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Now, I am NOT an IG player(necrons actually), however one of my main opponents IS, after observing him versing my friend who runs BT and DESTROYING him everytime and now having been crushed by him today, I would just like some confirmation against his more devasting strategies.
Can 5 troops fire their special weapons from a chimera as though they never moved, even if the chimera moved 12"?
Does crew shaken or stunned affect these troops from firing?
Can a vendetta fire at its base wtih rockets?(I had scarabs attacking it but he fired at it anyway)
Does a Leman Russ really have str 10 ap2 weapons? (main battle cannon or plasma cannon sponsons?)

Please note I do not have the IG codex, so I could be wrong based on IG special rules. All page references are from the BGB.

Exalted Pariah wrote:Can 5 troops fire their special weapons from a chimera as though they never moved, even if the chimera moved 12"?

No, as embarked models cannot fire if the vehicle moved cruising speed (pg 66)

Does crew shaken or stunned affect these troops from firing?

Yes (Pg 67)

Can a vendetta fire at its base wtih rockets?(I had scarabs attacking it but he fired at it anyway)

Only if the weapon can draw LOS on it (which I highly doubt) (pg 58)

Does a Leman Russ really have str 10 ap2 weapons? (main battle cannon or plasma cannon sponsons?)

Unknown.

+1 to everything Happy posted, with the addition that the demolisher variant of the leman russ has the S10 AP2 gun, but it only has a 24" range.

The leman russ demolisher siege cannon is a 24" range str 10 ap 2 large blast ordnance. the battle cannon is 72" range str 8 ap 3 large blast ordnance. The weapons are on the wing of the valkyrie and vendetta so yeh. as the blast is not hitting the vehicle is just has a base so it can stay up.

Well if the special weapons are assault (like melta) then I think so. Ill be honest I dont have much experience with this.

I would assume crew shaken/stunned hinders this

I think only if I can draw LOS like HappyJew said

As far as STR10 AP 2, only the Leman Russ demolisher can fire a weapon like that (which is only a 24in range) The Battle Cannon on the Normal Leman Russ is Str 8 AP 3 and the Plasma sponson are str 7 Ap 2.

Exalted Pariah wrote:Now, I am NOT an IG player(necrons actually), however one of my main opponents IS, after observing him versing my friend who runs BT and DESTROYING him everytime and now having been crushed by him today, I would just like some confirmation against his more devasting strategies.
Can 5 troops fire their special weapons from a chimera as though they never moved, even if the chimera moved 12"?
Does crew shaken or stunned affect these troops from firing?
Can a vendetta fire at its base wtih rockets?(I had scarabs attacking it but he fired at it anyway)
Does a Leman Russ really have str 10 ap2 weapons? (main battle cannon or plasma cannon sponsons?)

You can only shoot out of a vehicle if it moves Combat Speed (up to 6").

Shaken or Stunned both prevent guys inside from shooting. Although if they disembark they're allowed to shoot.

Guns on a vehicle are assumed to have a 45 degree up and down traverse, per the rulebook, unless they actually have more based on the model itself. So no, Vendettas and Valkyries can't point their guns straight down, unless the model is actually mounted on the base pointed at like a 45 degree nose to the ground. Which you'd have to alter the base to do, and would constitute modeling for advantage.

A Leman Russ Demolisher has a 24" S10 AP2 large ordnance blast for the turret cannon. With plasma cannon sponsons and a hull lascannon it costs ~220pts, IIRC.

THANK YOU all so much! The leman Russ part wouldnt have saved me since the plasma sponsons are in fact Ap 2, however the rocket pods on the vendetta, crew shaken/stunned affecting passengers and firing 4 24" plasma guns from a chimera that moved 10" would not have won me the game but would have made it MUCH closer, I knew the guard were a "templates everywhere!" army but something just didnt seem right about alot of stuff, once again thank you guys!

As a note, if the vehicle moves at all, the passengers count as moving when they shoot. So only if the Chimera stands still and isn't shaken or stunned can the guys inside shoot 24" with plasma.

I thought so, after all, firing from a moving vehicle, no matter how little it moved, would be REALLY hard in RL, you earned your exalts today sir! ALL of you did!

As far as I know he can't fire his rockets at his own base for these reasons.... firing arc... if its low enough to get a shot off at guys in close combat then it's close enough to get hit by that blast and as far as I know you can't fire directly if your somewhat under the blast template. I'm a guard player and the codex is very confusing at times.

can you fire template if they hit your own guys too? or if the guard are fighting in CC?

No. a) you cannot target units that are involved in a CC. b) Under the template rules, it says you're required to not cover any of your own bases.

If you're using a blast or large blast, it can scatter onto your own units or into a CC, but you can't place them there.

...unless you are playing GK and using Karamazov, who can fire into his own guys

I still think Imperial Guard should have a new special character:

Colonel Edward Longshanks

Longshanks can issue up to two orders per turn.

"The dead cost nothing"
This order may only be issued to a Penal Legion or Conscripts Squad. If this order is successfully issued, this unit immediately gains Fleet, Furious Charge, and Rage for the duration of the turn.

"Yes, but we'll hit theirs as well..."
If this order is sucessfully issued, this turn the recieving unit may fire at an enemy unit that is engaged in CC. Any to hit rolls of 1 will be applied to a random friendly unit involved in the CC.

Exalted Pariah wrote:can you fire template if they hit your own guys too? or if the guard are fighting in CC?

They could scatter into your troops. Trust me, a new level of suck.

Template doesn't scatter, only blast markers.

Happyjew wrote:Template doesn't scatter, only blast markers.

My bad, i should have been more clear.

A chimera can move 12" and the guys inside can disembark and shoot, counting as moving.

Also RAW crew shaken & crew stunned only effects the guys inside IF they are inside.
word for word
Pg67 BRB
"Passengers may not shoot from the vehicle in their next shooting phase, but are otherwise unaffected."

Why would he just sit there and fire rockets at you? They are defensive weapons, and now you auto hit him at the end of his turn.

I don't like it when players ignore parts of the rules, intentional or not. (Not saying anybody here was ignoring rules just the IG guy from the OP)

Not bashing anybody here, you all had it right. People like that just upset me.

Edited to make sure everybody knew I wasn't trying to troll or something.

To portugus, the IG player in my OP is a good friend of mine, but he can be quite anal if you get on his bad side, I know that against a GK player he versed, the issue of shooting from a chimera that moved more than 6" was addressed and he said "oh, ok" when told they couldn't fire, the thing is, I've seen him play since and he either keeps forgetting that or chooses to ignore it unless called on it, he is forgetful so I'll see what he does next time to decide whether its on purpose.
The issue with the rockets was that my scarabs(after taking a beating) had assualted his vendetta and brought its AV to 11, he had it fire its rocket pods at them(which I now know he couldnt do) to defend itself and get the "blast/template double wounds against swarms" rule, I'm not quite sure what you mean by defensive weapons though and the auto hit part, please clarify

Multiple rocket pods are defensive (S4 or lower) weapons, meaning they can be used even if the Valkyrie moves 12"

During YOUR assault phase any scarab base (well, any enemy) in base with your vehicle gets to hit it.

thats what I thought, too bad scarabs are so weak that S4 can still kill them, guess I'll need more... I'm also glad he can't fire blasts that would willingly hit his own troops(vehicles too?) it never came to it, but he planned on tying my warriors and HQ up with a squad of redshirt guardsmen then hitting them with a manticore, he just assumed that sincce he's guard that its allowed

You cannot cover a frieendly unit, and vehicles are units.

Yeah sorry, looking back at my last post it seems a little inflammatory.

Yep like Nos said, you can move and shoot defensive weapons.

The auto hit thing was: (like Nos also said)
1.You run scarabs into assualt.
2.Other guy's turn he sits there and fires at you.
3.At the end of his turn if the scarabs are still in base contact you play out the assualt. And since the vehicle didn't move it's automatically hit in close combat.

I sounded a little harsh but remembering way back I played a guy like that and I just thought of it as a handicap unless it was a major major thing.

I also have a friend that forgets rules occasionally too, he was my friend so I didn't really mind too much either so long as everybody has fun.

Yeah you figure certain officers would be able to fire on his own men. Like Chenkov who marched thousands of men across a minefield to clear it out for his tanks. He can just kill off any conscript squad with the "send in the next wave" rule at the start of the player turn and have an identical one pop up next turn. I might pay his points to be able to fire on my own men.....sometimes.

auto hits with entriopic? heh heh, haha, HaHa, AHha AHAHA MUahahaha MWUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!
*ahem*
awesome.

Well in defence of your friend, I myself did something similiar.

I play IG as well and for like the 1st 10 games against my friend who plays Chaos I was winning, but every game we would find out something I was doing wrong that was in my favour. Its just inexperience and not understanding all the rules properly. And plus with IG there is so much going on, and so much unclarity, it takes awhile to get used to them.

Just remind him or show him this thread, not in an in your face, you were wrong kind of way, but a helpful kind of way. And dont forget to remind him and stick up for yourself when playing. Its good that you came to check the rules, I used to do that all the timetoo when unclear. Okay have fun and good luck next game.

thanks guys you've been very helpful, things would be easier if IG friend wasnt the only one with the 5th edition book in hard copy (BT friend has it on his ipad) I would like to buy one for myself, but with 6th edition so close I think it would be wasted money. One LAST thing, Jonesyboy, how did you keep track of everything you've fired as IG? any tips I can give him so he doesnt fire each weapon more than once?

Most non-GW game shops will have coloured "gem" tokens - get a pack of those for not many $$$, and place them next to each unit that has fired. Easy and cheap way to keep track

Guns on a vehicle are assumed to have a 45 degree up and down traverse, per the rulebook, unless they actually have more based on the model itself

I actually remember the rule as stating you have a 45 degree vertical arc, AND this applies to ALL weapons. You describe a 90 degree vertical arc (45+45), and claim some weapons have no limit on elevation, which I believe is wrong on both counts. When angles are concerned elsewhere in the rulebook a 45 degree arc is demonstrated via diagram to be 22.5 degrees to either side.

DevianID wrote:

Guns on a vehicle are assumed to have a 45 degree up and down traverse, per the rulebook, unless they actually have more based on the model itself

I actually remember the rule as stating you have a 45 degree vertical arc, AND this applies to ALL weapons. You describe a 90 degree vertical arc (45+45), and claim some weapons have no limit on elevation, which I believe is wrong on both counts. When angles are concerned elsewhere in the rulebook a 45 degree arc is demonstrated via diagram to be 22.5 degrees to either side.

The phrase 45 up and down; still means 45 total(22.5 up, 22.5 down); so mannaheim is describing a 45 degree vertical traverse.

Now as to the application of that rule to ALL weapons; this is also incorrect. Any weapon that has no vertical traverse in the mounting is indeed limited to the 45 vertical traverse, but a Dreadnought has a 360 degree vertical traverse because that is what the arms could physically rotate.

All weapon Arc of Fire rules are very simple: if the model can, or should be able to, physically move; then all such movement is the arc of fire, with a less than 1 degree arc along the mounting of the weapon(i.e. a straight line, along the mounting, down the barrel to the target); if the Mounting is such that no vertical movement would ever be possible; then the weapon has a total vertical traverse of 45 degrees(or a 45 degree arc , up and down; which is the same thing).

Page number Kel? Cause unlike normal arc, I saw nothing in vertical arc saying "unless your model can do better"