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Hopefully this belongs here rather than general, but that being said, a friend of mine is really interested in getting into 40k, but wants to play a Walker spam list. His original idea was either a 6 dread SM army, or a Dual Prince, 3 Dread, 3 Def Chaos list. My question is, who does is better? Is there any other army that should be considered (Nidzilla for example)? Also, since I'm only familiar with the CSM idea, what would one of those other lists look like around 1750?

Salamanders!

HQs
Vulkan He'Stan
Master of the Forge
...points = 290

Troops
10-Man Tactical Squad + Flamer + MM + Rhino
10-Man Tactical Squad + Flamer + MM + Rhino
10-Man Tactical Squad + Flamer + MM + Rhino
...points = 615

Elites
Dreadnought + MM + HF
Dreadnought + MM + HF
Dreadnought + MM + HF
...points = 345

Heavy support
Dreadnought + MM + HF
Dreadnought + MM + HF
Dreadnought + MM + HF
...points = 345

...points = 1595, with room to play around in.

I would've ran a list like this as my second army, but I got a great deal on SW instead, so the Salamanders were not to be...

EDIT: Spelling. Always with the spelling.

I've played with a person who ran a dreadnought list before, and it was all right, I suppose. They all podded in (or at least some of them did), so you had to basically kill everything right away before a crapton of dreds got into close combat.

Certainly CSM can do as well. 2x demon princes and a greater summoned demon, and that's before the vehicles as you note.

Otherwise, yeah, nidzilla. If anything, that's probably the best, because they have a MC that can poop out scoring units.

Blood angels.
3 dreads as elite, 3 as heavy support, and up to 5 as troops (along with a 25 man death company).
Sure, you don't have any scoring units, but who cares, you've got 11 dreadnoughts.

Realistically, 3 as elites, 3 as heavy, 3 as troops, + death company, and 2x10 man troops who do score; which can combat squad into 4 scoring units.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:Blood angels.
3 dreads as elite, 3 as heavy support, and up to 5 as troops (along with a 25 man death company).
Sure, you don't have any scoring units, but who cares, you've got 11 dreadnoughts.

Realistically, 3 as elites, 3 as heavy, 3 as troops, + death company, and 2x10 man troops who do score; which can combat squad into 4 scoring units.

-Matt

Isn't that going to kick the points up to well over 2000?

Orks can bring a lot of walkers to the table.

azazel the cat wrote:

HawaiiMatt wrote:Blood angels.
3 dreads as elite, 3 as heavy support, and up to 5 as troops (along with a 25 man death company).
Sure, you don't have any scoring units, but who cares, you've got 11 dreadnoughts.

Realistically, 3 as elites, 3 as heavy, 3 as troops, + death company, and 2x10 man troops who do score; which can combat squad into 4 scoring units.

-Matt

Isn't that going to kick the points up to well over 2000?

1125 points of dreadnoughts, 470 for the infantry (15 death company, +20 scouts), 100 points for HQ. 1695.
Leftover points could pick up cloaks for the scouts (or upgrade them to assault marines with razorbacks), and give the death company and the sarg's some gear.
It's a lot cheaper than people think, and 5 close combat dreadnoughts will rain on your parade.

-Matt

Huh. I thought that a 25-man DC would have cost much more than that. Go figure.

Necrons you can bring 3 ctan int the elite section and up to 9 spyders from the heavy section. Thats a minimum of 450pts for the spyders and around 200pts for each ctan ( you have to purchase at least 2 powers for them and pts varies. So 11 monstrous creatures for a little over a 1000pts.

I'm gonna have to vote blood angels as well.

Furiosos with blood talons are SO GOOD, and lets face it... dreadnoughts look cooler than most other models in 40k.

Horst wrote:I'm gonna have to vote blood angels as well.

Furiosos with blood talons are SO GOOD, and lets face it... dreadnoughts look cooler than most other models in 40k.

I agree on the aesthetics, but I'm not such a fan of the BA dreadnought list. There's just something about having 11 dreadnoughts with rage that doesn't sit well with me. One jetbike can just lead 1100+ points of Dreadnoughts around in circles.

Which, unless I am mistaken, is also an unofficial "instant win" condition when paired up with a boombox playing Yakety Sax.

Well he said his friends original idea is for a 6 dread list, not to just cram as many dreadnoughts in as possible.

I'd personally go for something like this at 1850 pts -

HQ - Librarian in power armor (Shield, Fear) - 100 pts

Elite - Furioso Dreadnought (BloodTalons) in drop pod - 160 pts
Elite - Furioso Dreadnought (BloodTalons) in drop pod - 160 pts
Elite - Furioso Dreadnought (Bloodfists+magna grapple) in drop pod - 175 pts

Troops - 5 man assault squad (meltagun) in a razorback (Assault Cannons) - 165 pts
Troops - 5 man assault squad (meltagun) in a razorback (Assault Cannons) - 165 pts
Troops - 5 man assault squad (meltagun) in a razorback (Las/Plas) - 165 pts
Troops - 5 man assault squad (meltagun) in a razorback (Las/Plas) - 165 pts

Fast- Baal Predator (2x HB+TLAC) - 145 pts
Fast- Baal Predator (2x HB+TLAC) - 145 pts

Heavy - Dreadnought w/ Assault Cannon in Drop Pod - 150 pts
Heavy - Dreadnought w/ Assault Cannon in Drop Pod - 150 pts

Total cost = 1845 pts.



Turn 1, your looking at 3 dreads and 2 baals being on your doorstep, with heavy fire support from razorbacks, and the threat of 2 more dreads with assault cannons dropping in somewhere to cut you down.

Only 5 dreads, but you also get 5 drop pods and 6 tanks to build! thats a lot of armor.

Even though you're right at the opponent's doorstep from the start, I'd swap the ACs on the two Razorbacks for Lascannons, just to give you some more long-range anti-tank support.

And if you can figure out a sway to squeeze Mephiston into this list, do it. He is a nightmare, and will prevent armies with a heavy anti-tank element from ruining your day, as he is a major threat himself, and will soak up a lot of fire, therefore keeping your transports safe.

azazel the cat wrote:Salamanders!

HQs
Vulkan He'Stan
Master of the Forge
...points = 290

Troops
10-Man Tactical Squad + Flamer + MM + Rhino
10-Man Tactical Squad + Flamer + MM + Rhino
10-Man Tactical Squad + Flamer + MM + Rhino
...points = 615

Elites
Dreadnought + MM + HF
Dreadnought + MM + HF
Dreadnought + MM + HF
...points = 345

Heavy support
Dreadnought + MM + HF
Dreadnought + MM + HF
Dreadnought + MM + HF
...points = 345

...points = 1595, with room to play around in.

one thing- Avatar of Khaine

Immune to melta and flame weapons.

aaaalllllright

Hey, even the Death Star had that exhaust vent.

No one suggested a GK Walker list? I thought Psyflemen dreadnaughts were the BEST THING EVAR.

BA requires trying to get into cc to use most of their dreads. It just doesn't fit nicely with me.

SM or Gk would get my vote.

I would do vanilla marines 6 dreads but with either bikes or razorbacks as they both work better than the rhinos suggested above.

Eh psyfleman are good for gk cause they lack a lot of long range.. doesnt make them better then a furioso who eats squads in cc for breakfast. That master of the forge vanilla list with ironclads etc is also pretty good. My vote is Vanilla or BA.

I've always had good luck drop podding my Ironclad. I think I've taken 5 dreads at a time, and did pretty well with them, but with dreads it's not so much how many you have, but where they are and what they're armed with.

An Ironclad slogging all the way across the board is not ideal. But one dropping into the enemies lines is.

Barring that, I like giving my dreads long-ranged weapons and heavy flamers... TL LC's or AC's for the advance, and the HF to clear out numbers on the charge. The storm bolter never did me much good.

And really AV 12 is not all that great... but using screening and cover to shield the dreads can mitigate that somewhat.

What you need to remember, is some armies can take walkers/MC's in squadrons, like Orks, IG, nids, etc, so for one FOC slot, you get 3 walkers... which can really bring the pain, although the squadron rules for vehicles blow.

Orks can do

HQ
KFF Mek
Kff Mek
Troops
Deaf Dread
Deaf Dread
Heavy
3 Kans
3 Kans
3 Kans

Not much else can spam more than 11 walkers really and still be competitive. Add boys and lootas and you are set. Plus the kans models are one of the best kits available IMO.

skycapt44 wrote:Orks can do

HQ
KFF Mek
Kff Mek
Troops
Deaf Dread
Deaf Dread
Heavy
3 Kans
3 Kans
3 Kans

Not much else can spam more than 11 walkers really and still be competitive. Add boys and lootas and you are set. Plus the kans models are one of the best kits available IMO.

Indeed, Orks would be my go to race if I want to field a lot of walkers.

Well, IG could spam 12 walkers and still have tons of points left over for other stuff. It would be possible to take 2 sentinels for less than 500 pts. Thus they could have more than 11 walkers and still be competitive given how much other stuff they could bring in addition to the walkers.

NWansbutter wrote:Well, IG could spam 12 walkers and still have tons of points left over for other stuff. It would be possible to take 2 sentinels for less than 500 pts.

Sentinels and Armored Sentinels are 1-3, making 9 the maximum.

Jihallah wrote:one thing- Avatar of Khaine

Immune to melta and flame weapons.

aaaalllllright

LOL!

I'd love to see the look on your opponent's face.

DarknessEternal wrote:Sentinels and Armored Sentinels are 1-3, making 9 the maximum.

And even then, a sentinel hardly compares with a trygon or a blood talon dread or really any other monstrous creature. Are there any walkers worse than guard walkers?

azazel the cat wrote:Salamanders!

HQs
Vulkan He'Stan
Master of the Forge
...points = 290

Troops
10-Man Tactical Squad + Flamer + MM + Rhino
10-Man Tactical Squad + Flamer + MM + Rhino
10-Man Tactical Squad + Flamer + MM + Rhino
...points = 615

Elites
Dreadnought + MM + HF
Dreadnought + MM + HF
Dreadnought + MM + HF
...points = 345

Heavy support
Dreadnought + MM + HF
Dreadnought + MM + HF
Dreadnought + MM + HF
...points = 345

...points = 1595, with room to play around in.

I would've ran a list like this as my second army, but I got a great deal on SW instead, so the Salamanders were not to be...

EDIT: Spelling. Always with the spelling.

I'd use those extra points to mkae the Heavy Support dreads riflemen dreds, and give the elite dreads drop pods. Also marines are the way todothis and blood angle lists that spam walkers are a lot of fun and competative because many opponents don't know how to deal with them

Ailaros wrote:
And even then, a sentinel hardly compares with a trygon or a blood talon dread or really any other monstrous creature. Are there any walkers worse than guard walkers?

Eldar War Walkers are worse than Armored Sentinels. AV 10 in a squadron is just suicidal. AV 12 Sentinels hidden in a sea of more AV 12+ is unlikely to ever be shot at.

When I ran Salamanders one of my favorite lists included:

Vulkan
MotF

Elites
Ironclad MG/HF Launchers Pod
Venerable MM/HF Pod

Heavys
3x Dreads with MM/HF Pods

I filled the rest out with assorted SM nonsense.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Ailaros wrote:
And even then, a sentinel hardly compares with a trygon or a blood talon dread or really any other monstrous creature. Are there any walkers worse than guard walkers?

Eldar War Walkers are worse than Armored Sentinels. AV 10 in a squadron is just suicidal. AV 12 Sentinels hidden in a sea of more AV 12+ is unlikely to ever be shot at.

Armored sentinels are SO terrible, though. Look at how much firepower you get per point and then compare it to a war walker. The AV12 doesn't even come close to covering the gap.

Dead has no firepower.

I'm sure we can meet in the middle and agree neither are terribly good.

Well, I'm scared to death of fortuned warwalkers, while I laugh at sentinels and have nob rip their legs off. Especially annoying if your opponent has those jumping warwalkers from forgeworld with BS4 that fit into a troops slot.

As for forgeworld, an ork dreadmob is able to fit 35 walkers in one army, at 3600 points though.