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I am asking if upgrade characters can be given special weapons. A simple example is a marine sergeant with a plasmagun. He is given the plasmagun as the squad can take one.

Not legal. RTM

Now there are some cases that this is ok.

The Justicar for the Greyknights can have a psycannon.

What special weapons are you talking about? Lascannons? Flamers? Powerweapons? Powerfist?

No, the Justicar can NOT have a psycannon.

In almost every codex on the page where they explain what the different components of the army list entry means it will tell you under the explaination for the squad's options that they can only be taken by normal squad members and not the characters.

Well I know brother captains for the GK can have a psycannon. I'll have to check again on the justicar. Be back when I have the codex.

We already know you don't own a codex.

And what sort of mental midget answers questions when he doesn't own or have access to the rules?

Well, guess we now know.

IIRC, Psycannons can be purchased from the Armoury. This does not give a unit leader the ability to be upgraded using the "unit upgrades" in the unit entry, which is what the original question was about.

No, you cannot give the Sgt the plasma gun, but you can buy him a plasma pistol from the armoury.

Posted by blue loki on 03/02/2006 11:09 AM
IIRC, Psycannons can be purchased from the Armoury.

Please read page page 16 of Codex Daemonhunters, second paragraph on the top of the page. Justicars can NOT be equipped with a psycannon.

No problem Ghaz, like I said, IIRC. That was not my point anyway, all of the Psycannon talk hijacked the thread.

Ok the Justicar is a Greyknight.  Greyknights can take psycannons.  Now on page 29 it says the Justicar can have any equipment allowed to him.

Now on the note section of the armoury list MUST it say Justicar?

I think this is an interesting question. I have often wondered if something like this would ever matter outside of my own armies but obviously it has come up. For instance: IG meltabombs cost 5 points as a wargear purchase. However, in the Storm Trooper entry it states that the squad can have meltabombs at 4 points per model. So, if the squad is led by a vet sarge does he pay more for his meltabombs?

If a marine assault squad is led by a normal sarge can he have a plasma pistol? I don't really see the difference if the sarge takes it or one of the boys. Is there a rulebook entry somewhere that I'm missing?

(edit)

Ahh, nevermind.  I have been missing something.  The marine dex lists the squad as having a Sergeant and x amount of Space Marines.  Then, it tells us that x number of  'Space Marines' may have these weapons or whatever.  So that answeres the marine question.  The stormy one is probably moo anyways because nobody I know ever uses meltabombs with storm troopers...or storm troopers.

Ok the Justicar is a Greyknight. Greyknights can take psycannons. Now on page 29 it says the Justicar can have any equipment allowed to him.

Now look up at the top of the armoury page. Grey Knights in power armour can only take Wargear from the Armoury. The Psycannon is in the Weapons list, not the Wargear list.

If you look at the note on the side of Psycannon (*3) it says that Grey Knights can take it.

Well, you could always put your Justicar in artificer armor, then it would be legal for him to take a psycannon.

If you look at the note on the side of Psycannon (*3) it says that Grey Knights can take it.

I honestly don't know why I bother sometimes, but just in case somebody actually believes you to be a reliable source...

P1: Daemonhunter Codex, p16: "Grey Knights in power armor may only choose items from the wargear list."
P2: A Justicar is a Grey Knight in power armor.
P3: Psycannons are listed in the armory under "Two-Handed Weapons", not "Wargear".
C: Justicars cannot take psycannons.

Cuda is correct though...a Grey Knight Justicar is no longer a "Grey Knight in Power Armor." so they can take psycannons. That's one expensive psycannon.

To CaptAnderton,

Ugh, dude, can you please read the rules before you post? Or at least change your sig?

(*3) means that the non-power armoured Grey Knights can use those weapons. Page 16 clearly says that power armoured Grey Knights can't choose from the weapons lists in the Armoury. Good gaming!

Clarence

Oh so Greyknights can't take psycannons? Because I have models with them having psycannons bought that way. You have to look at that little chart key to the right of the list. Where it tells you who can have what.

1 Inquistiors and Inquistot lords only.
2 Inquisitors, Inquisitor Loards and Grey Knight heroes only.
3 Inquisitors, Inquisitor Loards and Grey Knights only.
4 Although a storm shield is not a weapon as such, it counts as a single-handed weapon because nothing else can be used by the arm holding the shield.
5. Grey Knight vehicles only.

So you look at psycannon and it says this .....Psycannon*3......30 pts.

Now if you can find somewhere it says that Justicars are not Greyknights then they can't have it.

And there is more than one type of Grey Knight who has access to the Armoury. Those Grey Knights are permitted to purchase a psycannon.

A Grey Knight in power armour can only purchase wargear from the Armoury. He can not purchase weapons.

Just because Grey Knights can purchase psycannons does not mean that ALL Grey Knights necessarily can.

Help! I've become one of those people caught trying to show CaptAnderton the real rules!

Dude -  answer me this: what does

"Grey knights in Power Armour may only choose items from the WARGEAR list..." (p.16 of codex: Daemonhunters - emphasis mine)

mean to you?

Is a Justicar a Grey Knight?
Yes!
Does he come in power armour?
Yes!
So can he choose WEAPONS from the Armoury?
NO!

So what does

"3 Inquisitors, Inquisitor Loards and Grey Knights only."

mean then?

It means that only those models have access to those items marked with a "3" - so an Inquisitorial Storm Trooper Veteran CANNOT take items marked with a  "3."

So if power-armoured Grey Knights can't take WEAPONS from the Armoury, why are certain WEAPONS marked "Inquisitors, Inquisitor Loards and Grey Knights only?"

Because Grey Knights in TERMINATOR armour can take them!

Sorry for the caps/italics/bold/underline folks, but I think CaptAnderton needs the emphasis.  I'd use colours too if I wasn't so lazy. Good gaming!

Clarence

Oh so Greyknights can't take psycannons? Because I have models with them having psycannons bought that way.

Seriously, this is a joke, right?

Ok lets try this again. Why are you people getting so upset. I'm not upset and I'm not trying to make you upset. I'm just pointing out things.

A Jusiticar is a Grey Knight. He leads Grey Knights. His squad can have psycannons up to 2. Now that note says that if there is a 3 on it then Grey Knights can have it.

Big thing now. Are you saying that the word JUSTICAR has to be listed on that note. I don't think so because Brother Captains and Grand Masters can have it and they are not on that note. They do however have terminator armour and the * covers that.

I take the * and the 3 has a blanket "you can have this." So Terminators, Inquisitors, Inquisitor Lords and Grey Knights can have a psycannon. Just tell me what a Grey Knight Justicar is?

You all are caught up on this wargear rule when on page 29 it says equipment alllowed. By the 3 he is allowed a psycannon.

Aaaaanyway...

Daemonhunter codex p. 20:
"Options: This lists the different weapons and equipment options for the unit and any additional points cost for taking thse options. If a squad is allowed to have models with upgrades, then these must be given to ordinary unit members, not to a character in the unit."

Popeye swings...and yet another miss.

Not true. A squad of Grey Knight Terminators can have up to 2 Psycannons. A squad of Grey Knights can have 2 of them. A Dev squad can have up to 4. Now if you put 1 Psycannon on a Terminator then your Brother Captain can have a Psycannon. Now again you are missing the part that says (3) on Psycannon. ALL GREY KNIGHTS can take Psycannons. So lets go over the list.

Master can have it.
Brother Captain can have it.
Inquisitor can have it.
Inquisitor Lord can have it.
Grey Knight Terminator can have it.
Grey Knight can have it.
Justicar can have it.

Are you tellling me all these choices can have it but the Justicar can't have it?
You can't say that. The (*3) note on Psycannon tells you who can have it. Don't say it has to say Justicar because if it did it would have to say Master, Captain, and Justicar. We all know that Masters and Captains can take it. Don't argue that Vet Seargeants can't take special weapons because for the Grey Knights it appears that they can.

The rules become a little too messy if you treat characters as normal unit members. For instance, if you were to purchase a lascannon for a devastator squad veteran sarge, it isn't listed as a one-handed or two-handed weapon for the character's limit. Does this mean then that the veteran sarge gets a boltgun, a lascannon, a powerfist and a bolt pistol?

I tried writing a Saim-Hann list a ways back under the idea that I could attach warlocks to jetbike squads and then upgrade the warlock jetbike to have the shuriken cannon (at BS 4) for the same points cost. Obviously I couldn't, and this is the same situation. While it doesn't seem like as obvious an advantage for the justicar, there must be something that GW didn't think of so they covered their arses by treating characters differently from regular squad members.

- Oaka

I do think they didn't mean to imply that the Justicar could take one but from what I see it doens't say he can't. Now maybe * is saying that terminators which include the Captain/Master can have psycannons and the 3 means that regular grey knights can have them also. This then would exclude the Justicar. I however don't think thats what they mean. I do however think the codex is not clear.

Dude... you're pinning too much on that *3.

Look at it differently.

1 covers inquisitors and inquisitor lords.
2 covers grey knight heros (the HQ choice)
3 covers other grey knights.

Now what you're missing... is that the elite selection grey knight terminators is led by a brother-captain that IS NOT a grey knight hero.

That entry, the (*3) is what allows the 2nd psycannon (or incinerator for that matter) in the elite grey knight terminator squad. And that's all it allows. You still have to follow the rule above it that grey knights in power armor can only take items from the wargear list.

darn!! ... ignore...ANDERTON ... button  ... not working!!!!!!!!!!

AAAARRRRGGGHHHHH!!!!!

To CaptAnderton:

You didn't answer my question.

What does

"Grey Knights in Power Armour may only choose items from the

WARGEAR

list" mean to you?

So does this mean I can take a squad of 10 Grey Knights all with psy-cannons? I mean, if the (3) over rides the rule that Grey Knights in power armor can't take stuff from the Weapons list, then surely it also over rides the rule that normal guys can't take equipment from the Weapons list as well, right?