of Emperor-as-Malal, but what do you mean "there is no Emperor in the Warp"? The Emperor has a massive warp presence.

I mean that the Emperor isn't purely a Warp presence. His physical body is sort of still alive, and it ties him as a living being. He has a Warp presence, but he's not in the Warp.

I'm generally not a big fan of anything that presents the Emperor as being anything other than the Emperor, but depending on how the Chaos Gods view themselves[1], and how they see the Emperor and the Warp[2], for all I know maybe they do see him as one of them, but twisted away from the true path of Chaos. In that case, at least to other Gods, then yes, the Emperor would be Chaos God #5-- but it's very shaky logic that gets us there.

[1] The Chaos Gods and their followers by extension either refer to themselves as being evil (either as a genuine if idiotic belief that they are the de facto Bad Guys, or in a kind of sarcastic rebellion against the Imperium's idea of good), or they consider themselves holy and on a sacrosanct mission against the evil ignorance of the Imperium et al.

[2] As "Chaos" and "Warp" seem to have so much in common, almost any god that operates in or otherwise deals with the Warp could technically, albeit tenuously, be called a "Chaos" god.

I'm not claiming he is Malal. I'm arguing the Emperor has replaced the role of Malal (Whom I obviously misunderstood as a concept) seeking the Destruction of the other Chaos Gods.

Immaterium Beings is a better term for them.

Psienesis wrote:Malal is no longer a GW IP, due to copyright and ownership issues.

Also, the Emperor pre-dates Malal. He, technically, predates the Chaos Gods themselves.

Technically the Chaos Gods pre-date the Emperor and their own creation...
The Warp doesn't have linear time like real space does.

Malal still exists in concept, he's the minor Chaos God Malice which the Sons of Malice CSM worship. I do agree he should have a bigger role in the story, I find him to be a cool concept.

purplefood wrote:
Technically the Chaos Gods pre-date the Emperor and their own creation...
The Warp doesn't have linear time like real space does.

Which is funny, since the Emperor was born in real time almost 10 thousand years before Khorne (the first of the big 4).

DarknessEternal wrote:

purplefood wrote:
Technically the Chaos Gods pre-date the Emperor and their own creation...
The Warp doesn't have linear time like real space does.

Which is funny, since the Emperor was born in real time almost 10 thousand years before Khorne (the first of the big 4).

Two thousand, assuming Khorne was born at the earliest time possible given in the timeline.

Malal is cooler than the Emperor, thus you're logic is impossible

bombboy1252 wrote:Malal is cooler than the Emperor, thus your logic is impossible

Don't defy my powers of logic, young one. I'm like a logic master or something.

Durza wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

purplefood wrote:
Technically the Chaos Gods pre-date the Emperor and their own creation...
The Warp doesn't have linear time like real space does.

Which is funny, since the Emperor was born in real time almost 10 thousand years before Khorne (the first of the big 4).

Two thousand, assuming Khorne was born at the earliest time possible given in the timeline.

8000 BC for the Emperor
1200s AD for Khorne

Sorry, must've misremembered.

Durza wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:Malal is cooler than the Emperor, thus your logic is impossible

Don't defy my powers of logic, young one. I'm like a logic master or something.

I shall defy you're logic! Malal is cooler then the Emperor hands down...does the Emperor get stronger when the 4 other chaos gods get stronger? no...that's Malal!!!! HAAAAAAAAA

Blood for the blood...err....Blood for the renegade god!

Defying logic is... illogical. Malal doesn't get stronger automatically with the others, IIRC he feed off the conflicts between them.

Malal got wtfpwned by a copyright lawsuit.

Any "god" in the warp will have always existed as long as whatever it was that lead to their creation has existed (EG Ork Gods and Eldar gods will have existed as long as they have, Khorne will have existed in some form as long as violence has, Nurgle as disease, etc.) The question is not "which god came first" it is "which god gained sentience first", because it does not seem to be an automatic guarantee that an emerging god will start out sentient.

By that same token one ight treat the Emperor (or God Emperor) as being separate from any potential "god of humanity" - tHe Emperor migth be its Avatar, perhaps, but he is a distinct and separate entity (Hell, going by the HH, he doesnt even seem to be aware of some higher power.)

Also, insofar as I am aware about Malal/Malice, he is a god more in the lines of Khorne/Slaanesh/Tzeentch/Nurgle, in that he is an "aspect/nature" type God - he's tied to specific concepts and attitudes. Whereas the "human" God that the Emperor represents (or may turn into eventually) is a species-created god (like Eldar and Ork gods.)

Psienesis wrote:Malal got wtfpwned by a copyright lawsuit.

Who did the sueing?

Malal is the Chaos God of Chaos. Literally, he is the embodiment of Chaos's destructive nature. He isn't the God that wants to destroy Chaos, to the contrary, his goal is to create Chaos everywhere. The Emperor as a Chaos God is against Chaos, anathema to everything it is, he would be the embodiment of order.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:

Psienesis wrote:Malal got wtfpwned by a copyright lawsuit.

Who did the sueing?

The guy who created Malal whilst working for GW. He left the company and took the idea with him.

I prefer tot hink of Malal and his strikingly badly written Sons of Malice to be not in continuity, as I happen to prefer good fluff.

Melissia wrote:I prefer tot hink of Malal and his strikingly badly written Sons of Malice to be not in continuity, as I happen to prefer good fluff.

Psssssh Mel, you just don't like the sons of malice because they om-nom-nom'd the sisters


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Durza wrote:Defying logic is... illogical. Malal doesn't get stronger automatically with the others, IIRC he feed off the conflicts between them.

I'll have to double check lexicanum and the wiki...also, do you know what book he first appeared in?

Melissia wrote:I prefer tot hink of Malal and his strikingly badly written Sons of Malice to be not in continuity, as I happen to prefer good fluff.

Agreeing with Melissa here...

I'll have to double check lexicanum and the wiki...also, do you know what book he first appeared in?

The original rulebook for Warhammer Fantasy Role-Play and an adventure book titled "Something Rotten in Kislev".

How do you get this with Khorne being made about 1,200 AD?

The gods formed during the Celestial War against the Old Ones. Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch all came about from the birth screams of the Eldar race. The Eldar were the most gifted of the Old Ones children. Also made at this time were the original Orks before their race was broken apart at wars end.

It was Slaanesh that was "born" during the fall thousands of years ago. But even then its presence was always in the Warp just not fully aware until the moment of its "birth" when the psychic power of the Eldar went into overdrive.

What beat the Old Ones was the assault by Chaos daemons while they where fighting the C'tan. It has been speculated that without the interference of Chaos, the Old Ones would have fought the C'tan to a stand still.

LegacyOfBaal wrote:How do you get this with Khorne being made about 1,200 AD?

Khorne formed during humanities Middle ages. Liber Chaotica, the current Daemons of Chaos book or possibly Realm of Chaos.

The gods formed during the Celestial War against the Old Ones. Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch all came about from the birth screams of the Eldar race. The Eldar were the most gifted of the Old Ones children. Also made at this time were the original Orks before their race was broken apart at wars end.

No they didn't. Each formed much, much later, individually. The War in Heaven simply turned the Warp into a place of chaos. Notice 'chaos' is spelled with a lower-case 'c'. This is from every source detailing this event.

It was Slaanesh that was "born" during the fall thousands of years ago. But even then its presence was always in the Warp just not fully aware until the moment of its "birth" when the psychic power of the Eldar went into overdrive.

True.

What beat the Old Ones was the assault by Chaos daemons while they where fighting the C'tan. It has been speculated that without the interference of Chaos, the Old Ones would have fought the C'tan to a stand still.

You're making this up. Chaos Daemons are never mentioned. Oh, and the speculation is being done by you, and you alone unless you source your info.

I think he may be thinking of the Enslaver Plague, but yes, he's completely wrong on every point except Slaanesh.

"Unfortunately, the raw emotions and collective unconscious beliefs of these new races altered the psychically-active Immaterium, creating their Gods and the daemons of Chaos. The introduction of these warlike and psychic races into the galaxy had the side effect of warping the Immaterium - the war, pain, suffering and destruction of the galaxy unleashed during the conflict was reflected in the Immaterium, literally changing its nature into that of the current chaotic and intrinsically hostile psychic dimension called the Warp. The innocuous entities which had naturally existed in the Immaterium were twisted into voracious and hostile predators."

It was the enslaver plague that broke the Old Ones. But the Immaterium became the warp then.