Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
"1.a. Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.
b. A particular form of this activity.
2. An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.
3. An active pastime; recreation"
So it can't really be a "sport" per se, but they can be professional competitions, like chess, assuming the games involved are balanced in such a way that skill is the key factor in winning or losing.
I actually very much think it's stupid to call any sort of professional competition in which the players could theoretically compete without standing up a "sport". Hell, golf barely qualifies. Certainly such things take skill, talent, practice, and determination, but they're not sports.
But I suppose I'm splitting hairs; I assume you mean "Video games as professional competition like professional sports", and like I said, the answer is, IMO, yes, as long as skill is the primary factor.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/11/23 02:20:05
Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.
I can think a few new 'sports' using this description...
Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.
Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.
"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation
Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.
I can think a few new 'sports' using this description...
The 2016 Summer Olympics are going to be fantastic.
There are some who walk until their legs fail them and they fall to the ground. I find that respectable.
Then there are those who drag themselves further. I find that admirable.
RatBot wrote:Well, according to the dictionary a "sport" is:
"1.a. Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.
b. A particular form of this activity.
2. An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.
3. An active pastime; recreation"
This.
If there is no physical activity, it's not a sport. Competition =/= sport.
Soladrin wrote:Last time I checked clicking was physical activity, it has more physical activity then chess so bah.
And sport sucks anyway XD Except for when it goes really wrong.
Clicking isn't Physical "exertion"
It is a physical activity....but you're not really "exerting" yourself....unless of course you try really hard to exert yourself, or if you are really.....REALLY unfit
1) It's a competition that depends heavily on physical ability
2) Each team or individual has the ability to directly effect the performance of the opposing teams or individuals
Video games (multi-player ones) fulfill #2, but don't even come close to #1. So, no, video games are not sports.
Perhaps in the future, with motion controls, some video games will be sports, but not now.
It seems like there is an attitude that if something is labeled a game that makes it lesser, so there is an attempt to classify it as a sport, which I guess they imagine lends legitimacy to it. I think it is the difference between saying "I am a professional gamer" and "I am a professional athlete". One sounds better to most people, and perhaps even to the person saying it, much like how all rock stars want to be athletes and all athletes want to be rock stars.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Karon wrote:The games would have to actually be competitive, and not let any game be an esport like it currently is.
Games like DotA, Starcraft, Counter-Strike work.
Games like LoL, Dawn of War, Call of Duty do not.
I can see CoD not working for it (Aim Assist), but what makes LoL different from DotA?
I think it's a balance issue. Just like DoW and Starcraft...
But that can't be right; Let's say five champions are the most overpowered (just pulling my favorites out here); Mordekaiser, Vladimir, Karma, Caitlyn, and Ryze. Both teams have access to the most overpowered champions, so they cancel eachother out balance wise, and it comes down to skill anyway.
No matter how bad the balance is, if both teams have the same composition, it's perfectly balanced match wise.
I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying.
Karon wrote:The games would have to actually be competitive, and not let any game be an esport like it currently is.
Games like DotA, Starcraft, Counter-Strike work.
Games like LoL, Dawn of War, Call of Duty do not.
I can see CoD not working for it (Aim Assist), but what makes LoL different from DotA?
I think it's a balance issue. Just like DoW and Starcraft...
But that can't be right; Let's say five champions are the most overpowered (just pulling my favorites out here); Mordekaiser, Vladimir, Karma, Caitlyn, and Ryze. Both teams have access to the most overpowered champions, so they cancel eachother out balance wise, and it comes down to skill anyway.
No matter how bad the balance is, if both teams have the same composition, it's perfectly balanced match wise.
Moot point, because DotA is balanced (at least in comparison). And will allow for a lot more strategies because of it.
The biggest thing though is the pre-game acquired stuff in LOL eliminates it from any form of professionalism in the world of gaming. DotA also has a much higher skill gap.
Having 2 identical teams doesn't make game balanced, just stupid. It would be like starcraft, but without zerg and protoss.
Karon wrote:The games would have to actually be competitive, and not let any game be an esport like it currently is.
Games like DotA, Starcraft, Counter-Strike work.
Games like LoL, Dawn of War, Call of Duty do not.
I can see CoD not working for it (Aim Assist), but what makes LoL different from DotA?
I think it's a balance issue. Just like DoW and Starcraft...
But that can't be right; Let's say five champions are the most overpowered (just pulling my favorites out here); Mordekaiser, Vladimir, Karma, Caitlyn, and Ryze. Both teams have access to the most overpowered champions, so they cancel eachother out balance wise, and it comes down to skill anyway.
No matter how bad the balance is, if both teams have the same composition, it's perfectly balanced match wise.
Moot point, because DotA is balanced (at least in comparison). And will allow for a lot more strategies because of it.
The biggest thing though is the pre-game acquired stuff in LOL eliminates it from any form of professionalism in the world of gaming. DotA also has a much higher skill gap.
Having 2 identical teams doesn't make game balanced, just stupid. It would be like starcraft, but without zerg and protoss.
What's this pre-game acquired stuff that imbalances the game?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/11/24 09:30:51
Soladrin wrote:The very same thing you guys are always complaining about, flash and all that. Not to mention level bonusses that pass from game to game.
Sorry I misread I thought you were talking about being able to buy handicaps with riot points pre-game which I don't think exists.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/24 10:31:04
Soladrin said it for me. You can't balance a game when a new hero is released every two weeks, first of all.
LoL is for casual play, and isn't even balanced around the competitive scene. Therefore, it isn't even in the league of Dota.
But that can't be right; Let's say five champions are the most overpowered (just pulling my favorites out here); Mordekaiser, Vladimir, Karma, Caitlyn, and Ryze. Both teams have access to the most overpowered champions, so they cancel eachother out balance wise, and it comes down to skill anyway.
No matter how bad the balance is, if both teams have the same composition, it's perfectly balanced match wise.
This kind of gak is why Riot can continue to make a gakky, unbalanced game like LoL, and still make millions of dollars.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/24 15:18:06
Soladrin wrote:The very same thing you guys are always complaining about, flash and all that. Not to mention level bonusses that pass from game to game.
Everyone who plays the game competatively is already level 30 (The highest), so that's a moot point. Everyone can take flash (And Indeed, everyone does) so again, moot point.
Karon wrote:Soladrin said it for me. You can't balance a game when a new hero is released every two weeks, first of all.
LoL is for casual play, and isn't even balanced around the competitive scene. Therefore, it isn't even in the league of Dota.
But that can't be right; Let's say five champions are the most overpowered (just pulling my favorites out here); Mordekaiser, Vladimir, Karma, Caitlyn, and Ryze. Both teams have access to the most overpowered champions, so they cancel eachother out balance wise, and it comes down to skill anyway.
No matter how bad the balance is, if both teams have the same composition, it's perfectly balanced match wise.
This kind of gak is why Riot can continue to make a gakky, unbalanced game like LoL, and still make millions of dollars.
You keep complaining about Unbalance, give me an example.
I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying.
Soladrin wrote:The very same thing you guys are always complaining about, flash and all that. Not to mention level bonusses that pass from game to game.
Everyone who plays the game competatively is already level 30 (The highest), so that's a moot point. Everyone can take flash (And Indeed, everyone does) so again, moot point.
Karon wrote:Soladrin said it for me. You can't balance a game when a new hero is released every two weeks, first of all.
LoL is for casual play, and isn't even balanced around the competitive scene. Therefore, it isn't even in the league of Dota.
But that can't be right; Let's say five champions are the most overpowered (just pulling my favorites out here); Mordekaiser, Vladimir, Karma, Caitlyn, and Ryze. Both teams have access to the most overpowered champions, so they cancel eachother out balance wise, and it comes down to skill anyway.
No matter how bad the balance is, if both teams have the same composition, it's perfectly balanced match wise.
This kind of gak is why Riot can continue to make a gakky, unbalanced game like LoL, and still make millions of dollars.
You keep complaining about Unbalance, give me an example.
Slarg, sorry, but your just wrong, the fact that these functions are in the game makes the point for itself. Theres a reason you see huge tournaments for DotA and not for LoL.
And your point was that if you do a mirror match it would be balanced, but that's exactly the opposite of creating good balance in a game. Balance in a game like this comes from having many options, without any single one being the end all choice that will win anyway, not from making everything exactly the same.
corpsesarefun wrote:LoL is more fun than DotA IMO but I agree with soladrin, LoL is really imbalanced because of the flavour and new champions.
I wouldn't say it's that imbalanced people just need to understand the weaknesses and strengths of the champions and have a good understanding about which items, runes and masteries go well with the
champions in other words "Actually learn to play the fething game". Although I agree newer heroes almost always start out a little OP, but usually after a week or two they're pretty balanced up from patches.
corpsesarefun wrote:LoL is more fun than DotA IMO but I agree with soladrin, LoL is really imbalanced because of the flavour and new champions.
I wouldn't say it's that imbalanced people just need to understand the weaknesses and strengths of the champions and have a good understanding about which items, runes and masteries go well with the
champions in other words "Actually learn to play the fething game". Although I agree newer heroes almost always start out a little OP, but usually after a week or two they're pretty balanced up from patches.
You couldn't be more wrong, but its clear that I can't convince you.
Making it so EVERYONE can have a free blink-dagger at the start is beyond slowed, and is the exact opposite of balanced.
"Its balanced because everyone can have it" is wrong, that's the exact opposite of balance.
Balance is when there are multiple counters to things, not just 1 or you're fethed. That's something Dota has, and its the reason they can make unique characters and not the same rehashed piece of trash that is the average new champion in LoL.
This "Tanky-DPS" archetype LoL uses is another one of the major imbalances. Nobody should be able to do equivalent or slightly less damage, and be almost as durable as a full tank in a balanced game. Its one or the other, but not both.
Slarg232 wrote:There is no game where said balance occures, however.
The game that comes very close is called Dota, the game that LoL is copied off of, and you can bet your ass it will only improve now that it has ValvE's pockets behind it.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/11/24 22:34:00
A game is not balanced if you have to use a specific build to win and that build will defeat "lesser" builds 90% of the time, in a balenced game a skilled player should be able to pick up any champion and defeat any other champion.
corpsesarefun wrote:A game is not balanced if you have to use a specific build to win and that build will defeat "lesser" builds 90% of the time, in a balenced game a skilled player should be able to pick up any champion and defeat any other champion.
I don't think you understand how the champions work in LoL, tanks for example will rarely ever defeat there enemies one on one but instead use crowd control abilities to make it easier for mages and DPS's to
do damage to them. Many champions aren't even designed for killing but rely on assists, pushing, healing, silences, etc so yeah not every champions can defeat there opponents but then again some aren't
meant to they are just there to help make the fights easier for there allies. About lesser builds well you could say that about Dota as well.
750 points
1000 Points
And if you're drinkin' well, you know that you're my friend and I say "I think I'll have myself a beer" 
