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From Greek news articly, November 27:

"War on a table

A plunge into the dark, bizarre and militaristic world of the game that combines modeling and strategy, and holds as "prisoners" thousands of players in Greece and all over the World.

"Blood for the Blood God, Skulls for the Skull Throne". This is the motto and war-cry of the servants of the God of Chaos, Khorne (The Antipope: she translates if phonetically to Greek as "Horn"...). If you think that this sentence was "strange" enough as a magazine's article opening line, wait and see what's to come. This started as a report for one of the most popular miniature tabletop games of the last 30 years and I still don't know how I ended up fighting against "Daemons of Chaos" in 40000 AD and hang out with creatures with names such as Necrons, Dark Eldar, Black Angels (not sure what army that is...)and much more like them...undead and badass.

(Caption under my picture): Dedication. Studying the rules needs time, building requires effort, the creation of a decent army...money- up to 500 euros for the starter "set". During the game all this is forgotten though.

(Caption under next picture): Precise calculations. Before any move the player must contemplate on it's consequences. "Somehow like chess..." like they told us, but much bloodier.

Dozens of horrible creatures, together with an Emperor-God (of the earthlings) and four Gods of Chaos, live in the blackest, obscurantist, religionist, militaristic, fundamentalist, authoritarian, racist, abominable and repulsive world ever conceived by the human mind. In fact, by the British mind, since the game was coined and released in England at the beginning of the eighties.

The game, that for the last 30 years has been played by millions of people all over the world, is called "Warhammer:40000 or "40K" for it's friends. With many of these friends (Greeks) we talked about the multifarious 40K and it's exceptional miniatures, modeling, hobby, required intelligence, strategic ability, men (that play), women (that don't) and daemons that eat souls (soul-eating is the pop corn of the future).

In the same future that, as the general motto of the game states, "There is no time for peace. Neither for forgiveness. There is only war. Endless War."

Little "toy soldiers" for men? And beyond...

As an intro into the world of this "joyful" game, we watched ,during a tournament, around forty males (between 18 and 39 years old), with tape measures and dice on hand, planning assaults against the military units that were placed on top of special dioramas (model battlefields with obstacles, buildings, trees etc.). 40K is a game of strategy (or tactics rather) and requires thought, a lot time studying the rules and a certain degree of intelligence of the mathematically skilled type. The toy soldier miniatures-designed with a lot of imagination and incredible details by the company of Games Workshop-have to be assembled and painted by the hobbyists-players. Painting the "armies" is a form of art on it's own accord, to which modelers dedicated hours or even days. Considering all this, when questioned "why do you play" everybody gave the same answer:" Because it's a hobby that gives me the opportunity to do miniature modeling, to think strategically and, mainly, get together with friends at least twice a week, for gaming, talking, painting...". That's great!

At this point it could be the end of this discussion, if there wasn't for the fluff to be considered, i.e. if there was no ideological-mythical environment of 40K. The world "fluff" ,that is the creation of tabletop or non tabletop role playing gamers and it has to do with everything else but the rule set of the game, is the key to open the...darkness of 40K. Because the fictions, facts and characteristics of the bloodthirsty and soul-hungering soldiers are so outrageous that the question "but, why do you want to play?" was coming back to our conversation almost automatically.

To think or not to think?

What does someone need furthermost in order to be able to play 40K? "Brains", most of them think, claiming at the same time that "nobody takes fluff seriously" but also..."I chose the game based on the fluff" or "real life is a different thing to the game" but also..."I have seen in the US the ideology of the army and the player matching to a dangerous degree. I've even seen a player with swastikas tattooed all over his body". So many contradictions they could win a Guinness world record.

Generally speaking, when having to choose the game, but also the army, fluff is always there to play a role. As a 38 old professor of biotechnology told us "I also chose an army based on the fluff - I play with dark eldar..."(he stops to think)"in the end they are psychic vampires..." (pausing and saying out very loud)... "I don't even care about my army's fluff!". Perhaps a mind with mathematical skills is necessary but it also seems necessary that the same mind needs the ability not to be able to...think!

The first thing we found out about the 40 participants of the tournament, is that most of them is what we would call "educated" (higher degree level) and working (you need a lot of money to be able to play 40K seriously for many years). Amongst them we found a manager of marketing in a multinational company, a university professor, a gold smith, a 23 year old business man, many civil engineers and many students (chemists, engineers, mathematicians).

Most of them started off as fans of science or heroic fiction, mythology, history and comic books. Many of them have read the low literary value novels based on the game's fluff, for which 30 year old Thanos said: "If I had a child, I wouldn't let him read these novels before he develops his character". We can summarize the profile of the average 40K player as follows: a rather "introvert", lonely guy that doesn't like to go out, doesn't like to watch the TV or football(!), but he likes listening to music (foreign, and mainly classic rock) and he prefers when going out to talk with friends in cafes or houses. Many of them claimed that they "believe in God", whom they defined as the "beginning" of everything or "the power" of the universe etc. but they don't like his "fan club". Couple of them claimed to be pronounced atheists.

Lastly, we found out that all of them are ready to talk about politics, expressing extreme ideas more or less with words that are somewhat muddled inside their heads. We only found one person who deals with the understanding of human relationships, while most of the other are ignorant even of the word "psychology".

Heil, Emperor?

A large percentage of their population compared with their average number (5 out of the 15 interviewees) had some racist and xenophobic ideas and had been involved with the study of Nazi texts, including "Mein Kampf" by Adolf Hitler. George, a mulatto (from a Greek father and a mother from impoverished Louisiana), one of the most intelligent and sincere kids we met, following the question if the game is "a bit" racist he replied: "It's very racist and in America (US) many gamers identify themselves with that racism. Moreover, Black Templars, that have the Iron Cross as a sign and their colours are black, white and red, are clearly Nazis"

"Have you noticed that a percentage of the players belong to the extreme right wing?" we asked 35 year old Takis, a middle school teacher who claims to be "left wing". "Yes, but I don't know why. Maybe they are fascinated by the epic, heroic or even the racist elements of 40K. Because there is a lot of racism in the game." The next question that came up naturally is if 40K makes you feel superior compared to other people :"Yes, it's a bit elitist. It requires a lot of thought so it makes you feel..."somehow". Somehow superior" said Markos laughing. One of the most extreme statements we heard was :"It's been proved throughout the history of Greece that we can only go forward with a fascist government" said John. "And I am going to be the one executing them", added his friend Fotis.

Playing with your soul?

I would also add, playing with your sword. But why would someone fight with a sword in the technologically super advanced 40000 AD? And why does it's system has to be so authoritarian and obscurantist? And why does the "trophy" have to be the most valuable thing humans have, i.e. their souls?

"Because 40K combines elements that fascinate men, like chivalry, heroism, power, ability, speed etc" said 38 year old widely educated Kostas with his well structured speech. "Probably because we want to look better in comparison. Maybe I would never go to real war, but in the game you can be an awesome hero or a general without having to pay the price in return. For it's system now, the wider the network of planets that human inhabit becomes, the more we will keep losing our humanity. In the minds of the creators of science fiction, there is always a strong central authority necessary, which through cutting down our freedoms and though fear can create a structure in order for that new world to function. In 40K there is a mixture of western imperialism and eastern fundamentalism."

And why does the future has to seem so bleak I wonder: "Because", as 39 year old Giannis is saying "this sells. This game has the best marketing." "Furthermore because reality sucks and progress is even worse" adds the younger Minas. "Everything in the fluff is derived from human history, to an excessive extend maybe, but historically".

Why aren't women playing the game, I ask them: "Now you are delving into a touchy subject", Fotis told me, who is married and has one child. "Women don't go for mentally committing stuff. In order to be able to commit in something so that you can disengage from the everyday life, you have to be a man." Fotis was the same person who told me when I asked him why the ideology of the game is crazy: "Are there any ideological obstacles in fantasy?".

Epilogue

In the interview we did with 23 year old Markos, who describes the game as a "struggle for the survival of the human race" and as the "absolute decline", after he told us that "Warhammer is not a comedy but a tragedy with the classical sense, in a dystopian future" he also express the optimistic thought that "Man has the awesome capacity to conquer everything, even himself." When I asked what does he do to ...conquer himself he answered :"I am reading thousands of books, I am writing down stories and poetry, I work, talk, travel and do thousands of different things. Why? Because I have an enormous stress that I will stay mediocre""

You can see entire news in this post:

http://cadia122.blogspot.com/2011/11/bad-journalism.html

I mean, just because I like 40k I am racist, nationalist, stupid, strange...
This is not right, no reportes has right to insult peopel on this level...

Who can afford Warhammer in Greece?

But that's not the point...

uhh....yeah this is a terrible assumption but its also the opinion of a RANDOM GREEK REPORTER THAT IK FOR SURE I WILL NEVER MEET. As strong as this is and offensive in parts, he is entitled to his own opinion based on the experience he had. We are never going to meet this man, and considering at least for me an American, I couldn't give two ****s about what he thinks of a game I enjoy. I like it. If he doesn't, oh well. Not going to take it to heart. A lot of people generate their own opinions based on site. Its how we function. Even in his interview, its his perspective in life and took his reaction and put it on paper. IDK the laws in Greece in terms of public speech, but obviously if he did it, then it was legal. Nothing we can really do, even if he is discriminating against the people who PLAY A GAME.

I personally think the racism thing is rediculous. I'm sure there are racists that like to play football therefore according to the article football is for racists. I have never encounterd a racist person in all my playing so I think this is a bigger comment on greek society more than anything else. Also the random quote from the guy who says the game is more racist in the US is rediculous. I think Europeans generally as a whole hae an image of the US as a very racist place and little racism in Europe when in fact the opposite is true. I have encountered more blatant anti-sematism and racism in the about 8 weeks I have spent in Europe then I have my whole life living in the US (long streches of which being in Texas and Georgia).

I showed this to my father. This reporter found something to rip on. He wanted to be heard. It was his oppurtunity. He is throwing random assumptions based on color scheme random quotes from the game. He can be as offended as he wants to be, he can't prove any of his claims correct.

@Brother Coa
I feel you man, nobody should be saying things like that, but he isn't doing anything illegal. He isn't making anybody do something illegal, he isn't threatening someone, nor is he selecting out individuals. He can say as much as he wants, but he isn't going to change peoples opinions because of his article. Honestly, who is going to believe that because somebody spends money and time to play a miniature wargame for fun is a racist nationialistic person. Yeah there are strange or weird people who play, and IMO everybody can be weird or strange in their own fashion, and anything unheard of to people is considered strange or weird so can't change that much. Let him talk and don't let his judgement on a bunch of strangers affect who you are. He doesn't know, so his opinion shouldn't matter to you.

Hehehehe

She was just traumatized by the freakish brutality of the setting and went into an anti-fascist tirade because she assumed that everyone who played the game was far-right. This is what happens when you don't do your research.

Funny stuff, not entirely untrue but obviously jumping to conclusions and generalizations.

I am still laughing at this article xD how someone could come to such conclusions is beyond me, my dad said this article is like D&D all over again just instead of Satanists its racists and nationalists

I thought the most interesting part of the article was how they perceive Americans to be, lol.

Yeah xD more than half of my family is from Texas/Alabama and they aren't even as bad as this article portrays, and even americans sometimes say people from the south are the most racist! Yeah my grandma might say the "n" word, but she is over 85 she lives in a comepletely different time plus shes extremly old xD so its different. Thats also the worst my family gets is the occasional word! Not even.

I think the thing the writer either forgot or didn't know is that literature is influenced by the on goings of the time in which it was written. 40k is a piece of literature; therefore it reflects the modern era. 40k also reflects human past. Antisemitism of the first half of the 20th century, and well through the rest of the century. Imperialism of countries like Iraq, Israel (to an extent), a few others. Internal strife and civil war as seen by all of Africa. It's wrong to say that 40k is racist as humans are racist and all those other qualities the author mentioned. You could look at it the other way, but its a bit harder to legitimize your argument.

Pure crap. For the life of me I cant figure out why people must make things into a political debate. Its like saying Monopoly is for tyrants or chess is for racists. It makes no sense, quit putting arbitrary human ideals on Fictional plastic pieces or pretend games.

Hate to see if he went to a Flames of War tourney.

Sukth wrote:
@Brother Coa
I feel you man, nobody should be saying things like that, but he isn't doing anything illegal. He isn't making anybody do something illegal, he isn't threatening someone, nor is he selecting out individuals. He can say as much as he wants, but he isn't going to change peoples opinions because of his article. Honestly, who is going to believe that because somebody spends money and time to play a miniature wargame for fun is a racist nationialistic person. Yeah there are strange or weird people who play, and IMO everybody can be weird or strange in their own fashion, and anything unheard of to people is considered strange or weird so can't change that much. Let him talk and don't let his judgement on a bunch of strangers affect who you are. He doesn't know, so his opinion shouldn't matter to you.

That's not the point, the point is that these newspaper read MILLIONS of people in Greece every day. In some way he widely lowered the GW and game image, it sums up that only "crazy" people play this. And that this game provoke national and racial hatred. IF you hate something that's ok, but making a news article and publicly humiliate thousands of people who play this?
The guy from that blog that showed me this article has send some mail to GW and they say that htey will see what is this all about.

Mal the Wolf wrote:
Hate to see if he went to a Flames of War tourney.

She'd say "oh! everyone who plays FoW is a neo-nazi." What would be funny would be to see her reaction to an Axis and Allies game.

That blogger doesn't have everything right either. "40K doesn't glorify war." Uh-huh

I think if she did, she would go tell the government "I know where all the former Nazi commanders are hiding!!!!"

Sukth wrote:I think if she did, she would go tell the government "I know where all the former Nazi commanders are hiding!!!!"

"...and they've found the fountain of youth."

Wow that reporter must have loads of time on her hands, bashing on a table top wargame. I wonder whats her perspective on video games?

Very true xD but yeah she would call everybody a neo-nazi and just flip a gak.

@Brother Coa
I do see your point and I do agree. He made us look terrible in the eyes of Greece. He is also setting himself up by saying that this game provokes and supports national and racial hatred and causing a lot of people to question his judgement. Anyone who actually tries his opinion in MY view will go to the website and look around and come to the conclusion that no it does none of those things its a game that has a little more "mature" content than some other games do, but its a game and thats all it is. The people who play it play it because they find an aspect of it enjoyable. He just wanted to be heard. This was his way of getting heard.

Whoa whoa whoa! Racism? In 40k? No. The humans are all a happy family. United against the evil aliens who hate you and want nothing more to kill you and eat your babies. Totally not racist.

He seems to have a jump pack, and he uses it to jump to conclusions, instead of combat.

I don't know too much about modern Greek society and culture, but from the tiny little fragments I've gathered over the years, this is unsurprising; I seem to recall the Greek government attempting to pass a bill banning all online gaming under the guise of fighting gambling (despite the fact that this would also ban MMORPGs, shooters, etc)

EDIT: I actually think I have some facts regarding some other stuff I posted wrong, so I'm removing it so I don't look like an ass. Suffice it to say it seems like the Greek mainstream/older generation of Greeks seem to be more out of touch with subcultures and young people than the older generation of Americans, which is something I thought impossible.

Does this mean we can ask for all the bail out money back now...? I'll need some of it so I can repaint my satanic shrine...

.... so?

People completely ignorant of the setting are frightened after meeting some obscure greeks? NO WAI!

I couldn't care less.

We attack at dawn .

Evidently the Greek writer does not understand the meaning of the term satire. 40k universe is a parody of western religious and imperial arrogance throughout history; indeed any human culture can suffice; but 40k selects them specifically. This is just garbage. Why do so called journalists and scholars believe that people have such a simple minded relationship to the objects and cultural items they consume? Just because you play 'violent' video games does not mean you fail to understand the rule of law and society because most human beings make the distinction between fantasy and reality. Just because you watch porn doesn't instantly mean you are a wife beater who hates women and wants hurt them for your own pleasure. Just because 40k plays on the themes of racism, imperialism and genocide DOES NOT MEAN IT ENDORSES IT! Firstly because the context is too far removed from reality to make any comparison worthwhile: in 40k there really are creatures of evil, whereas in real life even the most cruel of individuals are far more complicated and often products of well meant intentions; they certainly believe that what they do is right and argue vigorously about their own virtue right until the end. I study history, I've studied real genocides and real Imperialists; they all justified what they did as virtuous and framed their opponents as evil through the use of language. Secondly, like fox claiming Mass Effect was porn, the person's ignorance on the actual material is staggering. From a few minutes of conversation he presumes that he can offer serious social comment on why a large section of people indulge in an activity. If I were to write a book review for my history module with only reading the back print I would be laughed down as a fool and a moron; this journalist crap is beyond belief! Take one example: after the first war of Armageddon, the Imperium decided it could not risk its people discovering about the demonic incursion and was concerned about the corruption of the survivors. It condemned billions to death in work camps from the heroic survivors 'who had stood in the face of chaos and stood without fear', yet the fluff NEVER says this was a good thing. The Space Wolf (noble space vikings) chapter master goes into an uproar about condeming such brave innocents to death and the language is certainly daming of what the Imperium does. This criticises such callous behaviour toward people, 40k openly demonises such behaviour like religious fanaticism and cauvenistic Imperialism and delusions of racial superiority. How can this ignorant idiot claim anyone, any rational and sane human being would endorse the themes of what they read in 40k novels. In fact such darkness on the Imperial side is deliberately curbed, reduced or only applied to certain members in black library novels for the specific reason of distinguishing such behaviour and making us sympthise with the characters; we could not do that if they were genocidal arseholes.

Also, reading about these themes, what I have no doubt the writer would claim to be a 'macarbe fascination' with death, killings, war and genocide etc is just unfounded. He claims everyone who plays 40k is a crypto-facist. Really? Is my Armenian history lecturer who does a module on genocide in world history also perversely fetishitic for desiring to broach about the subject? Are academic writers, journalists and the like obsessive or craven for writing about these topical issues; both contemporary and historical? Of course not, this writer would exclaim, 'these are academic works that contribute to society!'. But why do you think such individuals are drawn to such themes of military history and genocide as moths to a flame? These are issues at the core of morality and that hold immense emotional power due to the sheer horror of their content. Such issues go to the heart of human morality and conscience. How can this stupid writer claim that interest in these subjects means they're fascists and sado masochists! Anyone with a brain cell in their head cannot help but be struck in awe by the scale of such lofty debates; even as they are repulsed and sickened by how depraved humans can sink yet still call themselves such. Writers enjoy their work as well, not just in history but in horror, war novels and plenty of other media. To take an obvious example, the war series THE PACIFIC was a shockingly gruesome and gory film with soldiers blown to pieces and their bodies pulped into pieces. It stressed the cruel savage hand of war, about how it twists good people into sick feths who kill POW for fun. It has the same message as 40k, it demonises even as it entertains and even as people are drawn to the violence it portrays.

If this is just another bs excuse attempt at some 'moral panic' by the same elitist dickheads who point the finger at computer games and board games whilst their nations police beat and tear gas people in the street for demanding social redress and rights then this is just pathetic. This same daily mail crap that justifies butchery in the middle east, regime change, invasions of countries for resources, turns the poor into murderers and preaches that only the state can hold the right to use violence!? Are these people honestly so deluded and blind? Are they so incapable of understanding that it is the state and the nationalist media that pumps such poison into society to make people follow their foriegn policy and blind them into fear!? Of course! Of course my toy soldiers and their back story are the cause of violence in society! It can't be anything like government making and justifying war, or sending police out to beat protestors, its not massive social inequality and joblessness that leaves poeple resenting the patronising language vomited at them every day until they cannot take the humiliation anymore. No, according to this writer, your toy soldiers and some half baked dark sci fi is the root of violence and intolerence.

Needed to be said

As a greek, that was a little depressing... As a 40k player, though, I thought it was pretty funny

Meh, it's a journalist. Journalists (save for a few rare exceptions) are either stupid, don't care about the truth or both.

xxmatt85 wrote:We attack at dawn .

No, we attack at Midnight, after the goat sacrifice! Didn't you get the memo from Bealzebub!

Jihadnik wrote:

xxmatt85 wrote:We attack at dawn .

No, we attack at Midnight, after the goat sacrifice! Didn't you get the memo from Bealzebub!

Wait, we were going to sacrifice a goat? I already chloroformed my baby nephew!

Thats ok we will just double up like good devil worshipers