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Tomb spiders add one base to a unit of scarabs within 6". I assume the only other requirement is that the base be placed within coherency because this is not spelled out.
The trick ... Can you, with this ability and 9 tomb spiders, conga line the existing unit by adding scarabs so that the unit stretches towards your opponents deployment zone? In theory this would give you a 33.5 inches on the first turn. So basically you could assualt anything you wanted with a good amount of scarabs that are 19 man strong.

Hmmm I don't have my codex to hand, so I'm not sure about that. Off the top of my head, I don't think there is a restriction (so long as you maintain coherency).

That having been said, it's going to be a moot point as of 10AM tomorrow.

Nono, I am talking about with the upcomming of for some of us the current codex. 2011

I don't quite think I understand what you mean? Are you going to an event that is using the old codex?

I have no idea what the new rules for Tomb Spiders + Scarabs will be in the new codex.

Ahh ok, well the new tomb spiders allow you to add 1 scarab base to and existing unit of scarabs. In theory you can have 9 do the same to a unit all in turn, each time stretching further towards your opponent.

Its possible - though we can't really make a ruling on this until we see the codex in the print. We can probably answer this question tomorrow though!

I can answer this tonight, codex is sitting at my house waiting for me to un-box it.

Damn you sir! Mine needs to wait till 10AM tomorrow to be collected :( - do share when you get it though - the thought of first turn charging scarabs into a land raider fills me with amusement

I feel confident in saying that they would have to be placed in coherency with the existing unit.

As to the question if you can 'conga line' scarabs from multiple spiders then the rules that tell you when the scarabs are created should answer your question.

All it says is that you add a scarab base to a unit of scarabs within 6 inches. Says nothing about coherency with the spider or where the scarabs can or can't be placed.

If its not in coherency then its not with the unit, is it?

I think he means that it is placed in a Scarab unit within 6" of the Tomb Spyder, placed within coherency of the Scarabs. So he thinks it would be possible to have 9 Tomb Spyders within 6" of some Scarabs make 9 Scarabs and then space them out in a conga line.

You are right ghaz the scarab does have to be placed with the existing unit. But each time you create a scarab after the first the new one only has to be in coherency with one that was add prior ... correct? hence the conga?

Again, that depends on when the scarabs are created. For example, if it says that they are created "... at the beginning of the turn" then they would all be created simultaneously and all created scarabs would have to be placed in coherency with the existing scarabs. Hence no 'conga line'.

For the sake of clarity.

Scarab Hive: At the start of each Necron Movement phase, a Conptek spyder that is not locked in close combat can expend energy to create a Canoptek Scarab Swarm.

Nominate a Conoptek Scarab unit within 6" and roll a d6. On a roll of 2-6, add one base to the conoptek scarab unit - the base can move and act normally this turn. (the rest is unrelated to the disscussion)


So ghaz you are saying that you can only add units that would fall under coherency with bases that were there at the start of the movement phase?

I think the intention is that the scarabs can't go beyond that 6 inch qualifier but it doesn't say.

I think the intention is that the scarabs can't go beyond that 6 inch qualifier but it doesn't say

No. The 6" is the maximum distance that the Tomb Spider can be from the scarab swarm that it is adding a base to. It in no way allows the added base to be out of coherency. If the base is over 2" away from the swarm then it was not added to that swarm. Its that simple.


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At the start of each Necron Movement phase...

This indicates that the bases would all created simultaneously as the army only has one Movement phase. Therefore they would have to be placed in coherency with the original swarm since you can't place them in coherency with a base which isn't there. That means no 'conga line'.

Dude, listen to what I said....I know that is the max distance from the swarm the spider can be, I said it sounds like the intention of the rule was to say the scarab swarm could only go up to that 6 inch rang to join the nominated unit. Please don't assume I'm misquoting our misinterpreting rules when I never said that was the hard ruling and in fact stated that the ruling didn't say that and that it was my thought process on their intention of the rule.

Thanks ghaz

Kevin I see what you are saying. But ghaz has the right interpretation, the unit that you add a base to has to be within six, not the scarab itself.

BTW Ghaz do you have any precedents that I could go by on that?

The last WBB allowed it, so that's one against Ghaz' interpretation. Also, it doesn't seem to make sense compared to other similar rulings and other 40k rules.

If there are multiple "at the beginning of the turn" things going on, and they are dependent upon one another, they can't happen at the same time. Iirc, eldar have this issue with psychic powers and guard have it with orders.

In this case, it is impossible to say that the placement of scarabs is simultaneous, because you can't physically place all of them simultaneously, and to keep nine models in coherency with the original squad is hard enough. In addition, if the Stormlord is rolling for night fight at the beginning of the turn, the result of the roll directly impacts decision-making for the necron player. If Night Fight happens, he doesn't have to make scarabs "conga line." If it doesn't happen, he probably wants to conga line because he wants to be certain he makes it into combat.

Clay Williams wrote:Thanks ghaz

Kevin I see what you are saying. But ghaz has the right interpretation, the unit that you add a base to has to be within six, not the scarab itself.

BTW Ghaz do you have any precedents that I could go by on that?

I'm not disagreeing with him though. The main reason I think this though is because of the line "if the scarab can't be placed for any reason it is destroyed." Well, why would they have that line if you can just put the scarab base anywhere in the unit within coherency? With his interpretation (and how the rule is written currently) there would basically never be a time where you couldn't place a base because of having no room. This is why *I* think the interpretation is that the base should be within that 6" bubble around the spider and also in coherency, but I understand the rule doesn't say it that way so it's not going to be played that way this is just what I think GW's INTENTION was.

Kevin, there is no reason to think the bases have to be placed within 6" of the Spyder. The 6" is the measurement to the unit, nothing more.

One situation where you couldn't place any bases would be if the Scarabs are surrounded by enemy units, but not engaged. There could be no room to place any new bases.

I said it sounds like the intention of the rule was to say the scarab swarm could only go up to that 6 inch rang to join the nominated unit...

As MasterSlowPoke pointed out, you do not 'move' the created scarab base. You measure 6" from the Tomb Spider and if the Scarab swarm is in range then the created base is placed anywhere within cogrency with the swarm.


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Also, it doesn't seem to make sense compared to other similar rulings and other 40k rules. If there are multiple "at the beginning of the turn" things going on, and they are dependent upon one another, they can't happen at the same time. Iirc, eldar have this issue with psychic powers...

Actually if I remember correctly, then the Eldar ruling would support my position. They can't use their psychic powers on the turn they come in from reserve because they're not on the table at the start of the turn when their powers are used. Likewise you can't place a created scarab base in coherency with another created scarab base because its not there until the same time as the other base.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:Kevin, there is no reason to think the bases have to be placed within 6" of the Spyder. The 6" is the measurement to the unit, nothing more.

One situation where you couldn't place any bases would be if the Scarabs are surrounded by enemy units, but not engaged. There could be no room to place any new bases.

In that situation you wouldn't roll to do it anyway as to not risk taking a wound on the spider, so that is a moot point.

Also, it's clear you [all] don't understand "intention" so I'm done trying to explain it.

If the Spyders create the scarabs instantly and simultaneously, how does that prevent a conga line? Once all the models appear (simultaneously) in the conga line, with at least ONE model in coherency of the unit, all will be in coherency instantly. Otherwise, each model is created and place in coherency those permitting a conga line.

Because what you are doing requires the scarabs to be created sequentially. They join the existing unit all at once. That means you can't use a base of scarabs you've created in the same turn to determine coherency.


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Also, it's clear you [all] don't understand "intention" so I'm done trying to explain it.

We clearly understand what 'intention' means, but the rules clearly don't say what you think they say and nothing leads us to believe that they 'intended' them to be read as you want them to.

Ghaz wrote:Because what you are doing requires the scarabs to be created sequentially. They join the existing unit all at once. That means you can't use a base of scarabs you've created in the same turn to determine coherency.

Why not? The instant it's on the table it's in coherency(assuming you put them down that way). How could anyone argue that they aren't? In a tournament, if a judge walked over he'd see them in coherency.

What's that saying about easter eggs? If you think you found one, you're reading the rules wrong. Something like that.

My 5 cents on this is that this is entirely legal until an errata is released on the new necron codex. It doesnt mentions anything about the placing of scarab swarms so it seems entirely legal to me. Although your opponent might not agree with this and it could start an argument but as far as the rule, it is rather vague and can be interpreted in the favour of the controlling player.

It doesnt mentions anything about the placing of scarab swarms...

Actually it does. It tells us when (start of each Necron Movement phase) and where (a Canoptek Scarab unit within 6").