Am I the only one getting sick of all this true scale?

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**Commander Jimbob**

Fafnir wrote:I'm particularly fond of my truescales. Beats the hell out of the terrible proportions of the normal space marine models, they just look goofy.

These images perfectly link to my opinion - I think that, when true scale is pulled off well, it is perfectly acceptable (I'd actually welcome it). True scale 40k would add nice variations to armies, albeit some would be incredibly expensive.
That said, I'd stay away from collecting true scale myself, as I prefer small minis

**chaos0xomega**

Sparks_Havelock wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:Thats not a bolt pistol he's holding...

Yes it is. Check the holster on his right leg that is just the right size to carry it. Astartes couldn't grip a bolter built for human hands as theirs are too big - their fingers wouldn't fit between the magazine well and the grip to pull the trigger, let alone inside a trigger guard if there is one. It's a bit like me, a fully grown adult, picking up a childs plastic toy gun.
The image you posted of Imperial Fists shows an Astartes scale bolter - they're big so that they can actually use them with their larger hands. There's a scale Storm Bolter at Warhammer World in Nottingham UK and I can tell you if I tried to pick it up to use it, I'd have to use three fingers to pull the trigger and I'd be surprised if I could carry it for any length of time before being tired. Astartes kit is oversized so that they can use it comfortably and will be resiliant enough to withstand their super-human strength.

Yeah, and when true scaling it is unnecessary to size up the weapons further... its already oversized, larger than an Imperial Guardsmans (what is supposed to be a 6ft tall human being) torso for christs sake. Comparing the Imperial Fist photo to true-scale marine pics tells me that the bolter shouldn't be touched (except possibly for detailing purposes).

**DarknessEternal**

I've seen enough Rhinos with 10 Marines in them to know that 10 Marines have always fit into a Rhino.

**Veteran Sergeant**

Not a chance. We tried wedging 10 Marines, the old 2nd Edition Boxed set ones, which are about as compact as Marines get, and they did not fit inside the original Mk1 Rhino hull. I own several of these tanks, and anyone who says otherwise is lying, or converted the hell out of their models. You can't even fit ten Marines with no arms or backpacks in one. The RT era plastic Marines might be able to be wedged in there because they are significantly smaller and skinnier, but not in a manner that would be realistic.

The newer Rhino model is a bit more plausible in scale, though it still won't fit the heavy weapons of a Devastator squad, or really even the single heavy weapon of a Tactical Squad.

**Soo'Vah'Cha**

they will fit, you just have to dis-assemble them

**ph34r**

Veteran Sergeant wrote:Not a chance. We tried wedging 10 Marines, the old 2nd Edition Boxed set ones, which are about as compact as Marines get, and they did not fit inside the original Mk1 Rhino hull. I own several of these tanks, and anyone who says otherwise is lying, or converted the hell out of their models. You can't even fit ten Marines with no arms or backpacks in one. The RT era plastic Marines might be able to be wedged in there because they are significantly smaller and skinnier, but not in a manner that would be realistic.

The newer Rhino model is a bit more plausible in scale, though it still won't fit the heavy weapons of a Devastator squad, or really even the single heavy weapon of a Tactical Squad.

Did you honestly just not try to read the thread at all?

It has been done. With sitting marines.

**Veteran Sergeant**

Show me a picture, of 2nd edition models, fitting inside the original model of Rhino. I guarantee it hasn't been done without significant modification to the chassis. I have loose 2nd Edition Landspeeder crew members, the most compact of modern sized sitting Marine models, and ten of them won't fit in there either. Sitting across from each other, they touch knee to knee in the center and their heads are above the ceiling. Three of them take up more than the full length of the crew compartment. These models have no weapons or backpacks either. So I say again, it cannot be done, unless you're compressing them in without regards for any realistic configuration.

Darkness Eternal said they "always" fit. And that's just patently untrue.

**theman99808**

I will be the first to say, yes when a "true scale" marine army is done well they look great. I will say tho alot of them look silly, alot of people have gotten what i have been saying, dont just upscale the armor, you need to do the heads, weapons and what not. True scaling the vehicles is a big thing for me, yes your marines might look sweet and be painted nicely but if your rhino looks like a power wheel it just ruins it for me. Dreadnoughts are another big thing for me, I own 7 of the suckers and only once have i seen one that was truescaled right. normally they just look like a dreadnought with sentinel legs that look like they are ready to break off. Also im not calming im some converting god and everybody else's stuff sucks, (truthfully there are SO many people out there that are alot better than me at painting and Im a art major

)

**Kroothawk**

A Space marine is truescale, when his brain is not bigger than his thumb. Guess that's what makes them so fascinating

**SilverMK2**

You don't need to up scale the heads and weapons on TS marines. The weapons on them are reasonable. Though I personally am modifying the pintle mounted storm bolters into chunkier bolters and pistols you don't have to - bolters are already large weapons.

You also don't have to make the heads larger - thanks to the heroic scale gw sculpted them in they already have massive heads

Not to mention in relation to the rest of the SM body, their heads only marginally increases in size. It is probably the least affected part of their body to the implantation process. Just look at all the GW artwork, or even some of the better 'realistic what would a SM look like' pictures (on phone so can't link).

My personal TS project has marines ranging from probably 7 to high 8 ft range, compared to a guardsman, depending on the SM's pose. That is more than acceptable to me

**chaos0xomega**

Again I state: People that think that TS marine heads and weapons need to also be made bigger are either unaware of, or have become to used to the deformed proportions that GW sculpts its miniatures in.

**Veteran Sergeant**

SilverMK2 wrote:You don't need to up scale the heads and weapons on TS marines. The weapons on them are reasonable. Though I personally am modifying the pintle mounted storm bolters

I've been toying with these as well too, however they are hard to find or expensive as bits so they will probably be reduced to weapons for special models or veterans.

**Wyrmalla**

This thread made me go out and buy a box of Chaos Space Marines to see exactly what the issue of true scaling is. Now admitedly with the original box you can't quite get to the art scale size, they look more like a guardsmen in power armour and would require terminator parts probably, they're not that bad. My own marines only stand two head spans above a guardsmen, but they look indefinately better than at their original size and all I did was lengthen the legs and bulk out their torsos (everything else is fine the size it is). I don't exactly see what the argument is here? Is the original poster complaining about bad modellers or the whole concept of art scale conversions?

**walledin**

I don't think I will ever understand the "True" Scale marine crowd. They remind me of some of the FoW players at my local game store who won't play Mid War because the boots on their 15mm Germans are the wrong size for that period.

**Veteran Sergeant**

What's not to understand? It's an opportunity to convert and model. A lot of people find that to be the most fun part of the hobby. Assembling and painting the stock models is rather uninspiring for me these days. I was always a converter at heart, so this is a chance to do some more extensive conversions. But mine use the standard power armor models as I don't like the "big hips" look of the Terminator leg conversions and I don't feel like sculpting torsos essentially from scratch.

**ObliviousBlueCaboose**

Id rather have true scale Guardsmen. Im really annoyed at the mutant deformed freaks that make up the Imperial Guard.

**Samus_aran115**

Not a fan either. They look stupid unless a master is doing it, really. Agree with the vehicle thing. I always thought terminators looked silly next to a land raider... Well. Ten true scale marines looks infinitely more absurd :3

**Brother SRM**

Considering even if you truescale your entire army your opponent likely hasn't, there are going to be some problems with MY IMMERSION or whatever. Also, I like the "heroic" scale as is. Most miniatures manufacturers make their minis in this scale, and generally always have. Besides, it means I can actually tell the difference between a meltagun and a bolter from 3 feet away.

**Veteran Sergeant**

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:Id rather have true scale Guardsmen. Im really annoyed at the mutant deformed freaks that make up the Imperial Guard.

Well, 40,000 years of evolution obviously saw the need for giant hands, gorilla arms and big heads, lol.

**candy.man**

There wouldn’t be a need for true scaling IMO if the current GEQ models weren’t oversized. From what I gather, out of the current guard range, only the DKoK from FW are proper scale. The sad thing is that a lot of third party company seem to be basing their GEQ models off the GW Cadians, meaning that the desire for true scaling will all but increase.

That being said, there are a lot of “dodgy” true scaling projects that give the overall idea of the concept a bad name. The idea of remodelling your army to a different scale is actually a pretty cool concept. I’m actually taking a similar approach as Ailaros with my “not-space marine” project and am using Micro Arts studio Knight Legs to make the models slightly taller without messing around with the overall synergy or scale of the model.

**d-usa**

Two reasons of why I am working on True Scaling:

1) According to the fluff, you start out with a human. Then you become a Scout which has already been through most of the transformation of becoming a marine, wears thicker armor than a guardsman, then a Space Marine.

Yet the scout model is smaller than a guardsman. It just looks silly to me. Some people will not play with an unpainted army, some people will not play against proxies, and some people would rather play with models that are "scaled" to actually be bigger than the models that are supposed to be smaller than them.

2) I like the challenge of modeling, learning how to green stuff, finding conversion pieces, improving my painting, etc. I like figuring out how to make the best looking true scale model that I can.

**Kroothawk**

chaos0xomega wrote:Again I state: People that think that TS marine heads and weapons need to also be made bigger are either unaware of, or have become to used to the deformed proportions that GW sculpts its miniatures in.

I am talking not about the models but the truescale art: It portrays the Space Marines as huge bodies with a tiny pinhead and a corresponding brain. Guess the head is only to prevent rain from entering the power armour. Looks ridiculous IMHO.