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mentally, space marines are conditioned, trained, brainwashed etc etc etc , but to what extent do spacemarines have emotions etc? i know they mostly all sound like "i art thine emperors sword, im am justice and death" but do space marines ever have a more "human" aspect to them.

Also what is the typical attitude of Space marines towards the civilians of the imperium?
Im asking this because im writing fluff for my chapters ( The Sons of Epitaph) history, they do not believe a single life should be wasted, dismissed / abandoned without cause, which is the beginning of the downfall of their chapter and its sundering, and i want to try and make it sound grimdark in every aspect

Thanks for your time

Depends on the chapter, really.

Some go out of their way to protect the civvies - others will regard them as a 'renewable resource' and not care if the collateral damage is excessive.

Space Wolves, Salamanders are good examples of the former.

Going on a limb, what about Thousand Sons? Obvious the sorcerers have emotion because they are still alive, but what about the Rubrics? Are they truly just walking sets of armor? Or souls trapped in armor that can still experience emotion?

The Rubric Marines are pretty much automatons, it says in the CSM codex that unless there is a Sorcerer around to guide them, they eventually become inert. Without orders or guidance, they are just blank.

Basic Imperial Space Marines only have emotions to help them carry their duty ( rage ), but occasionally they show some of their former Humanity ( like Space Wolves after the Inquisition killed everyone on Armageddon or Ultramarines deciding to defend populace or to left them to their fate ).

Chaos Space Marines have a LOT more emotions then their Imperial counterparts. Lust, greed, rage and many others.

Rubric Marines are all automatons now so they basically don't have emotions.

Most Space Marines are just conditioned mentally to show less empathy/emotion but they still are capable of the full spectrum of human emotion (and have shown every kind in fluff). Moreover they are more prone to things such as rage and delusions of grandeur due to the power at their fingertips.

Obviously nobody in this thread has read many of the Space Marine novels from the Black Library - particularly the Horus Heresy ones. The Space Marines in those books clearly have emotions and deep thoughts on a variety of things.

They're just really killy humans.

japheth wrote:Obviously nobody in this thread has read many of the Space Marine novels from the Black Library - particularly the Horus Heresy ones. The Space Marines in those books clearly have emotions and deep thoughts on a variety of things.

They're just really killy humans.

except they are brain washed 8 foot tall, vacum dwelling, acid spitting, inorganic eatting, sterile soldiers with a hard on for the emperor...

In all truest sense tho japeth, you are not 100% correct what you are talking about is intelligence and understanding which the marine has in spades yes, but all the imperium is conditioned socially to numb in the heart the marines are forced to be mentally torn down like a real soildier in our military might be from time to time to let go of many weaknesses in battle. Such as to cry when killing imperial citizens the inquistion has said are heretics, or to decide a planet is unsaveable my imperial standards and abandon entire worlds to threats they were not able to get to fast enough or simply just complete the mission.

Ontop of this, this is also a chemical change in the brain as well to not show as much emotion due to the face this is a fatal weakness when trying to resist the touch of chaos. Now, that being said this is under ideal indoctrination with perfected geneseeds which most marine players will tell you is nearly impossible to obtain in the grim dark needs of the Imperium these days. To my knowledge most armies that are not simple vanilla marines suffer from geneseed imperfection with i think exceptions being made for black templar and grey knights. I know for a fact Dark angels, Space wolves and Blood angels are considered "imperfect" in some way by the inquisition and are heavily watched for it.

IMO space marines are dead to most trials we as humans would deal with, witnessing murder, a crying child in a civilian warzone, ect. But i think he would still be overcome with emotions about such things like the orders of his commander or captian, if he could have saved one of his battle brothers from a bad fate, or the fate of his chapter. But I would wadger to say MOST space marines simply have lived far too long and new recurits have been far too brainwashed to care about the little things let alone have them interfer with the reasons they were created in the first place (I.E. Dealing with the worst things in the galaxy)

This quoter's post only makes me think that should 13 people be dead before him write or wrong he will be haunted for pulling the trigger... which not only isn't with the fluff of 40k but seems laughable to super soliders that no know fear regardless of even the worst circumstances with the best tech to offer.... in other words little wussy marines vs. hardened killers that might show emotion maybe every few years based on the severity of his use and orders during those engagements, Even then i couldn't imagine a superior allowing it to be present for long for others to see...

I.E. find the most hardened veteran you can and simply ask them a few questions... and then think about how a space marine must probably react. There is your answer

thanks for the responces

my basic concept was that some are slaves of the imperium, not thinking twice about orders issued and things that happen ( mass genocide e.g Iron hands destroying the heritics as it says in the space marine codex).
and that others such as The salamanders protect civilians alot more than other chapters.

is it within reason to say my chapter "The Sons of Epitaph" is alot like more like the salamanders, but the around 1/4th of the chapter ( including the chapter master) became corrupted by chaos mentally.

The basic concept is the chapter is apothecary heavy, and has strong links to the Adeptus Biologis, dedicated to the study of biology and organic anatomy.

HA HA HA HA Space marines having emotions that's like asking if Obama is a good president.

So he is then?

Mekboy_Rulk wrote:thanks for the responces

my basic concept was that some are slaves of the imperium, not thinking twice about orders issued and things that happen ( mass genocide e.g Iron hands destroying the heritics as it says in the space marine codex).
and that others such as The salamanders protect civilians alot more than other chapters.

is it within reason to say my chapter "The Sons of Epitaph" is alot like more like the salamanders, but the around 1/4th of the chapter ( including the chapter master) became corrupted by chaos mentally.

The basic concept is the chapter is apothecary heavy, and has strong links to the Adeptus Biologis, dedicated to the study of biology and organic anatomy.

I'd say yes, The best way i imagine it happening was you were an older chapter lost during a warp storm that ravaged your home world. having to fight off chaos for decades your chapter and homeworld remain intact but a shadow of their former glory. The planet is ravaged by mutants and heretics alike including some of your chapter's battle brothers who turned to maddness. But with the ability to serve the emperor once again and inviting the inquistion to help cleanse your chapter and world of it's problems would be a great way to have your origins.

being seperated for a decent amount of time means you developed away from the essclarichy (sp?) and thus adopted new customs or social ques such as honor and respect of the lesser civilian.

Commissar41.0 wrote:HA HA HA HA Space marines having emotions that's like asking if Obama is a good president.

Just some friendly advice coming your way- It's never a good idea to bring up religion or politics in a forum unless the thread is about said topic. It usually derails the topic and creates a flame war.


After my read of Fulgrim I'm going to say that Space Marines have a wide field of emotions.

Thanks for the replies

except for Commissar41.0, why post that? i dont think you should say something like that without giving an explaination into what you mean, some people may get offended, and my question is a legitimate question, its not , "do space marines have emotions?" , its " to what extent do spacemarines have emotions?" , please bear that in mind when typing/ trolling ( i assume you my be trolling, i may be wrong)

ok, so onto relevent points

"The best way i imagine it happening was you were an older chapter lost during a warp storm that ravaged your home world. having to fight off chaos for decades your chapter and homeworld remain intact but a shadow of their former glory. "

that is essentually my fluff ,
i know it sound generic, but i love zombie film / zombie horror etc, so i was going to have to chapter master turn to Chaos, crack under the whispers of hope from nurgle ( they turned to nurgle, not worship, becoming disillusioned and insane) and taking with him 1/4th of the chapter, unleashing nurgle rot/ zombie plague on the populace , perhaps the system, in an insane plan to save them from destruction.
the chapter became divided from within, having to ignore pleas of the innocent, closing its doors and sealing themselves inside the fortress leading to the damnation of the civilians.
The chief apothecary take control and becomes a stand in leader, as much of the structure of the chapter was crippled from the division, and sets about synthesising the vaccines/ delaying drugs/medicines to keep the effects of the diseases/infections slowing creeping into the monastery.

"The planet is ravaged by mutants and heretics alike including some of your chapter's battle brothers who turned to madness." im assuming some of the populace would also pray and give into to whispers from nurgle like the chapter master, and become mutant/heretics.

"But with the ability to serve the emperor once again and inviting the inquistion to help cleanse your chapter and world of it's problems would be a great way to have your origins."
that is pretty much what i had planned

"being seperated for a decent amount of time means you developed away from the essclarichy (sp?) and thus adopted new customs or social ques such as honor and respect of the lesser civilian."
That was what i had in mind, i was thinking , please tell me if this point is too far out, not possible/unreasonable, they already had strong links to be civilians of the planet, and let "refugees" into the facilities in an effort to save them, but had to turn them away suddenly and seal the doors as the disease/ zombie plague spread quickly through the densly packed crowds etc etc , and condemed millions to preserve the chapter and thoughs already inside, (basicly, the lesser of two evils, you know like on 28 weeks later when they have to start firing upon the uninfected and the infected, and in I am legend in the flashbacks, then the military where doing checks etc)


please let me know if this would be reasonable , or provide some constructive critism and suggestions etc etc etc thanks for your time

japheth wrote:Obviously nobody in this thread has read many of the Space Marine novels from the Black Library - particularly the Horus Heresy ones. The Space Marines in those books clearly have emotions and deep thoughts on a variety of things.

They're just really killy humans.

Loken says a few times how he's afraid or sad about something.

Mekboy_Rulk wrote:Thanks for the replies

except for Commissar41.0, why post that? i dont think you should say something like that without giving an explaination into what you mean, some people may get offended, and my question is a legitimate question, its not , "do space marines have emotions?" , its " to what extent do spacemarines have emotions?" , please bear that in mind when typing/ trolling ( i assume you my be trolling, i may be wrong)

ok, so onto relevent points

"The best way i imagine it happening was you were an older chapter lost during a warp storm that ravaged your home world. having to fight off chaos for decades your chapter and homeworld remain intact but a shadow of their former glory. "

that is essentually my fluff ,
i know it sound generic, but i love zombie film / zombie horror etc, so i was going to have to chapter master turn to Chaos, crack under the whispers of hope from nurgle ( they turned to nurgle, not worship, becoming disillusioned and insane) and taking with him 1/4th of the chapter, unleashing nurgle rot/ zombie plague on the populace , perhaps the system, in an insane plan to save them from destruction.
the chapter became divided from within, having to ignore pleas of the innocent, closing its doors and sealing themselves inside the fortress leading to the damnation of the civilians.
The chief apothecary take control and becomes a stand in leader, as much of the structure of the chapter was crippled from the division, and sets about synthesising the vaccines/ delaying drugs/medicines to keep the effects of the diseases/infections slowing creeping into the monastery.

"The planet is ravaged by mutants and heretics alike including some of your chapter's battle brothers who turned to madness." im assuming some of the populace would also pray and give into to whispers from nurgle like the chapter master, and become mutant/heretics.

"But with the ability to serve the emperor once again and inviting the inquistion to help cleanse your chapter and world of it's problems would be a great way to have your origins."
that is pretty much what i had planned

"being seperated for a decent amount of time means you developed away from the essclarichy (sp?) and thus adopted new customs or social ques such as honor and respect of the lesser civilian."
That was what i had in mind, i was thinking , please tell me if this point is too far out, not possible/unreasonable, they already had strong links to be civilians of the planet, and let "refugees" into the facilities in an effort to save them, but had to turn them away suddenly and seal the doors as the disease/ zombie plague spread quickly through the densly packed crowds etc etc , and condemed millions to preserve the chapter and thoughs already inside, (basicly, the lesser of two evils, you know like on 28 weeks later when they have to start firing upon the uninfected and the infected, and in I am legend in the flashbacks, then the military where doing checks etc)


please let me know if this would be reasonable , or provide some constructive critism and suggestions etc etc etc thanks for your time

all of these are completely logical, Nurgle as well as many demons operate through the corpses of the fallen in my rogue trader games a nurgle icon created a real 28 days later situation mixed with Dead Space with crazed pyschos trying to puncture viod suits while in ship wrecks and sabotage the imperial frigate they were on through an asteroid field for cover. If your chapter saw that nurgle and his plagues were using innocent civilians to infiltrate your chapter while it was trying to hold out against the warp storm then it sounds very reasonable for the marines to eventually quarantine the outside especially if an apothecary took over... medical protocols and all. If anything the marines probably needed the civilians as I imagine for a sucessful betrayal your chapter master would have needed to kill the pyschic chior which communicates with the imperium... well thator the warpstorm muffles your chapter's crys for help until it's too late and they are sealed in for those years.

either way civilians would play far too paramount of a role in maintaining the marines protection during those decades, so i would say it's justifiable to have a chapter reach a point where they are able to self maintain and see no further need to take extra risk by permitted infected into their bastion. They would weather the storm waiting for the Inquisition to give them an order an bring a exterminatus; you should consider that avenue of storyline IMO cause a chapter which had to erradicate it's own planet due to the pestilence and then find and claim a new world (with new threats) seems appropriate... all save the shadow of the chapter... the survivors that got away the chaos marines who want to take back their rightful place as rulers of your chapter... yadda yadda yadda!

The Salamanders go around doing "humanitarian" work on nocturne.

I haven't read any novels focused on them, but from what I have read, they have senses of humour.

Thank you for the replies

Big Mek Wurrzog:

"Nurgle as well as many demons operate through the corpses of the fallen"
"a nurgle icon created a real 28 days later situation mixed with Dead Space with crazed pyschos"

Yep , thats kinda what i was thinking, a majority turning into shambling zombies, plague carriers etc, heretics being more mobile but psychotic, feeding of corpses and the living.

"If your chapter saw that nurgle and his plagues were using innocent civilians to infiltrate your chapter while it was trying to hold out against the warp storm then it sounds very reasonable for the marines to eventually quarantine the outside especially if an apothecary took over... medical protocols and all."

I was thinking something similar, the chapter master is slowly being corrupted as the situation gets worse , and he is the source of the problem, he slowly shows visable signs of corruption, but this is not picked up on till its too late, he seals himself inside his personal command quarters along with his closest captains, techmarines and chapter serfs and they all pledge alligence to nurgle. meanwhile the Chief apothicary makes the decision to seal off the biological facility and save zones as the diseases / zombies are spreading quickly through the crowds etc.

the chapter attempts to weather the corruption and the storm outside on the surface, but slowly the corruption seeps through weakpoints , and after around 2-3 months they reatreat again , sealing of the outer levels.
the command structure begins to question the motives of the chaptermaster and his staff, The chief Libraian sensing something was not right, along with afew librarians and marines investigate. upon entering the chaptermasters chambers they discovery what has happened and are slain. The chaptermaster and his motley crew fight their way to the Teleportorium and shuttle silos, taking numerous shuttles and one of the three chapter battlebarges.
Upon leaving the dilluded chapter master decided that the remaining "heretics" which have not joined him must be purged, opening all the security lock downs and containment feilds.

As the corrupted marines leave, the warpstorm clears up, as they were the orginal cause of the storm, The Cheif Apothicary is the highest ranking left, as the chapalins are more spiritrual advisors than leadrrs, the chief techmarines converted to chaos and the cheif libraian was slain. The new chapter chief Apothecary master orders distress calls to be made and lock down in the very last areas of the monastary, such as the armoury, the Apothacarion, The Reclusiam ,and the The Librarium .

Necronboy:

yep , thats basicly what the chapter im creating did do , and attempts to do now

Sturmtruppen:

I thought that too, but more of a higher form of humour, not crude like say orks or typical guardsmen etc.



Spacemarines share a strong brotherhood bonds , im gussing as much as a family as they can get, as i understand it, spacemarines do not feel love, as they are not around to love etc etc , but if i remember correctly, its either in the blood ravens omnibus or the ultramarines omnibus, a Sm character tries to imagine what it would be like to have an actual family etc, please correct me if im wrong

Commissar41.0 wrote:HA HA HA HA Space marines having emotions that's like asking if Obama is a good president.

love it

There's probably a difference between how SM are trained in the 30k and 40k settings. During the crusade, there wouldn't be a need for brainwashing and conditioning since nobody thought that the marines would go evil.

They have emotions, pretty much like any other soldier. The brainwash would not work if they dont have it. They have sense of humor, fear and sadness. Otherwise, they would not be corruptible by chaos...

This is what I think of when I think of Space Marines. This video should explain them pretty well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MC2JyFdOXBc&feature=related

Alexzandvar wrote:This is what I think of when I think of Space Marines. This video should explain them pretty well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MC2JyFdOXBc&feature=related

OMG all kinds of win! I about lost it when I see a marine flying toward a planet screaming "For the Empe-!"

Agreed, though you have to understand the space marines are people I think they can laugh, cry and be racist for all I care. That being said like in realistic military these things are rare to see in a solider and i imagine even rarer to see in a brainwashed, gene therapy 8 foot tall super human... I also think the fact they live so very very long and see so many damn battles that they are pushed to a point where... pain doesn't cause them to cry, friends dying do not enrage them, and the objective always comes first.

Now tell me that in comparison to a space wolf? i'd laugh you out of this Forum, Ask me if a black templar would be willing to negotiate with a Eldar force they could clearly wipe out and I'd do the same thing. Or tell me the Blood Angles want to assess a situation before engaging then I'd pee myself with gleeful laughter at your expense.

True Space marines though? Ones who aren't held in suspicion by the inquisition or intensely Xenophobic. I would say if the word "emotions" would be how we understand them then no, a marine is no where close to that. To them they have been tempered in war longer than most have lived, they have sacrificed more than we can understand, and coped with pains few could imagine all for the stated glory of the Emperor and that of mankind. It's thankless and hard word just like we know lunch ladies have emotions but we consider them husks of human society think of it under a similar lense for our Adeptus Astartes over here... they won't have a good time like us orks

Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:

Alexzandvar wrote:This is what I think of when I think of Space Marines. This video should explain them pretty well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MC2JyFdOXBc&feature=related

OMG all kinds of win! I about lost it when I see a marine flying toward a planet screaming "For the Empe-!"

Agreed, though you have to understand the space marines are people I think they can laugh, cry and be racist for all I care. That being said like in realistic military these things are rare to see in a solider and i imagine even rarer to see in a brainwashed, gene therapy 8 foot tall super human... I also think the fact they live so very very long and see so many damn battles that they are pushed to a point where... pain doesn't cause them to cry, friends dying do not enrage them, and the objective always comes first.

Now tell me that in comparison to a space wolf? i'd laugh you out of this Forum, Ask me if a black templar would be willing to negotiate with a Eldar force they could clearly wipe out and I'd do the same thing. Or tell me the Blood Angles want to assess a situation before engaging then I'd pee myself with gleeful laughter at your expense.

True Space marines though? Ones who aren't held in suspicion by the inquisition or intensely Xenophobic. I would say if the word "emotions" would be how we understand them then no, a marine is no where close to that. To them they have been tempered in war longer than most have lived, they have sacrificed more than we can understand, and coped with pains few could imagine all for the stated glory of the Emperor and that of mankind. It's thankless and hard word just like we know lunch ladies have emotions but we consider them husks of human society think of it under a similar lense for our Adeptus Astartes over here... they won't have a good time like us orks

Thank you friend, EMPRAH be with you!

chromedog wrote:Depends on the chapter, really.

Some go out of their way to protect the civvies - others will regard them as a 'renewable resource' and not care if the collateral damage is excessive.

Space Wolves, Salamanders are good examples of the former.

This was fleshed out in "Helsreach" when Grimaldus didn't understand why the Salamanders would hold back and not take the fight to the Orks, instead hanging back and protecting the civilians. The Salamander captain corrects Grimaldus' statement "For the Emperor" by stating "For the Emperor.... and his people."

This aspect of the novel really made me dislike the Black Templars. I am now more interested in reading about the Salamanders.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:They have emotions, pretty much like any other soldier. The brainwash would not work if they dont have it. They have sense of humor, fear and sadness. Otherwise, they would not be corruptible by chaos...

That isn't correct. They do not have fear. This is clearly stated in many of the novels and in the codex and the whole "and they shall know no fear". They do not experience the emotion of fear. And if they do it's in a completely different manner from how normal humans feel it and no longer the traditional sense of 'fear'.

IronSnake wrote:This was fleshed out in "Helsreach" when Grimaldus didn't understand why the Salamanders would hold back and not take the fight to the Orks, instead hanging back and protecting the civilians. The Salamander captain corrects Grimaldus' statement "For the Emperor" by stating "For the Emperor.... and his people."

This aspect of the novel really made me dislike the Black Templars. I am now more interested in reading about the Salamanders.

In that case, I recommend you do not read "Know Thine Enemy" from Gav Thorpe - as due to this franchise missing any kind of canon policy, the subject in question does not only depend on the Chapter but also the book you are reading ... and the Salamanders in that story really appear like a bunch of donkey-caves to that poor platoon of Guardsmen.

I'd say some of them have emotions. Take for example Blood Angels. The Black Rage makes them furious and bold.

However, DA seem to have quite a lot of emotions and memories removed.

IronSnake wrote:

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:They have emotions, pretty much like any other soldier. The brainwash would not work if they dont have it. They have sense of humor, fear and sadness. Otherwise, they would not be corruptible by chaos...

That isn't correct. They do not have fear. This is clearly stated in many of the novels and in the codex and the whole "and they shall know no fear". They do not experience the emotion of fear. And if they do it's in a completely different manner from how normal humans feel it and no longer the traditional sense of 'fear'.

This is through a disciplined regiment and modification to their minds through the geneseed, but not 100% accurate again like I said they are warriors supreme but just like we normally never see a veteran display their mental state like PTSD or shell shock it doesn't mean they can't go mad with fear. Again Space Marines are people who more or less actively suppress their emotions it will take something profound to be upset or removed from the traditionally stotic nature of the Adeptus Astartes.

In this circumstance I bring into the fore-view Chaos and the Warp... fear is a powerful tool they have used for year and years since the HH to drive marines to their cause. They may quote rhetoric about knowing no fear but to me this is someone like batman who claims to have mastered his fears but then boom scarecrow shows up and suddenly his old wounds open wide and the fresh sting of terror is remembered. In otherwords they are NOT fearless to a fault like orks, nids, or other selections which become that way or simply are in normal fluff. A space marine still might run for his life fearful of meager contributions to the emperor while a Tryanid Trygon chases after him and his battle brothers.

i feel like space marines have the same range of emotions as the Jaffa form Stargate.

see joke here