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Until you sneak a str 8 weapon past it's invul save and watch all those pretty wounds go poof. It's an extremely good unit, but not overpowered.

XV8-Ownage! wrote:But what if it is deepsriked into the middle of say, tau battlesuits and fire warriors to the other.

... Okay? Tau have *plenty* of guns that will/can ID Doom. Yes, he almost always makes up more than his points. And?

Yes plenty, but maybe not after a carni killing the hammerhead and the doom killing the broadsides.

So... you got tabled by nids and are complaining that Doom is overpowered?

Doom has games where he shines like a star, and games where he wasn't worth the points or the time it took to put on the table.

Awhh did someone lose some units to doom?

It's not that hard to kill, if you have enough S8+ shooting. With tau, that mostly means fusion blasters, I believe, or Railgun suits.
However, if someone killed your skimmers with carnifexes, you did something wrong. Next time, bubblewrap your railgun suits and make sure your hammerheads don't sit next to the large angry bugs.

My point is you don't get a chance to shoot it.

Against Tau, he is great. Against my deathwing he has only ever caused a wound once.

XV8-Ownage! wrote:My point is you don't get a chance to shoot it.

... except you do. Unless he nukes all your Str 8+ weapons in one shooting phase.

Yes, if it happens to land at the same time he also makes CC contact with the rest of your line, it's bad news bears.
Nids have no way to control when it comes in, so that's not reliable.

Your opponent had a good game. It's like me saying the Str 10 guns Tau have are overpowered because I lost a Fex, my Tyrant, and all my Tyrant Guard in one shooting round.

Tau are lower leadership (8?) so his psychic power is going to take more wounds of your broadsides. Once he gets rid of your railguns, if you don't have any missile pods, your out of S8 weapons. So if anything, it sounds like your list lacks a lot of high strength weaponry, could we see your list perhaps?

Doom is good to an extent, but a 3++ save with no eternal warrior will only get you so far, to be honest main reason I would use him is as a distraction. Hopefully getting down turn two, he might take a few of the high strength shots away from other units I want to get close to the enemy or whatever.

Doom op? I disagree, he's a good unit and all, but definitely not op. If you said swarmlord is op I might be inclined to agree with you due to all the times my units were bonesabred to death.

Remember doom doesn't affect guys in transports, and guys in cover get cover saves.

Sad but true.

The doom is not that nasty. If he has not beefed up then you can even take him down with bolters. T4 and 3+ save is not that hard to wounds on.

thecapn226 wrote:Remember doom doesn't affect guys in transports, and guys in cover get cover saves.

This. The cover saves is the most important fact and a big reason why he is kind of ho hum as far as an elite choice goes (he is still good for his points, just not a no brainer overpowered option imo).

Also Tau is, imo, affected the most by mr malantai. The lower leadership means he's got a better chance at inflicting wounds, their transports have no firepoints and are a tad overpirced and I can't think of a worthwhile Tau build that isn't hinged around foot units. So a somewhat bad match up for you.

However, as a Tau player you need to improve your skills at mitigating deepstriking units. If its not Doom, it'll be daemons or some other nightmare matchup. Make sure you have some bubble wrapping kroot (ohh noes you killed 70 points in kroot, now I kill you spore and doom -- what a waste of your elite slot mr nid player) or some clever deployment options (split fire base, corner castle, wagon circule, or something).

Also at the risk of being pedantic, Spirit Leach is not a psychic power. That has been mentioned several times in the thread and I'd like to nip that in the bud. Only his blast attack Cataclysm is a psychic power.

Finally a little known fact about Doom, while he has Shadow in the Warp and is fearless -- he is not a synapse creature. So make sure your opponent is making his feed check.

XV8-Ownage! wrote:But what if it is deepsriked into the middle of say, tau battlesuits and fire warriors to the other.

you either should be spread out enough he can only effect 1 or 2 units, or clumped up enough he cant deep strike in the middle

he'll land, gobble up a few models, you back away/spread out and open fire with S8+ weapons until one wound gets through and he is dust.

dont cry about points, some armies (gasp) have certain things that are cheaper on the scale than other armies, tyranids don't get railguns, vehicles, and have instinctive behavior, they are allowed to have some advantages for some units.

He's good but not that good, nor is he over powered. I'm guessing someone has lost their favorite unit to this guy and has decided its over powered.

runmymouth wrote:Against Tau, he is great. Against my deathwing he has only ever caused a wound once.

The average 3d6 roll is 9.5, as you know your ld 10. Half the time you are loosing at least 1 wound, then 5+,4+,3+ save afterwards. Now he'll probably land between two foot slogging units in his spore, this gives him 4 attacks. You must have had more than one fight. Adding this up I feel you are very lucky not to lose someone.

Someone should mention the FAQ where vehicles muck him up. He now is pretty useless apart against foot slogging armies like orks, 'crons and that somethingwing army that has termies in it.

The average 3d6 roll is 9.5, as you know your ld 10. Half the time you are loosing at least 1 wound, then 5+,4+,3+ save afterwards. Now he'll probably land between two foot slogging units in his spore, this gives him 4 attacks. You must have had more than one fight. Adding this up I feel you are very lucky not to lose someone.

Stormshields are wonderful. Unfortunately for battlesuit heavy tau, their suits can get beat on by it pretty good. Time to reserve your suits (Give broadsides stab systems.) and stuff your FWs in a devilfish. Then, after he lands, hop some FWs out to rapid fire him. Do you put out enough shots to take down the equivalent of 4 tactical marines? Congratulations, you have killed doom.

In my case, everything is in metal bawkses to begin with. Doom lands in his pod. Looks around, spirit leeches cold unyielding unobtanium armor. Gets ran over by a land raider busy shrieking something about Sparta from the loudspeakers, which then drops the boarding ramp on his flattened corpse, and the terminators/purifiers then all get together on the boarding ramp and jump up and down, also screaming something about Sparta.

There are many things in this game that are annoying, but very few actually overpowered. Doom falls into the first category, not the second.

Yea, simply cant say, ID him enough. I mean, you cant REALLY call something OP if you can cause ID as easily as you can on him. A couple str8+ hits and he WILL fail that save, and you only need him to fail once. Cmon man, suck your bottom lip back up, and go at that nid player again. Next time prepare for it a little better

The other thing to factor in is how is he getting close enough to hit so much of your army. Tau pretty much win games by creating endless bubblewrap and keeping things away from their damage dealers. Assuming your Broadsides are hugging the board edge and the Crisis Suits are slightly in front of them, Kroot, Piranhas and Devilfish should easily be able to physically block off a large chunk of the board so he can't Deep Strike there. If you can force him to drop out in front or off to the side of your army you can limit both the number of units he can effect and the damage to units you actually care about.

The Doom is an absolute beatings against armies that lack the high power weaponry to take him down; Necrons, Tyranids, Orks, etc.

However, against other armies, he's little more than a cute distraction.

All in all, I think he's great fun, and absolutely *not* OP

I've had a lot of issues with the Doom as an Ork player, though a large part of that was that I was treating the threat incorrectly. Since I rarely field tankbustas, the only way I can get that ID hit in is with my rokkit kans and my PK's. Rokkit kans rarely have an effect in that 3+ save, and getting a unit of boyz stuck in has never ended well. I take it down, but only eventually, and by then it's served as a tremendous distraction. That said, rolling against leadership 10, and having the KFF save, does mitigate the damage to a large degree. The damage is mostly done in how the doom manipulates the flow of my army's momentum.

If I know I'm facing a nid player, I toss in a full tankbustas squad. Generally gets the job done

As for it being over powered... hard to say. I certainly think it can get a lot of bang for its buck, particularly against certain armies, but at the same time I can see how it can be utterly ineffective against other army archetypes. But at the same time I've had people complain that some of my Ork stuff was unfairly over powered in regards to cost, and they don't do nearly as much potential havoc as the doom

MFletch wrote:

runmymouth wrote:Against Tau, he is great. Against my deathwing he has only ever caused a wound once.

The average 3d6 roll is 9.5, as you know your ld 10. Half the time you are loosing at least 1 wound, then 5+,4+,3+ save afterwards. Now he'll probably land between two foot slogging units in his spore, this gives him 4 attacks. You must have had more than one fight. Adding this up I feel you are very lucky not to lose someone.

Someone should mention the FAQ where vehicles muck him up. He now is pretty useless apart against foot slogging armies like orks, 'crons and that somethingwing army that has termies in it.

the average on 3d6 is 10.5 not 9.5

odorofdeath wrote:The Doom is an absolute beatings against armies that lack the high power weaponry to take him down; Necrons, Tyranids, Orks, etc.

However, against other armies, he's little more than a cute distraction.

All in all, I think he's great fun, and absolutely *not* OP

Orks? I have a str8 (9 on charge) PKs all OVER my army, and depending on what build I made, upto a gak TON of rokkits. Sooooohow exactly do Orks lack that STR8 to ID the Doom? The only thing I suffer from, is it can soul suck alot of boyz before biting the dust

ork boyz will rip the doom apart in CC. Str4 on the charge, Str3 without...

The Doom dies to volume of damage as well as Str8+

I do hate the Doom of Malan'tai. Being an Eldar player for many reasons - fluff being number 1 since it is supposed to be from a dead Eldar craftworld. However, I do not think it is overpowered. Like any army we all have cool units, but if dealt with properly it will fall. I have had it ruin my day and game, but hey it just means that it worked to the tactics in the Tyranid player. If you want to pick on an army, pick on the Grey knights, talk about a lot of good cheese. The nids have a lot of disadvantages. They are a difficult army to play.. This is just MO, however I do not play Nids myself, so I do not think I am biased towards them.

If I can get close enough to hit something with a Meltagun, it sure as hell ain't OP.

He hurts one army and its op.. well by god flamers must be op vs hordes..