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Just curious, is it vital for a dreadnaught to go into suspended animation while not active? Is there anything stopping them from being fully awake all the time? From what I understand a SM is more or less impervious to ageing as we know it, kinda like the eldar but not to the same extent.

If it is an issue of ageing, how old can a SM live before succumbing to natural causes? I know Bjorn the fellhanded has been around for well over 10,000 years however he has spent around 9,000 of those in a dreadnaught. In his earlier years he was highly active but now he is rarely awakened. Would this be a sign of old age or is this some kind of side effect of being physically and mentally linked to the machine?

Thanks.

I taught that no space marine has ever died of old age. In that case, nobody would know, but I don't know 4 sure.

If Dreads don't get put into stasis after they battle, then they go crazy.

Coolyo294 wrote:If Dreads don't get put into stasis after they battle, then they go crazy.

Basically this.

It would drive the drivers insane hence why Chaos Dreads are all insane.

Is there a reason for why they go insane? According to the SW codex bjorn stayed active for some 500years after being put into his dreadnaught after which he returned to the fang to rest. I dont think I have ever read the reasoning behind the sleeps.

Thatguy91 wrote:Is there a reason for why they go insane? According to the SW codex bjorn stayed active for some 500years after being put into his dreadnaught after which he returned to the fang to rest. I dont think I have ever read the reasoning behind the sleeps.

Lets see your trapped inside of a big box. Can't move any other muscle and you can't get out at all.

Fair enough. So theoretically it would depend on the individual inside the dreadnaught how much he could take before it becomes too much. Am I correct in assuming that?

If that is true that would mean that some individuals could stay like that for all eternity without long sessions of induced sleep. Obviously some rest would be required, otherwise cognitive ability would slowly deteriorate even with the super human capabilities of mental rest.

So what im trying to say is, if a person encased within a dreadnaught possesses personality traits that allow him to live encased within this new body with minimal discomfort if any at all, could that person then avoid prolonged sessions of suspended animation?

Thatguy91 wrote:Fair enough. So theoretically it would depend on the individual inside the dreadnaught how much he could take before it becomes too much. Am I correct in assuming that?

If that is true that would mean that some individuals could stay like that for all eternity without long sessions of induced sleep. Obviously some rest would be required, otherwise cognitive ability would slowly deteriorate even with the super human capabilities of mental rest.

So what im trying to say is, if a person encased within a dreadnaught possesses personality traits that allow him to live encased within this new body with minimal discomfort if any at all, could that person then avoid prolonged sessions of suspended animation?

Sometimes yes and sometimes no. Space Marines can't die of old age.

Awesome. Thanks for the help. Needed info for some fluff that I was thinking about for one of my projects . I guess ill just have to write it up and see what happens.

More than crazy,.........didn't they get also "senile"??............. I thought so..............

Depends. If the space marines were engineered to live for such long periods of time then that would require their tissue to regenerate differently or stay static or something like that. However the latter would be impossible i think.

Im pretty sure that all forms of "forgetfulness" are simply due to the fact that the tissue in your brain is slowly dying, like Alzheimer's or Parkinsons. I would think that the genetic engineers would have kept this in mind when they created the SM gene-seeds.

You bring up a good point though. When you live that long surely your memory would be effected in some way, even if you didn't suffer from any damaged brain tissue. Storing that much information seems a bit incredible even for a super human. But then again we have the eldar and they would probably experience similar problems. I doubt this has been covered in the fluff for the races, if it has I have certainly never heard of it.

Asherian Command wrote:Space Marines can't die of old age.

Ehh, ... I'd say they can, if only because Space Marines do "collect" signs of visible ageing after their transformation was complete. What is kind of concealing this, however, is that there aren't a lot of Space Marines that grow very old (1.000+ years) by sheer nature of their profession, and that the Imperium possesses technology to extend the lives of powerful nobles and Adeptus officials by a great deal, and naturally this would include Chapter Masters. It is actually common for influential humans to grow hundreds of years old - yet even though just like with Space Marines there is no clear example of one such individual dying of old age, I do not believe that juvenat treatments can extend life indefinitely. Dreadnoughts on the other hand are a somewhat more "drastic" measure and may indeed never incur biological decay as the few organic bits left are suspended in conserving fluids or whatever.

This is personal interpretation, however; it is just as likely that any human can live forever so long as he regularly undergoes juvenat treatment. It is theoretically possible to completely renew cell restoration, after all. (interesting link: http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2008/08/11/2331197.htm)

But yes, I suppose that over the millennia, the brain would "go dull" from the narrow focus a Dreadnought has. They may have read ancient texts that none other in the Chapter have ever seen, but how often do they engage in reading stuff after being interred in a Dread? If they are only pulled out of stasis for battle, this means that anything else will become a distant memory over time, eventually being forgotten completely, until all that is left is a servitor-like shell of the person the Marine once was. Needless to say, stasis would slow down this development considerably, just as it would decrease the mental pain of being locked away in a box that is said to lead to insanity.

If I was wheeled out like the ol' grandpa of the family every time there's a "family event" I'd go nuts too...

Very interesting article. Thanks for sharing!

So we can basically deduce that life can be prolonged indefinitely given that the technology and resources allow for it. The problem of boredom and repetitiveness is still the main problem it would seem. So basically it is possible for a dreadnaught to stay awake for incredibly long periods of time, however this would more than likely lead to insanity because of the way of life the marine is forced to live. More or less.

Im trying to find a way to make one of the characters in my DIY chapter as active as possible within the chapter without making it seem odd. Basically I want him to be awake as much as possible, to oversee, guide and inspire the chapters new recruits. Unfortunately he is incased within a dreadnaught which makes this quite tricky. Anyone got any ideas that might help me out?

Perhaps he has only recently [in 40k terms] been interred within the sarcophogus?

I have already written some of the fluff and as it stands now he was put into a dreadnaught in the late 38th millennia. I guess that could easily be changed but I would like him to be quite aged. You are right though, that is probably the easiest way to go about doing this.

Another question just popped into my head... Is the helmet essential for a marine inside a dreadnaught? I cant think of any reasons why it would be other than the same reasons a normal marine would wear a helmet. Anyone know anything about this?

Re. the helmet - probably depends where/how badly injured he was. Given how badly injured y'need to be to be shoved in a dread in the first place, it's entirely possible that the marine wouldn't survive not being in a completely sealed environment.

Course, if he just had, say, his lower torso blown off... maybe he could wander around as a dread without a helmet on.

Dreadnoughts smoking cigars? feth yeah!

Eiríkr wrote:If I was wheeled out like the ol' grandpa of the family every time there's a "family event" I'd go nuts too...

Hahah, good comparison.

Thatguy91 wrote:Basically I want him to be awake as much as possible, to oversee, guide and inspire the chapters new recruits.

I'd say that this is the perfect reason already. Just make it so that the Dread is still put into stasis - but instead of being pulled out solely for battles, he is awakened for a few hours in regular cycles (not too often mind you) to share his ancient knowledge and wisdom with recruits (and even vets!) in some sort of Chapter ritual. Kind of like grandpa telling a story whilst the kids sit around his comfy chair. You could "excuse" this divergence from standard protocol by claiming that the Chapter thinks that this kind of activity helps deal with mental degradation, basically a conviction that a Dread being "engaged" in such activities will help him stay sane. Like the difference on how some sanatoriums deal with old people, having them play chess instead of just letting them rot in a bed all day long.

You could even have funny things like the Dread privately commenting on how Veterans of the Chapter have "grown up" and become "proper warriors" compared to the raw recruits he has gotten to know them centuries ago. Have some sort of warrior-brother-relationship between the Chapter's heroes and the Dreadnought so that even the Captain(s) consult him for counsel or reassurance. In essence, he would become like some sort of "Semi-Chaplain".

Love that idea. Thanks for the help guys, really got my creative juices flowing

also, you could try putting him in a FW contemptor dread as there isn't anything that says they aren't immune/more resilient to the ravages of old age as they're more advanced.

The Salamander novels mention that old Salamanders who can no longer do their duty go on a 'long walk' out into the wastes at the end of their service. I'd read that to mean that Salamanders at least do suffer from the effects of aging.

Part of putting a Dread into stasis is probably boredom. It's not like they need to stay in shape like the regular SM. I'd imagine that having a multi-ton death machine tromping around is probably hard on the building too.

It's not exactly boredom, its just inactiveness. These marines spent their entire lives training. Training, chapel, training, training, maintaining armor, training, polishing bolter, sleeping, training.

To go from that lifestyle to "seriously I have an autocannon and carry as much ammunition as a Predator so I don't need to practice" would be a bit of challenge. Mix that in with no longer being a member of a squad and a few mental cracks can start forming.

One of the dreadnoughts in "Fall of Damnos" spent half the book thinking he was fighting orks instead of necrons.

Its not exactly crazy, more like stir-crazy. Cabin-fever if you will.


Most of the time, Dreadnoughts just really arn't needed by the chapter. hence its more of a mercy to let them snooze then just wittle away their time hanging around the Monastary when there isn't much else to do besides oil your bolter, and the dred can't even do that. Dreds also arn't needed on most missions the chapter goes on. Most missions can be solved by a single squad, like a small uprising on a nearby world. Marines pop down and people suddenly forget that they wanted to overthrow the governor because he was withholding their pay. Situation gets explained out, Sergeant Bob sends the rioters home and incarcerates the leaders, then Sergeant Bob slaps the governor for negligence. Everyone goes home at the end of the day, except for those who get handed over to Imperial Justice just so we can keep the Grimdark label.

Okay, so if a dreadnaught had a more active role within the chapter he may be able to stay awake for longer periods of time without going bonkers?

I think it is the really old ones that get put into stasis. the longer they are n thre the more their mind dulls

Asherian Command wrote:Lets see your trapped inside of a big box. Can't move any other muscle and you can't get out at all.

It's JUST when you get put into your dreadnought armor that your nose starts to itch...

Thatguy91 wrote:According to the SW codex bjorn stayed active for some 500years after being put into his dreadnaught after which he returned to the fang to rest.

Yeah, but being active is not the same as being on all the time. I consider myself an active adult, and even I sleep.

But anyways, it's mostly this:

Grey Templar wrote:Most of the time, Dreadnoughts just really arn't needed by the chapter. hence its more of a mercy to let them snooze then just wittle away their time hanging around the Monastary when there isn't much else to do besides oil your bolter, and the dred can't even do that. Dreds also arn't needed on most missions the chapter goes on. Most missions can be solved by a single squad, like a small uprising on a nearby world...

And as others have mentioned. The human brain wasn't designed for both immortality and limited physical functionality. It's why doctor-assisted suicide exists.

Letting the dreadnought deal with recruits would be useful in several ways. The recruits hear his advice and see what might happen if they one day get to become great heroes and then blown to pieces. The dreadnought gets to practice on all those faces and names, hopefully keeping his memory sharp.

Once he starts refering to scouts by the names of long-dead marines you know it's time to either put him in stasis or let him perish in battle so the shell can go to a new hero.

Exactly. It would keep his mind stimulated for a longer time and perhaps would help him deal with his new way of life. Im liking this more and more I just say.

The Iron Hands have something like 3 company captains that are Dreadnoughts. This is not just a formality either, they take an active hand in the organization of the chapter and regularly go out with their companies on missions. I would suspect it is hard to run an SM company if you are only active once in a while. Source: Iron Hands novel.

Now the Iron Hands may be exceptional, machine lovers that they are, but there does seem to be precedent in the fluff for Dreads to be active indefinitely.

I personally think Chaos Dreads go crazy because, well, that is what you do when you fall to Chaos. But there seem to be exceptions there too, The detachment of Violators on Torvendis were commanded by a Dreadnought, and he didn't go berserk and murder anyone on his side even once. Source: Daemon World novel.

So yeah, go nuts with your Dreads that don't go nuts.