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The rulebook states the wizard who casts the spell may chose to end the spell at any time.
Does this then mean that a wizard can just instantly turn the spell off if something like a purple sun takes a wrong turn and heads back towards his own troops?

Yes

No you can't.

BRB FAQ 1.5
Page 36 – Spell Resolution, Remains in Play Spells
Change “[...]at any time[...]” to “[...] at any time, except for
magical vortexes which he can only choose to end at the start of
a phase[...]”

He can turn it off at anytime but in the example you described i believe you would need to allow the spell to finish its move before you can switch it off.

(That might be wrong but i think that is how its supposed to work, although i would imagine a powerfull wizard could just as easily dispell it in the blink of an eye.)

Its certainly an interesting poser.

He can turn off a vortex only at the start of a phase, as per the FAQ. Or if you recast it on your magic phase.

Damn, missed that one

THere is a similar FAQ for the WoC spell that creates an exalted hero - withthe way the sppells are worded you could end it after he is wounded, but before losing the model, meaning no wounds are counted for e.g. combat res, etc.

I agree that you can end the Call to Glory to prevent him from being killed. (if another attack was going to happen at lower int) and dening them the VP..
The FAQ only talks about the VP. It doesn't say anything about your opponent not able to count the wound for CR. I would point out this would be the same as no more foes. Your opponent gets the wound for CR.

Here is a better example.
3 units in combat face to face (2nd round, no cmd), 10 orcs, 10 gobins, 10 Warriors. The orcs do 2 wounds, and the Warriors do 10 wounds to the goblins and 2 to the orcs.

CR would be, 12 for Warriors, 2 for OnG. If you treat the exalted hero the same as the goblin that the goblins are no longer there, then the Warriors only did 2 wounds since there are no more goblins left.

Now we know thats not true, and the warriors CR would be 12..

So I concude that the exalted hero would still give 1 wound for CR if he took one and then was dismissed.

Artee wrote:
Here is a better example.
3 units in combat face to face (2nd round, no cmd), 10 orcs, 10 gobins, 10 Warriors. The orcs do 2 wounds, and the Warriors do 10 wounds to the goblins and 2 to the orcs.

CR would be, 12 for Warriors, 2 for OnG. If you treat the exalted hero the same as the goblin that the goblins are no longer there, then the Warriors only did 2 wounds since there are no more goblins left.

Now we know thats not true, and the warriors CR would be 12..

So I concude that the exalted hero would still give 1 wound for CR if he took one and then was dismissed.

I'm not on anyone side since this is new to me but... in your example the goblins that died would have failed their saves or not even getting the chance to save, however the exalted hero would probably be allowed to save with his 3+ and also parry the incoming attacks. Meaning you wouldn't know actually how many wounds would have really passed. I'm assuming the dispell goes after the wounds are done but before the saves are rolled, otherwise yeah I'm 100% with you, if you failed your saves and then removed on your own will the model then you count the wounds towards CR

If you remove it before rolling for saves then no wounds have been caused, thus no CR

Yayula, My example was for unsaved wounds. I didn't want to get into the discussion of did they charge, Do they have banners, do they have ranks.. As you can see its why I put only 10 in a unit, no cmd and 2nd round.


Since the roll for wounds happened, they next step would be for saves. If you decline doing your save, then it would be unsaved wounds.

Thats the way I would call it.. You are more they welcome to dismiss him before the hits or after the saves, but not between the hits and saves. Doing otherwise is not spirit of the game.

You dont have a choice in rolling saves, however, you MUSt roll them
However no model was around to receive the wounds, so no wounds were caused

Which is why the FAQ covered this

The FAQ for WOC states VP points. Nothing about dismissing him in the middle of hits/wounds.

Its all find if its your turn, but on my turn I would allow you to dismiss after saves are done.

The FAQ covered it for *timing* purposes - saying in the spirit of the game you should dismiss at phase start or end, not mid phase. Well, it used to - theyve changed it to remove that line

Q. What happens when Call to Glory is dispelled/ends after it has been cast? (p108)
A. The model disappears. This does not count as killing the Exalted Hero and does not award the extra 100 victory points.

This allows you to end it before you roll for armour saves. At this point there are no unsaved wounds, and no CR.

CR is for wounds. If you dismiss it when wounds are done, they still get the wounds for the CR.

The FAQ that was quoted was to answer the question, do I get VP if I done a wound and he dismisses do I get the VP?

I'm not saying that you have to dismiss it at the start of the phase or end.. What I'm saying its not in the spirt to dismiss it between the time I Hit and roll to wound, or between Wound and saves.

As stated already, for timing purposes, go ahead and dismiss between on your turn.. if its my turn, I chose the timing, and he can be dismiss after the hits/wounds/saves of that Int step. If he taken a wound during combat that combat before the dismissal, that wound would still be CR. And if I did wounds and you dismissed before saves, I would argue that the wounds was unsaved.

It would come down to the Most Important Rule and roll for it.

CR is for UNSAVED wounds. Check your rulebook. If you dismiss the hero before you roll for saves, NO unsaved wounds have been caused

I was also pointing out that a PRIOR version of the FAQ addressed the timing issue - you should, in the spirit of the game, dispel at the start of end of a phase, as anything else is a bit game-y

On your turn you do NOT choose the timing - what makes you think you do? The actual rule is the WIZARD chooses when to end it, not you - you are now simply making rules up

If you start making rules up and trying to force a roll off through TMIR, then i would start doing something similar.

Try on page 10. Sequencing.

Artee wrote:Try on page 10. Sequencing.

Irrelevant. Notice the requirements for "at the same time" in there?

Now try Page 36, the MORE SPECIFIC rule on dispelling RIP

"(which he can do at any time"

I am choosing to end at any time, this "any time" being immediately beofre rolling for saves. Looks like your rule on page 10 doesnt apply, because they are not at the same time, so you dont get to choose.

If you hadnt noticed I *agreed* with you that it is a move not in the spirit of the game, however you sayong what you would "allow" irks me somewhat!

Yes.. Same time,, you are dismissing it at the same time as saves are suppose to be rolled.

Your interpretation and mine is why I said it would come down to the TMIR.

And this is why we need them to define an action, so that you can't try to do things like this.

i.e. Once I roll to wound, you roll to save and resolve them with no window to stop the RIP spell. I find it utterly silly to allow this, even in the spirit of RAW (which I am a proponent).

If I ever used the spell (which I don't), I wouldn't try to bone an opponent like that. One of my few moments of trying not to be TFG.

Artee wrote:Yes.. Same time,, you are dismissing it at the same time as saves are suppose to be rolled.

Your interpretation and mine is why I said it would come down to the TMIR.

No, I'm not. I'm dismissing it before you roll saves, as I have permission to state "at any time" I am dismissing it. You are now making things up, again

Sorry, but I'm making things up. I stand by what I already stated and what the rules say.

The rules do not say what you are trying to say.

You are therefore making things up.

You can pretend otherwise, however it does not change a basic fact: Page 10 ONLY APPLIES when something happens at the same time. This does not happen at the same time. Page 10 does not apply

You're wrong, RAW wise

You keep saying it is not going to make it turn.

I know Im right. Roll to wound, roll to save. You deside to dismiss before the saves its is at the same time as your save roll.

Fact is, if I do 2 wounds and you decide to dismiss, you infact did not save the wounds so they are unsaved so 2 CR.

Gee, didn't mean to start a nerd fight ;P

Glad you guys are having such a thrilling debate, but I was more wondering about vortex type spells like purple sun and bad moon.

As I understand it from the posts above. RAW says yes, however, it appears to have been corrected in the FAQ, good deal. Thanks for the info.

Artee wrote:You keep saying it is not going to make it turn.

I know Im right. Roll to wound, roll to save. You deside to dismiss before the saves its is at the same time as your save roll.

Fact is, if I do 2 wounds and you decide to dismiss, you infact did not save the wounds so they are unsaved so 2 CR.

Ah right - you "know" youre right, despite ignoring the rules.

You keep on that, its a winning formula in a discussion on rules.

I'm not ignoring the rules. You are trying to manipulate the rules to your advantage.

Artee wrote:I'm not ignoring the rules. You are trying to manipulate the rules to your advantage.

Yes, which is legal because its within the rules. I manipulate the movement and deployment rules to my advantage and so forth.

Nos is using the rules as they are written to support his argument, you must show that his argument is wrong, but you have to do so with the rules themselves(or the basic rules of English grammer and definitions if its something as basic as that)

Artee wrote:I'm not ignoring the rules. You are trying to manipulate the rules to your advantage.

See Grey Templar.

I am using the rules exactly as written, you are makoing up rules (that when it says "at anytime" that must be at the same time as another event - which is a lie, as the rules dont say that)

If you disagree you can do so, but you wont be convincing unless you can come up with some actual rules arguments.

Lets go back to the orignal statement.

THere is a similar FAQ for the WoC spell that creates an exalted hero - withthe way the sppells are worded you could end it after he is wounded, but before losing the model, meaning no wounds are counted for e.g. combat res, etc.

One Call of Glory Exalted hero is attached. Roll to hit, Roll to wound. the WoC Player dismisses the Call of Glory. Then states that since he doesn't give up any wounds to combat res since it was dismissed.

Pg 51 (CC) "Roll to Wound" As with shooting, once you have hit your for, you must roll again to see whether or not each hit inflicts a wound. and Pg 42, "Roll to Wound" (Shooting), , Any dice that equal or beat the score shown on the chart have sucessfully scored a wound. (Str/tuff chart number).
Pg 51 (CC) "Take Saving Throws", As before in Shooting phase, the enemy player can try to 'save' models that have been wounded. Pg 43, "Saving Throws", Each wound suffered may be cancelled if the controlling player makes a saving throw.

Pg 52, "Calculate Combat Result". - "Wounds Inflicted" Each side basic combat result is equal to the wounds caused in the combat.

So if the Call of Glory Exalted hero is dismissed after being wounded in the roll to wound, then the number of wounds that was inflicted would be the number of wounds added to CR.

Now that I see that the "Take Saving Throws" is "can" try rather then "must" try. I no longer see a sequ issue. Since he decided to dismiss the hero rather than cancel("save") the wounds.

As you see, I am not making up rules, I have use them already used in the thread.

So your statement that they happen at the same time wasnt making up rules? That would be why you're now ignoring that statement and pretending you never said it, by arguing something entirely different?

Funny