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Yes its a little rant but everytime now I look through the gallery I see true scale this and that. Ill be the first to say that I love marines and almost everything about them. I just think all the true scale stuff looks silly. Yes they are big and mean looking but the weapons normally arnt scaled to the right size and look odd. Yes some do look nice and what not, but for me 40k is all about the tanks and when its all true scaled non just never look right. some people have gotten rhinos down but everything else is ehh. so there's my little rant...

I'm going to say yes... but you know, if you like your marine minis being the same size or smaller than your average guardsman mini, thats your call

True scale and pre-Heresy are really, really 2008. Some people can pull it off really well, but by and large it can be a little silly. I'm not the hugest fan of the actual style, but when it's well done I can definitely appreciate it. It leads to a lot of dudes with tiny heads that look really funny though. Nothing in this game is properly in scale, so I don't really see the need to put Marines in scale when everything else is so exaggerated.

If you can do true-scale well, go ahead. If you're like the average modeling person or even worse (like me), it's best to just model 'em normally.

I've been around this game for longer than I sometimes want to admit, but it always bothered me that the Space Marine models were too small.

That said, I think a lot of the "True Scale" models are way too big. Space Marines are supposed to be big, but in the seven to seven and a half foot range. I know some fluff has haphazardly referred to them as being eight, or even ten feet tall. I do kinda wish that the Space Marine models had been "fixed" around the same time the Rhino model was redone, to make them a little bigger, especially as the models of other lines got larger too.

So I can see how people have wanted to make more "realistic" Space Marines. And a lot of the modeling done is pretty impressive, to say the least. When I decided to scale up my Marines, I chose to use the standard power armor models as much as possible and instead fix a lot of their existing proportions problems (short thighs, short torsos, gorilla arms). I don't have a lot of pictures of them up as I'm doing it in phases. There's a few of my unfinished test models in the link in my signature.

GW Heroic Scale models just aren't really meant to be "to scale" I guess. Weapons are too big, hands are too big, arms are too long, etc. It afflicts nearly all of the models and has only really gotten worse over the years. So if people want somewhat cartoonishly big Space Marines, you can't really find too much fault in them. If anything, with some of the bigger True Scales, the Bolters all of a sudden seem like realistically sized rifles instead of the monstrosities they normally are.

1.) I am not a fan of Space Marines.
2.) I find the idea ridiculous that a SM army should be ogre sized, current size looks okay.
3.) How do 10 truescale Marines fit into a Rhino?

I agree that most truescaling is terrible, and as such, most truescalers don't have the right to be as snobby about their models as some of them are. No, you're not making them in the "correct" scale, you're just making them look dumb.

That said, I'm currently building a power army, and I am putting a TINY bit of truescaling into it. The reason why is because, when assembled in their default pose, space marines are SHORTER than a fair number of my guardsmen. They don't need to look uber-tall, but they should still look bigger, rather than smaller, than a dude with a flashlight and flak armor.

Most of the problems, as Vet Sarge notes, are problems with the way that the models were put together by GW, not necessarily the scale that they're in. Once you unbend the legs out of their stupid constipated squat, and fix the way the arms fit on the model, just making these corrections actually fixes most of what's wrong with marine models being made too small.

Doing this, and with just a little bit of a gap put in between the torso and the pelvis to lift the chest up a bit, you get something that looks clearly larger than a guardsman:



Once you start adding in plasticard, though, odds are that you're on a quick, quick path to making marines that look comically huge.

Kroothawk wrote:1.) I am not a fan of Space Marines.
2.) I find the idea ridiculous that a SM army should be ogre sized, current size looks okay.
3.) How do 10 truescale Marines fit into a Rhino?

Rhinos aren't truescale either.

Ten Marines have never fit in a Rhino model, lol. Not even the original, smaller Rogue Trader era figures.

Not a fan myself. I have some seen a small fraction that are excellent looking minis overall, but I like marines the way they are. If I wanted super accurate minis and what-not, I'd go play a historical game with Perry Miniatures.

it looks bad. as others have already said tiny heads, proportions wrong etc.

kinda dumb how they think theyre making imporvments. and it's also GWs rules and GWs game, truescale is whatever GW decides.

truescale is more like fake scale. IMO.

I'm sorry but the argument that the "proportions are all wrong" etc. is entirely invalid. The proportions and such are all wrong in the current scale to begin with, otherwise there wouldn't be a need to true scale the marines in the first place.

Why don't y'all just fess up, you're just jealous that your existing marine armies aren't TS ;P

It doesn't help that only a few truescale projects put them in the right proportions. The same problems exist in all projects - helmets and guns remain the same size, which throws the look off, even in the projects that correctly only make them a head or so taller than a guardsman.

The biggest offender is most truescale projects use terminator legs, usually with the little shield things cut off. Which look downright stupid - terminator legs looked dumb to begin with, seeing them on every Space Marine just makes it look like a bunch of armoured guys trying to take a dump in their armour.

comments on the terminator legs aside, the size of the helmet/head, and likewise the bolter, SHOULDN'T change when you're true scaling. Both the head and the weapon are over-sized as it is.



Thats not a bolt pistol he's holding...

....those are even smaller:


I think you guys all underestimate how out of scale GW's minis are to begin with, or you have become to accustomed to their depiction of human proportions to realize what things should look like according to their own artwork.

chaos0xomega wrote:I'm sorry but the argument that the "proportions are all wrong" etc. is entirely invalid. The proportions and such are all wrong in the current scale to begin with, otherwise there wouldn't be a need to true scale the marines in the first place.

Why don't y'all just fess up, you're just jealous that your existing marine armies aren't TS ;P

i dont think many gamers are offended by the current size of marines, it's kind of trivial. funny that i rarely see any of these "truescale" marines painted, probably because the makers spend all of their time slicing things up.

the end result of all that work slicing things and spacing things out is an inferior product IMO. i myself would rather spend my time trimming mold lines, gluing, painting - getting things done rather than converting stuff and making them look goofy.

Are you kidding me? Most true scale armies I have seen in person and on these forums are very damn well painted, I'd hazard a guess that they are both constructed and painted to a higher standard than your own miniatures. Whats funny is that I've never seen any of your miniatures painted... I've searched through your posts and see you trash talking a lot of other peoples work without posting anything of your own, you're either a Golden Daemon winner or an elitist without the credentials to match the attitude.

I don't mind the true-scale stuff when it's done well, but I'm *super* sick of all the pre-heresy stuff.

chaos0xomega wrote:Thats not a bolt pistol he's holding...

Yes it is. Check the holster on his right leg that is just the right size to carry it. Astartes couldn't grip a bolter built for human hands as theirs are too big - their fingers wouldn't fit between the magazine well and the grip to pull the trigger, let alone inside a trigger guard if there is one. It's a bit like me, a fully grown adult, picking up a childs plastic toy gun.
The image you posted of Imperial Fists shows an Astartes scale bolter - they're big so that they can actually use them with their larger hands. There's a scale Storm Bolter at Warhammer World in Nottingham UK and I can tell you if I tried to pick it up to use it, I'd have to use three fingers to pull the trigger and I'd be surprised if I could carry it for any length of time before being tired. Astartes kit is oversized so that they can use it comfortably and will be resiliant enough to withstand their super-human strength.

True Scale: Marines with STRAIGHT LEGS.

I'm particularly fond of my truescales. Beats the hell out of the terrible proportions of the normal space marine models, they just look goofy.

Truescale can look really cool. Unfortunately it's hard to get it to look that good, and often you can end up looking goofy if you don't give it 100%.

Also vehicles become a problem.

Your models look pretty awesome Fafnir.

No, my brother....you are not alone.

The worst thing about "true scale" is how it inspires some weak individuals to also try to "true scale" the rules.

This invariably always lead to over-powered marines because these kids always forget to "true scale" the other races as well.

Sigh. *shakes head*


I am telling you....it is GW fanboism gone horribly wrong!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

chaos0xomega wrote:Are you kidding me? Most true scale armies I have seen in person and on these forums are very damn well painted, I'd hazard a guess that they are both constructed and painted to a higher standard than your own miniatures. Whats funny is that I've never seen any of your miniatures painted... I've searched through your posts and see you trash talking a lot of other peoples work without posting anything of your own, you're either a Golden Daemon winner or an elitist without the credentials to match the attitude.

The very definition of flame-bait.

... Now I'm half-tempted to try this 'true-scale' thing with my current terminator conversion project...

yes one standard "treuscale" marine can kill approx 2780.77 orcs single handedly, his tears cure cancer and he can shoot fireballs from his ass

Steelmage99 wrote:No, my brother....you are not alone.

The worst thing about "true scale" is how it inspires some weak individuals to also try to "true scale" the rules.

This invariably always lead to over-powered marines because these kids always forget to "true scale" the other races as well.

Sigh. *shakes head*


I am telling you....it is GW fanboism gone horribly wrong!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

chaos0xomega wrote:Are you kidding me? Most true scale armies I have seen in person and on these forums are very damn well painted, I'd hazard a guess that they are both constructed and painted to a higher standard than your own miniatures. Whats funny is that I've never seen any of your miniatures painted... I've searched through your posts and see you trash talking a lot of other peoples work without posting anything of your own, you're either a Golden Daemon winner or an elitist without the credentials to match the attitude.

The very definition of flame-bait.

While I can agree with the fact that space marines should be bigger compared to say guardsmen I think true scale armies come out looking a bit silly to be honest.

Huh, most truescale looks like crap, huh? So do most conversions/sculps/paint jobs. Sounds like sour grapes.

When it is done well it is pretty darn cool. It often isn't done well, but hey, most stuff isn't.

It just seems like you might as well argue "is anyone else sick of painted mini's, because most minis are poorly painted and I'm sick of it". "Is anyone else sick of shading, because most shading looks like crap". Repeat for osl, custom models, custom rules, power weapon effects, etc.

GW themselves admit their models aren't 'true to scale', but are instead what they call 'heroic scale' which is another way of saying easier to sculpt. That is why forgeworld guardsmen are so tiny and oddly proportioned compared to GW guardsman, they are 'true scale' i.e. have human proportions. The truth is there is room for improvement and it is interesting to see what people come up with. Most of it is poorly done, that is life.

The complaint about it inspiring 'true scale' rules is silly, that was already a thing, and always will be. 'Movie marines' predates truescale.

In general I prefer someone who takes the time to mod their army over someone who doesn't.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:Ten Marines have never fit in a Rhino model, lol. Not even the original, smaller Rogue Trader era figures.

They do! I wish i could find the site but someone did a conversion with 10 RT land speeder pilots in a RT rhino. It was tight but then again APCs aren't made for comfort.

If you're gonna true-scale your marines, you might as well play the Movie Marines list too since they've scaled down marines for balance.

A Waveserpent can carry 6 wraithguard and 2 characters... No, it can't.I have broken 3 waveserpents attempting this.

Yes, Truescale is old. But it looks great when done correctly.

I'm not necessarily a fan of the true-scale conversions. But I've seen some well painted ones, which I alway appreciate.