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Seeing as how Tyranids are not of our(the 40k) galaxy, couldn't there be something that would basically devestate their biological make up like a virus or bacteria? Kind of like War of the Worlds? Or are they just that adaptive?

Oh, and there's War of the Worlds spoilers in this thread. I hope I didn't ruin it for anyone.

No, because that was the worst "twist ending"ever invented.

The Tyrannids just "evolve" too quickly. Each fleet rapidly mutates away from its brethren, so a biological or chemical trick that works against one Tyrannid invasion won't work against a later one. We even have a fluff example of the Imperium using such a trick in one instance. The original Space Hulk missions end with the Blood Angels distributing an anti-genestealer toxin throughout the Hulk. Said toxin was never mentioned again.

Of course, it's probably also important to note that the original Space Hulk pre-dates the establishment by GW of a link between genestealers and tyrannids.

Tyranids are extremely adaptive. They tried to poison Hive Fleet Leviathan but the it evolved before they could do any significant damage to it.

If the virus/bacteria went straight for the Norn-Queens it might have an impact by disrupting the reproductive center of the hive fleet. This would counteract the greatest strength of the hive fleet.

The Hive Mind's psychic ability to evolve extremely rapidly basically immunizes it to all natural biological threats. It is vulnerable to them, but it can react and evolve an immunity to any hazards at a speed which is too fast for any bacteria or viruses to do any real damage.

The Psychic nature of the Tyranids is the biggest reason Bio-weaponry really doesn't do anything, and is in fact a VERY bad idea. The Ordo Xenos has even prohibited the use of Virus bombs on Tyranid forces, except in the case of exterminatus, they don't want to give away any ideas. Exterminatus works fast enough so the Hive Mind can't react, but just dropping smaller bombs on advancing forces is prohibited(IE: no bombs unless you can insure no nids survive to react to it)

soladrin wrote:No, because that was the worst "twist ending"ever invented.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/195/whatatwist797456.jpg/sr=1

I actually found it to be a clever ending. Maybe a little lame as far as wanting some nice action and a heroic scene where the hero saves us all, but for a plot twist it was grade A. "Nobody expects the Spanish Flu!!!"

War of the worlds is stupiddd.
Just effing stupid.
An alien race which has the brains to warp onto a planet and over throw all major militaries.
But they have no clue their immunities suck bawls.
They never thought of it or prepared?

I don't think the Tyranid overmind would be quite so stupid.
And if some agent were to introduce a pox to the nids, I'm sure the Overmind would create a new genus

Lets get this straight, the movie sucked.

the original book was alright. the movie changed alot of things.

I read once that an Imperial force commander used several virus bomb against a Tyranids hoard. He stalled the hoard for a little while, until the next day when the Tyranids attacked again, USING THE SAME VIRUS AGAINST THE HUMANS!

As Jurgen has proven, the only way to insure a Tyranid is dead is to shoot it with a meltagun

Even though there's no way to support 'Nids being defeated by bacteria canonically, that doesn't stop me from wishing it did work like that, because the Tyranids are as boring as crap in a freezer.

You got to remember the book was written a long time ago. Spilburg must have just skimmed the back cover, personally I think inerpendance day is a better version as it dosnt try and be like the book.

As for tryanids getting bird flu think the adapt too fast. Now what about necrons and the 2k virus...

lordrevege wrote:War of the worlds is stupiddd.
Just effing stupid.
An alien race which has the brains to warp onto a planet and over throw all major militaries.
But they have no clue their immunities suck bawls.
They never thought of it or prepared?

Haven't seen any of the movies.

In the book, they're from Mars. The martians have a giant cannon on the surface of their planet which they fire roughly two dozen times. Each shot launches a gigantic canister that lands and releases three martians that then build their tripod war machines.

The invaders' "high technology" in the book comes from their ability to survive the trip, and the giant invisible heat rays that they use as a weapon on their gigantic armored tripod walkers. They also use poison gas (which, given that the book predates WWI, hadn't seen use in war yet) and there are hints that they have a flying machine of some sort.

A modern-day military would probably have little trouble defeating the martians in the original book.



And Thunderchild is awesome!

For those of you who think War of the Worlds is stupid, please remember it was published in 1898. Ignore the recent film, it's a dreadful Americanisation of the story, which is actually set in England at the turn of the century, and is really poorly acted out with a bad script & awful direction.

The bacteria 'twist' I actually like. The Martians have the humans defeated, the human machines of war are almost all ineffective against the Martians but in the end it's tiny bacteria that bring them down - that the Martians didn't think of that aspect can be attributed to several things; 1. Their envy & eagerness to obtain the planet may have left them careless (especially as they were fleeing Mars) 2. At the time of writing it was not known if there was bacteria on Mars or not, 3. Wells got a little stuck with a solution.

Now to be on topic as to Tyranids; Tyranids adapt as they 'conquer' planets & consume their populations so natural toxins/bacteria are out of the question. Specially formulated toxins, such as those found in Hellfire bolt rounds, will have an effect on 'nids, but can enough of these toxins be produced to wipe out entire Hive fleets?

Soladrin wrote:No, because that was the worst "twist ending"ever invented.

The delicious metaphor for European Colonialism getting wiped out by disease in a reverse metaphor for the way indigenous populations were affected by old world contagions? Its one of the most layered and smartest endings in literature.

War of the Worlds is more than some campy alien invasion novel meant for hard science and action.

Soladrin wrote:No, because that was the worst "twist ending"ever invented.

It's cleverer than most endings...

Las wrote:

Soladrin wrote:No, because that was the worst "twist ending"ever invented.

The delicious metaphor for European Colonialism getting wiped out by disease in a reverse metaphor for the way indigenous populations were affected by old world contagions? Its one of the most layered and smartest endings in literature.

War of the Worlds is more than some campy alien invasion novel meant for hard science and action.

to be fair, the natives gave us syphilis

The natives had syphilis. Columbus gave it to us.

Not from what I learned in history.

Well, its been shown that the Tyranids got screwed over by their own Evolution

PresidentOfAsia wrote:Well, its been shown that the Tyranids got screwed over by their own Evolution

One hive fleet did under very specific circumstances, and were only defeated through intervention by the Imperium stepping in and helping the Tau.

Las wrote:

Soladrin wrote:No, because that was the worst "twist ending"ever invented.

The delicious metaphor for European Colonialism getting wiped out by disease in a reverse metaphor for the way indigenous populations were affected by old world contagions? Its one of the most layered and smartest endings in literature.
War of the Worlds is more than some campy alien invasion novel meant for hard science and action.

Someone knows what those stacks of paper with little ink scratches in them are for?

-Loki- wrote:

PresidentOfAsia wrote:Well, its been shown that the Tyranids got screwed over by their own Evolution

One hive fleet did under very specific circumstances, and were only defeated through intervention by the Imperium stepping in and helping the Tau.

The nids suffer from something the Necrons suffered from for a very long time. Being the "Bad Guys". As such in the fluff, they must be nigh unstoppable, or the actions of the heroic heroes aren't quite as heroic, and so the Nids get lots of reasons why they are scary, and not so many why they are not scary.

However, they suffer from having a terrible writer do the fluff for them. The way Cruddace did them should make them scary, with battles being won by heroic actions and loss of life and territory horrendous.

Unfortunately, Cruddace emphasised the heroic actions, not the terrible loss of life and territory. The fluff is full of hive fleets eating their way through multiple worlds, then having huge amounts of fluff describing the heroics that brought them down. What it ends up doing is making Tyranids out to be incredibly boring, non-threatening space locusts.

They need better fluff writers for the bad guys.

Careful. Or your genestealers may be negotiatating trade treaties with the Tau before long, doing the old "Necro BA" fistbump.

Because Hivemind 1 just woke up and realized Hivemind 2 is coming, and Hivemind 1 hates Hivemind 2....

I like Tyranids mostly for the models. Giant dinosaur space bugs that eat worlds. If they want to make huge changes to the fluff, go for it. It's their game, Tyranids are their creation, and they can do what they want with it. I enjoy playing 40k more than reading its fluff, though I do enjoy reading well written fluff.

Just get someone good to write it.

I think that's what irks people most of all. If the fluff was entertaining like it was in previous editions, people wouldn't be half as angry over it.

CpatTom wrote:Careful. Or your genestealers may be negotiatating trade treaties with the Tau before long, doing the old "Necro BA" fistbump.

Because Hivemind 1 just woke up and realized Hivemind 2 is coming, and Hivemind 1 hates Hivemind 2....

Tyrannids as originally (i.e. Rogue Trader) written actually did negotiate. It's not entirely clear what they negotiated since the fluff still described them as rather voracious planet eaters. But the Zoats were specifically described as a Tyrannid biorganism that was designed to act as diplomats with other races.

CpatTom wrote:Careful. Or your genestealers may be negotiatating trade treaties with the Tau before long, doing the old "Necro BA" fistbump.

You know, I found these kinds of statements annoying before, but now that I've actually read the passage in question, they just make me want to punch something.

I honestly wish alliances between factions were more common in 40K; this galactic free-for-all is damned tiresome. And Tyranids that negotiated or even just said things at all would be more interesting than the TPK-on-legs we have now.

Ixion wrote:

CpatTom wrote:Careful. Or your genestealers may be negotiatating trade treaties with the Tau before long, doing the old "Necro BA" fistbump.

You know, I found these kinds of statements annoying before, but now that I've actually read the passage in question, they just make me want to punch something.

I honestly wish alliances between factions were more common in 40K; this galactic free-for-all is damned tiresome. And Tyranids that negotiated or even just said things at all would be more interesting than the TPK-on-legs we have now.

I have nothing against impromptu alliances. I think they are realistic to consider when two forces face an enemy that out classes them. That being said, Cron's were not a force that would be interested in Alliance of any sort prior to the change in fluff. As the nids sit now, I dont reasonably see how they could be in an alliance either, and I leave that choice up to the Nid players, cause Im not the biggest nid fan anyway.

I only know of one circumstance that that would work.

Against Hive Fleet Leviatian, Inquisitor Kryptman captured a first wave Lictor. This gribbly weas then turned into a virus, and a Kill Team Deathwatch was sent to deliver it to the Norn Queen. The result was that the queen produced babies that keeled over and died in contact with something on the planet, like the dirt or air.

If it had just been sent to the swarm, the Queen would have amde babies who were immune to it, but because she had it, she couldn't adapt out, because she adapted the virus too. It never worked again.