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Though my first love is Eldar, my second love is for orks.. Two opposites I know, but there it is. I was wondering for people on Dakka, what their feelings are on MadDoc grotsnik...?
I played the orks until 3rd edition, then took a break from warhammer 40k until 5th edition.... I had been playing mainly my Eldar, but recently I started running a unique list, which has worked well for me, but may be not for everyone. My two HQs are usually a Big Mek with KFF and Mad Doc Grotsnik. He is good in CC and makes his squad fearless and have FNP since he is a MadDoc and all. His disadvantage - though I have never seen it as this, is that he must always move towards an enemy. The other benefit is that you ork army list can not all take Cybork Armor (+5 invuln.), even grots (have never done this). I know some may argue, take more boyz instead of wasting the 5 points, however my boyz have survived flamer attacks, HW attacks, power weapons, that even 2 - 3 boyz would have been instantly killed for. So in my opinion, I believe it is worth it. In addition it always makes my opponent think after I tell them, my whole army has invuln saves (sans vehicles). I am also a big Burna fan over the lootas as I know my boyz will hit with the flamers and the lootas.... Anyway I usually end up having a smaller group of orks, but I believe with the invulns I think it is worth it. I usually run Burnas, Boyz, Battlewagons, Meganobz (with 5up invuln - it is like having terminators - except slow and purposeful and not great at shooting - but very survivable...) Just wondering what peoples thoughts were

Putting the mad doc in a unit of 30 ard boyz is wonderful. Slap a KFF mek and they don't need the invun saves.

Beyond that, I was never a fan of using his invun trick, unless it was cheaper or not possible on models that were low in number.

Then again, invun grot horde is, as always, funny.

Ha, I love orks Eldar will be my next full fledged army.

I run the dok, here's some advice/thoughts I just recently posted about him:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/426988.page#3861156

The problem with the Big Mek and KFF it only applies to shooting. I always try to keep him in a Battlewagon with a squad of 15 Burnas - give him a burna - hell I killed a squad of Termies with the sheer volume of saves he had to make. I like Mad Doc with Meganobz 9 in a battle wagon with him. I try to run 1-2 squads of meganobz, 2 squads of 10-15 burnas, mad doc, Big Mek all in Battle wagons, and 2 squads of boyz in trukks (ran behind the battle wagons, but in a block to give them all the big mek's save.... I love this formation. In huge battles I have run Deffkoptas or Stormboyz or bikes. It usually ends up being a small ork list but I think more surviveable than regular ork mobz and like I said I will take 1 boy with a 5+inv over 2-3 without that will get flamered or powerweaponed to death, at least they have their invuln. This is my opinion though.

I'm still kind of building up to a battlewagon list, but 9 meganobz with doc is bad news lol. I have done the termie to meganob conversion on 10 so far(not finished) and they are looking great so far. Yeah the dok is the only thing that makes mega nobz viable imo. Without him they are pretty pointless. My next army is going to be mechdar. Mainly for a complete change of pace, and because instead of having to paint 300 boyz I can just paint a few models

Anotehr thing you can do is just run those 2 squads of boyz in reserve in their trukks. It works pretty well for contesting/grabbing objectives late game.

I was hoping for more posts on this guy. I really think he is the bees knees so to speak in the ork HQ slot next to Mek Boyz. Don't get me wrong I like Ghazghul and I like weirdboyz. I know some think it is not worth the points giving boyz invulns, but they have always gotten their points back and I can't tell you how many times they get hit with weapons that would have insta killed them.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/427753.page

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/412217.page

Actually, using Cyborks Kommandos is nothing new. They've been around for (at least in my area) ever since the 'new' Orks codex 1st came out. Not many Ork players used it though, since the majority of them were much more into the motto of getting more & more Boyz would be better. Well, each of us Orks players have our own approach to build what we thought as the more effective Orks army.

What I'm putting here is something from personal experience.

Personally for me, the Mad Dok is simply marvelous, especially so when running a MANz army. I used to run Thrakka + Mad Doc + 16 Cyborked MANz + Snikrot's Kommandos + 6 Killa Kans + 2 Lobbas + 10 Boyz + 3 Trukks. For more than 2 years running, I won the local tournaments with the said list (or a slightly tweaked version of it). Being unbeatable - bear in mind, this is before the remake of GK - (except in one final match against the old codex SW), I decided to retire the army (much to my opponents' relief). A year after the army retired, due to financial problem, I sold the army..& never seen them (the army/models) again after that.

Last year (Feb 2011), I managed to get my hands on some AOBR stuffs + other old school Orks stuffs very-very cheaply. Thus now I have some 40+ Boyz, 2 Bosses, 10 Kommandos (including 2 Burnas), 6 metal Killa Kans, 2 Kannons, 2 Lobbas, 3 converted new Warbikers all with PKs, 10 really old school Warbikers..& finally, the Mad Dok.

Since I don't have any Trukks or BWs, I've got to change my play-style & experimenting with many different combos. Thanks with the Orks FAQ allowing ICs to come ambushing together with Snikrot really helped a lot. The only time I've ever won against Draigo + 20 Paladins with Orks was also when I was experimenting with a full-fledged Thrakka & Mad Dok-lead Cyborks army.

Currently I'm aiming to get back a Thrakka model. Proxying Thrakka just doesn't give him justice. Once I have the Thrakka model, then my army is complete.

To sum it up, the luny Grotsnik is one of my all time favourite next to Thrakka & Snikrot. Able to give the whole army 5+ invul save is simply awesome. Most Orks players don't like it, but what do I care..as long as it works for me & I'm having so much fun out of it, then I don't see much problem here.

P.S: Sorry for ranting too much

Interested in the trukk list. I have been trying some diff setups with this list:

Dok
KFF
22Boyz Cybork
20 shootas
20 shootas
6 cyborked manz
6 kans
deffdread
15 lootas.

So when you ran trukks you just ran 3 trukks with dok+Ghazz + bunch of manz you just tried to table them? What was your typical deployment?

Again I'd like to apologize, cuz this is going to be quite a long-winded explanation from me. And please take note that what I'm about to share here was my experience long before the appearance of the souped-up new GK codex. Please be patient with me..

Well, deployment is really depend on the terrains set up & mission. But, regardless of mission or what army that I was fighting, I'd almost always try to go 1st.

When I managed to go 1st, I just deployed the Trukks to the front line with the most direct routes towards the juiciest targets. The Killa Kans, since they were much slower, will act as my 2nd wave attack element. Sometimes I'd split Thrakka + 5 MANz (in Trukk of course) on 1 flank, while Mad Dok + 5 MANz & another 6 MANz on the other flank. Killa Kans will cover the center of the table.

When I had to go 2nd, then I'd deploy the Trukks behind any sort of terrains that would give them some sort of cover, or put the Killa Kans up front like a wall to cover the Trukks.

1st turn, I'd just red-turbo-charged forward. Sure, more often than not, these cardboard drag-race speedsters will be destroyed in the blink of an eye due to enemy fire. But by then, I was already 19" closer towards them. Plus, the ramshackle rules were totally awesome.

Don't know about you guys, but when I rolled for the scatter direction, they very rarely pointed back towards my own line. I've lost count just how many times my opponents' eyes bulged in disbelieve when the Trukks they've shot at 12"-24" away suddenly veered & wrecked left/right /center, & ended that much closer to their doorsteps.

Once in a while, I'd get super duper lucky, & ended up with my Trukks safely made it through the 1st round unscathed. Then, needless to say, the 2nd turn would be the clobbering time. Even when I was not lucky, the MANz never did suffer much from the wrecked Trukks. Only 1 unit suffer from Ld 7, Ghazzy have Ld9 + Bosspole. Grotsnik's unit is Fearless.

Furthermore, 2+, 5+, W2 + wounds allocation made them really survivable. Grotsnik's MANz team, they were even more resilient with FnP. They soaked up so much of the enemy fire powers, that most of the time my Killa Kans were virtually untouched & managed to reach their Grotzookas 18" range.

The mistake that my opponents made were treating the MANz like MEQ Termies. Despite their similarity of 2+ sv, they are not a small unit of 5 wounds. I was basically playing a 5-'men' 2+ sv unit with 10 wounds! With wound allocation shenanigans, they were even more a nuisance. AND, I had 3 units of these! Add-in an immortal Warlord (Thrakka) & a crazed Mad Dokk, they were purely awesome.

By Turn 2, the opponent would also have to worry about Grotsnik appearing from behind their line. The funny thing was, most of them were too preoccupied with taking down Thrakka's & Grotsnik's MANz teams, that they totally forgot about the Kommandos ambushers. & when the Kommandos did turn up, then its time for some WAAAGH magic + simultaneous multiple charge. Maybe you haven't been in that situation, but after all that shooting & the opponent still have almost a dozen of Cybork-MANz (Thrakka included, & the Mad Dok too of course) within 8"-14" of you, AND 10+ Orks appearing from behind you, with Thrakka going to shout his WAAAGH you'd start to get worried, if not panicked.

From what I remembered, the fastest was getting a 1st turn charge (the enemy was kind enough to move closer towards me in his 1st Turn), but normally I'd get a 2nd Turn charge, sometimes 3rd Turn, & very rarely was I delayed up to 4th Turn onwards. Needess to say, the ensuing combat was very devastating.

By 3rd, or the lattest in 4th Turn, my much neglected 2nd wave of the attack (the 6 Killa Kans) would have arrived.

All the while, the 2 Lobba-Big Gunz would pounce on enemy softer targets, especially hidden enemy units with heavy weapons. 90% of the time, these barrage-crazed Grots would survive the whole game all neglected, forgotten & untouched. The funny thing was, in almost every game, they got their investment returns doubled or even tripled their cost. Their best killing shot was causing 7 wounding hits on a hiding 10-men Hamminators, killing 3, & made them ran off the table. It was such a hilarious scene, I still make jokes about it up till now.

What about the unit of 10 Boyz? They were safely hidden somewhere behind/in BLOS terrain having a picnic while claiming that 1 objective that I needed to win the game.

The worse opponent I've ever faced? Fast moving zip-zagging skimmer-spammed Eldar say you? Nope..faced that several times, no problemo. IG LR-spammed gun-line? Nope..been there, done that. Nidzillas & their many creepy crawlers? Wrong again.. What about Tau & their much vaunted Railguns? Nah, it was a no contest. That same Tau dude retired his Tau army & started a SM army instead. Chaos? MEQs? Other Orks? Nope..not them..

So who/what was it?

It was an old school SW army with a GK Grandmaster Ally (this was several months before the release of the 'new' SW codex). Somehow he managed to squeezed around 5/6 CMLs (Cyclone Misile Launchers) in his termies sqd. Even his HQ was totting a CML, madness!! Plus some oddball spc rules concerning his wolf-pet taking the hit instead of its master-IC being smacked by PKs. I was not even sure the legality if his army due to him using the GK Grandmaster ally, but since the TO allowed it, I couldn't say anything.

It was a screwed-up match, made worse with my dice rolling lots & lots & lots of for my 2+ armour svs. With 12+ Krak Misiles coming my way in 1 volley of fire, & me failing most of my 2+ svs..oouch!! It happened during the finale of a knock-out tournament, & I had my 1st & only loss with the Cybork-MANz army.

I wouldn't blame your losses simply on the existence of the GK codex. Purifiers spam or huge units of paladins might be bad, but your army shouldn't have that much problems with either. Any other GK army isn't particularly stronger against orks than other marines.

While you seem to be a great player, you might want to give the balance of your list a thought. From what you tell us, it seems the only really good army you faced was a well-rounded SW list (though I have no idea why he'd want to field that Grand Master). Many armies (even most of those you mentioned) can do much better than 10-12 S8 rockets.

The two-punch theory is pretty much that, a theory. In practice the harder you punch your enemy, the harder it is for him to get back up. Adding kanz to a trukk army makes your first punch much weaker, and betting on luck for your trukks to kareen the way you need is not going to cut it. If you'd use buggies or trukks instead, your would have those points available for use during your first punch, while making it much difficult for your opponent to handle them.
If you re-read your descriptions you'll find that the things which did best for you were actually your fast elements, while your kanz did absolutely nothing for three turns. Rather use those slots for more lobbas, kannons or a boomgun, which will be able to help you right away.

In addition, I would replace those 10 boyz with gretchin. They pretty much do the same as those boyz, but have more wounds, due to being twice as many models. Neither unit is going to survive dedicated shooting or an assault anyways.

I'd also like to point out that MANz can only do wound shenanigans to a certain extend. As you can only have three different possibilities to equip MANz, the fourth wound is definitely going to kill one of them.

Oh well, those were things of the past. I don't own them (the MANz army) anymore. I just hope the new owner will have as much fun with them as I did.

One thing fer sure though, buying/collecting 17 metal MANz models (Thrakka included) + 6 metal Killa Kans was no small feat. Carrying/transporting them was a different painful issue altogether. Which is why, although I missed them a lot, there'd be no way for me to restart a MANz army again..unless sometime in the future, in their infinite wisdom, that suddenly GW produces plastic MANz box set..only then would I reconsider.

Jidmah wrote:Purifiers spam or huge units of paladins might be bad, but your army shouldn't have that much problems with either. Any other GK army isn't particularly stronger against orks than other marines.

I strongly disagree. I can beat other Marine armies fielded by the same players. They shoot farther with more shots at 24" that are stronger than any other Marine Codex (Storm Bolters, Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo), they have more mobility with Stormravens, Shunting units, and the Summoning, and EVERY Gray Knight negates wound allocation and IK Nobz. Do you have any battle reports and army lists from which we could learn something? Because I would be highly interested in finding out how other Ork players beat those bastards.

It is a hard decision a boy for 6 points or a cybork boy for 11 points, almost double. It all depends on how you want to play them. Personally, I think they are a little more survivable with the cybork armour, so I go for that. I think it makes the points back, but then again it is not for everyone. Maybe it doesn't seem so expensive to me since I started with Eldar and they are so expensive to begin with point wise, that the extra 5 points for the invuln save appealed to me. Cheers

MarshallDin wrote:Oh well, those were things of the past. I don't own them (the MANz army) anymore. I just hope the new owner will have as much fun with them as I did.

One thing fer sure though, buying/collecting 17 metal MANz models (Thrakka included) + 6 metal Killa Kans was no small feat. Carrying/transporting them was a different painful issue altogether. Which is why, although I missed them a lot, there'd be no way for me to restart a MANz army again..unless sometime in the future, in their infinite wisdom, that suddenly GW produces plastic MANz box set..only then would I reconsider.

Buy the assault termie box and put ork faces/nob weapons on them. I have "looted" terminator armor for my manz since the metal models are ridiculously priced. With the conversion you can build 10 manz for ~100 bucks +some ork faces. You also get to keep the TH/SS and can use them on the Aobr termies for your vanilla marines. It's also fun to try to write waagh on the purity seals in green lettering .

In my games with manz so far I have had great success with them, but my "army" isn't working as well as I had hoped. I am thinking of dropping the kans/kff mek and running ghaz with them instead. I have also had some success with rokkit buggies for the FA element, but it's inconsistent because some guys will focus fire the buggies first/second round.

I played a GK player this weekend and lost, but did well. The purifiers+coteaz+grand master in a storm raven charged my Dok +20Cyborked boyz. At the end of the fight the only thing left was the grandmaster and my kans took care of him. The dok + 20 cyborked choppa boyz can easily handle 10 purifiers, I was talking to the GK player and he mentioned that FNP was really the biggest problem purifiers have. My 6 manz shredded his two dreadknights, but the thing I always fear with the manz is their LD. If the game had gone 1 more turn (ended on 5) I might have beat him. The problem I have been having with my army is that it is short on scoring units. When you add the dok to a group of boyz, they are no longer effectively scoring. So I have been thinking of dropping the dread+KFF+Kans and picking up snik and ghaz-which would solve my scoring unit problem by making the manz scoring. I have tried adding a BP to the KFF and grouping him with manz , but then the manz get stuck slogging with the Kans which is no good, or the KFF gets singled in CC. The KFF dieing in CC with the manz isn't too bad an option really, the bigger problem is the manz belong in front of the Kanz-way in front of them.

MANz & BM+KFF don't really goes together that well, unless if you can get them onboard a BW. Even then, when it really matters, a BM taken purely for KFF can't dish out effective support in cc.

To tell you the truth, although I've used Big Mek + KFF to some success, I've also found that they are not that great either. I'm saying this because I don't own any transports, & most of my Orks are slogging it all over the battlefield. Don't get me wrong, BM+KFF may suits your army just right, but not mine.

This is especially true when I was fighting GK with Fly-Knights & IG (Hellhound ). & once the boyz are in cc, the function of the KFF is moot anyway. Which is why I'm equipping my Boyz & Kommandos with Cybork Body upgrade. 5+ sv that can always be used is better than 5+ cover sv than can be negated by those nasty guided-misile S6 flamers (or any flamers for that matter).

Normal GK or Purifier army is quite an ok opponent for me, meaning my Cyborks army have a fighting chance of winning. But when its Draigo + 10-20 Paladins, then its really a brain tumor for me. The most devastating part, in my opinion, is their WS5. Which is why pitching MANz against Paladins is a bad match up.

The only time I won against Draigo + 20 Paladins was when I multi-charge them piece-meal with Grotsnik, Killa Kans & the remaining of my 20-men Cybork Mob charging 1 Paladin sqd, while Thraka & a Deff Dredd charging another. I somehow managed to kept Draigo busy with the Deff Dredd that he can only glance to death, while Thraka took care of the whole 10-men Paladins all by himself. The Fly-Knight was swamped by another Cybork-Mob.

He was over-confident & wanted me to engage him in cc, even purposefully moving forward so that I could get a charge at him. In our next encounter, & the next one after that, he just kept on moving away & shot my army to death.

Thraka is my solution to take out the Paladins, & he almost always did managed to destroy a full Paladin sqd all by himself, but once his WAAGH effects ended, he's fair game. Cyborks Mobz are great too, but to get them across the table is quite a chore.

Ghenghis Jon wrote:

Jidmah wrote:Purifiers spam or huge units of paladins might be bad, but your army shouldn't have that much problems with either. Any other GK army isn't particularly stronger against orks than other marines.

I strongly disagree. I can beat other Marine armies fielded by the same players. They shoot farther with more shots at 24" that are stronger than any other Marine Codex (Storm Bolters, Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo), they have more mobility with Stormravens, Shunting units, and the Summoning, and EVERY Gray Knight negates wound allocation and IK Nobz. Do you have any battle reports and army lists from which we could learn something? Because I would be highly interested in finding out how other Ork players beat those bastards.

No battle reports, but my list I usually take to tournaments is your run-of-the-mill battlewagon bash. Four battlewagons, diversified nobz, shoota and slugga boyz, burnaz + thrakka, kff and buggies/lootaz/koptaz in some combination. I still haven't found my perfect solution on those, just to few points to get enough of them in there
GK tend to be very small armies, so even with BW lists tend to outnumber them unit-wise. I just try to stay in my wagons as long as possible and have them dodge my burnaz/nobz or die. Outside of lucky rending, there is not much they can do to stop a battlewagon from the front.
In larger games I tend to add trukk boyz, but those really aren't a particularly great help against GK.

Yeah, I haven't played Gray Knights since I got my third BW, but nobody plays them at my store except one guy who plays straight Inquisition (he hates GK Marines as well). My 1850 list I have now for GKs is Ghaz, KFF, Burnas (in BW with Killkannon), Lootas, 2 Boyz Mobz in BWs, Boyz Mob in Trukk, and 2 Deffkoptas. I put Thrakka with a Boyz Mob. What do you think the advantage of him with Burnas is? Do you assault with all of them, or do you just drop him off and have the Burnas shoot from inside the BW? Don't your Nobz get killed pretty quickly by those Force Weapons? Also, I have the AP3 Killkannon for killing Power Armour Marines. I have been thinking about dropping Ghazgkhull and getting a SAG for anti-Terminators. What do you think about that?

Ghenghis Jon wrote:What do you think the advantage of him with Burnas is? Do you assault with all of them, or do you just drop him off and have the Burnas shoot from inside the BW?

All of the above. That's really the point of putting him there. If there is a unit that can kill lots of burnaz(like purifiers), the burnaz can't hurt the target or if the burnaz can flame something from their wagon, Thrakka is going out by himself and using his Waaagh!, without getting dragged down by possible fearless wounds. If the enemy unit is weak to power weapons, like TEQ or MEQ, the burnaz are going with him to rip them up without the Waaagh! - thrakka provides burnaz with a PK, ld9 and a boss pole, something they usually don't have. Or you just disembark them on different sides of the wagon and have each of them charge a target, or multi-charge two units with thrakka going into a different unit than most burnaz.

Don't your Nobz get killed pretty quickly by those Force Weapons?

Nope, they don't. In practice, my nobz are my number one unit for stomping purifiers into the ground. If getting charged, even a full unit of purifiers will struggle to put enough NFW wounds on the nobz to save themselves. Keep in mind that any weapon upgrade on a GK MEQ removes the NFW from that model. So a unit of ten models with four psycannons actually has only 12 attacks which can possibly cause instant death, against T4, WS5, 5++. Now, if any of those are from daemon hammers they would even strike at I1, making your PKs strike at the same time, with your BC/Choppas/'urty syringe maybe killing that hammer by accident before that happens. Pretty much the same for strike squads and interceptors, as well as any henchmen unit, just stay the hell away from terminators or paladins.

Also, I have the AP3 Killkannon for killing Power Armour Marines. I have been thinking about dropping Ghazgkhull and getting a SAG for anti-Terminators. What do you think about that?

The killakannon is nothing but an overcosted, terrible gun. If you equip that battlewagon with all big shootas and a kannon/lobba, you'll find it killing more marines than the killkannon does, for less points. GK power-armored marines tend to not do better in combat than your regular tac squad/assault marines, so I wouldn't bring a killkannon just to combat them.
The SAG is great against greyknights, if you can afford to go without Thrakka, sure, go ahead. But in my experience, I need Thrakka to face other armies, and he does a pretty decent job at stopping GK Terminators or small units of Paladins by himself, so I really wouldn't want to miss him.

Jidmah wrote:The killakannon is nothing but an overcosted, terrible gun.
The SAG is great against greyknights, if you can afford to go without Thrakka, sure, go ahead.

I have only used the Killkannon once in December against Chaos Space Marines on foot and just annihilated them with it. I usually run 3 Buzzsaw Rokkit Kopters, so I just exchanged one for it. An easy fix on the old Excel spreadsheet. And it is only 1 Weapon Destroyed result away from being removed, too. I just started using Thrakka in January. After taking into account the mandatory KFF, that last HQ slot is kinda not necessary. I can fill it with whatever I want. Thrakka or a SAG?

Can't give you a solid answer on that. Math says Thrakka, but you're playing WH40k, not Math.

If you can expect solid long-range shooting (Rockets of any flavor, battlecannons, or equivalent) in most of your games, your SAG might implode before doing any damage at all, in that case, go for Thrakka. If your games are dominated by mid-range shooting and hordes, the SAG is well worth its points. Just make sure you buy a sufficiently large enough unit of gretchin and a boss pole to go with it, as it's still going to take some fire.

Grey knights are why I stopped running Nobz mobz, Mega or otherwise.

The one game I've played with Mad Doc attached to Snik's boyz went great. Looking forward to using him more. Special thanks to Dakka for rules clarifications, otherwise I'd not want to use him due to his funky Rage like rule.

Something to remember with MaNz is that they have 2 Wounds, can Sweeping Advance, essentially Ignore Cover (stikkbombs and SnP means it makes no difference) and can ride in anything, whereas Termies can't SA, can only ride in Land Raiders, and die to a single wound.

Add 5+ cyborking to MaNz, and you don't have Termies, you have Paladins. Better Paladins. 5 mobz of 3 for maximum Shenanigans, if you'd like. One of which also is Fearless and has FnP, with Grotsnik.

MANz are as much paladins as battlewagons are land raiders.

Paladins have great stats for everything, including WS, initiative(halberds) and strength(hammer hand), with access to great wargear all around, including warding staves, banner and psycannons. In addition, they are lacking slow and purposeful and a terrible ld value. MANz are nowhere even close to paladins, even if the paladins have no gear at all.

"You ignore terrain" because you are always forced to move through terrain (stikkbombs do nothing for MANz btw), is like saying that you won't get wet from the rain if you go swimming. Terminators can also ride storm ravens and deep strike onto the board. I'd argue that deep striking is just as mobile as a trukk is.

In addition, combining Grotznik with MANz will make a terrible unit. What's the point in having a unit which costs you an HQ slot, an elite slot and about 300 points on a dead 'ard unit which you have absolutely no control over - neither the direction, nor the distance they move. And 5++ isn't exactly goint to save them from getting shot to death by meltas or lascannons.

It's also impossible to field five mobz of MANz and Grotznik in the same FOC.

I like the posts on hear, but I think they have gotten a little off subject. With Mad Doc even if you do not run Manz, is he worth it to give boyz in the army cybork bodies, does it make them that much more survivable. Most of the time a wounded ork is a dead ork as far as boyz are concerned. Is an army of Orks with Cybork bodies going to do better or win games more than an army without, but almost twice as big. It is a hard call, esp. since you are usually taking a Big Mek with KFF, so if you choose Mad Doc you can not have Ghazghul who is a beast... It is a hard call

If you're taking the Mad Dok, you're probably not going to need a KFF Mek. 5++ is better than a 5+ Cover save- it'll be expensive, of course.

Well the reason for taking the Big Mek would be to protect the vehicles that everyone is in.

If your running vehicles, yes a KFF is pretty much auto take. I can see what your doing with the Dok, but I personally think adding the 5++ to EVERYTHING is just killing your army over all. Id suggest, sticking the Dok in a large (20+) mob of boyz and give all of them the 5++. It would be a deathstar unit all its own, say 19-29 boyz all with FNP and all 5++ with a Nob/PK, same benefits, and lastely the Dok. Now that would be fun. And for every 5++ you dont put on the other boyz, you can nearly buy a free boy, meaning you can expand your army.


The thing is though, you said your running vehicles, so heres the problem, Id say, running the Dok, and adding more boyz due to not taking the 5++, means your boyz are getting larger, meaning they should either be on foot, or in a BW. So your left choosing, do I run all BW (because sticking them in trukks at this point just wont cut it) or do I run them all on foot?


Answer that, and I can give ya more advice

I have mainly been playing my armies in as many battle wagons that I can field usually 2-3. If I do not play with him, I usually take 3 Battlewagons, Big Mek KFF, Ghazy,19 Shoota boyz with big mek (Nob with PK), 18 boyz -slugga/Choppa (nob with PK), Nobz squad with Painboy with cybork body, 'Eavy Armor, 3-4 PK one with bosspole, 3 big choppas (1 with WAAGH Banner), all usually with kombi scorchas, then a 30 man squad of shoota boyz with 3 big shootas and nob PK, and two 5 man squads of Lootas. I usually use my 30 man to hold objectives or protect or bubble wrap my lootas.....
So what I am thinkinig if I use Mad Dok for one squad am I better off not using him and using Ghazy and the Nobz squad? My battle waggons all have deff rollas, red paint, 2 big shootas and grot riggers.

Ghenghis Jon wrote:

Jidmah wrote:Purifiers spam or huge units of paladins might be bad, but your army shouldn't have that much problems with either. Any other GK army isn't particularly stronger against orks than other marines.

I strongly disagree. I can beat other Marine armies fielded by the same players. They shoot farther with more shots at 24" that are stronger than any other Marine Codex (Storm Bolters, Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo), they have more mobility with Stormravens, Shunting units, and the Summoning, and EVERY Gray Knight negates wound allocation and IK Nobz. Do you have any battle reports and army lists from which we could learn something? Because I would be highly interested in finding out how other Ork players beat those bastards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owjGcHeJ3jY&feature=plcp&context=C3405453UDOEgsToPDskL9FexkNkIPineU7EpE_OUN

Kan Wall manages to tie a Grey Knights. Lootas on the left. PS, that guy's channel is really good

Edit: changed the video link to the correct URL