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Please find a way to break this because that all encompassing words seem to make for a very silly situation. I know it only last for a turn but the squad itself is never pinned it just cant do anything else that player turn (period)

I will show you the page, paragraph, and sentence to read to get the ruling. I believe it was faqed in the basic rulebook faq that if something says just turn it means only that player turn per page 9.

First: Go to page 67 of the rulebook. Read the 2nd to last sentence in the first paragraph of disembarking.
Second: Refer to page 9 & Read the paragraph in the top right about game turns and player turns.

Given both of the above if my unit emergency disembarks and gets pinned in his player turn then when that turns ends my unit is no longer pinned. Its rules as written and reinforced with faq to clarify turn = player turn.

If you read pg 67. The unit cant do anything for the rest of that turn but they are not pinned it is just similar to being pinned but only last 1 game turn. Theoretically RAW they cant even fight back if assaulted but usually an emergency disembark will happen after an assault so you wont have to worry about that. However, if you shoot a vehicle that you have surrounded to a point where they need to ED then you could assault them without them being able to attack back RAW "they can do nothing else that player turn". Hell, they cant even flee?

I think by RAW the final assumption may be correct. They can't do anything for the rest of the turn. That overly broad language could mean they don't have to roll saves or assign wounds either. lol

That being said, I think that we can amend that to 'voluntarily'.

Correct. If you emergency disembark on the 'bottom' of a turn, there is no downside whatsoever on the next turn. It is a pretty poorly written rule that penalizes the player going second.

calypso2ts wrote:Correct. If you emergency disembark on the 'bottom' of a turn, there is no downside whatsoever on the next turn. It is a pretty poorly written rule that penalizes the player going second.

Your right and wrong. You dont have to be at the bottom of a turn as it stops after that current player turn. Your right that there is literally no downside to emergency disembarking and that it is pretty poorly written that might even help the player emergency disembarking.


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pretre wrote:I think by RAW the final assumption may be correct. They can't do anything for the rest of the turn. That overly broad language could mean they don't have to roll saves or assign wounds either. lol

That being said, I think that we can amend that to 'voluntarily'.

Your correct they cant even die for the rest of the turn... the rulebook disallows it.

Just for clarity's sake, let's quote the whole rule:

P67 - "...'emergency disembarkation' - the models are deployed anywhere within 2" of the vehicle's hull, but the unit can't do anything else for the rest of the turn."

P9 - "Whenever a rule uses the world 'turn', both in this rule book and in the Codexes, it means 'player turn', otherwise it will clearly state 'game turn'."

Contrast Go to Ground's rule (which doesn't apply because ED doesn't force pinning or G2G) P24 "The drawback of going to ground is that the unit can do nothing until the end of its following turn... Whilst it has gone to ground the unit may do nothing of its own volition, but will react normall if affected by enemy actions (for example, it will take Morale tests as normal). If the unit has to fall back, it will return to normal immediately. If assaulted, the unit will fight as usual, but gains no advantage for being in cover beacuse they are not set to receive the enemy charge."

Tomb King wrote:

calypso2ts wrote:Correct. If you emergency disembark on the 'bottom' of a turn, there is no downside whatsoever on the next turn. It is a pretty poorly written rule that penalizes the player going second.

Your right and wrong. You dont have to be at the bottom of a turn as it stops after that current player turn. Your right that there is literally no downside to emergency disembarking and that it is pretty poorly written that might even help the player emergency disembarking.

Agreed about it not mattering if you go first or second. Disagree about there being no downside.

Most of the time, you'll be disembarking during your own turn. By doing an emergency disembark, it means you can't shoot/run or assault later that turn. That's the downside.

And, there's clearly an implied "voluntary" in there, even if it isn't spelled out.

Grakmar wrote:Most of the time, you'll be disembarking during your own turn. By doing an emergency disembark, it means you can't shoot/run or assault later that turn. That's the downside.

I disagree with this. It is very rare that you would emergency disembark on your own turn. The only time you would would be if an enemy assault failed, but stunned/immobilized your transport and you were desperate to get out and do something. 90+% of the time, I see it as happening when an enemy assault succeeds and I am surrounded, having to ED.


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Also, from a RAW standpoint, implied doesn't cut it. RAI, sure.

I also disagree that you would ED on your own turn most times, usually it is because an enemy has surrounded your vehicle and assaulted it.

I completely missed the following entry in the rule...

"The drawback of going to ground is that the unit can do nothing until the end of its following turn..."

I retract my turn ordering statement.

calypso2ts wrote:I also disagree that you would ED on your own turn most times, usually it is because an enemy has surrounded your vehicle and assaulted it.

I completely missed the following entry in the rule...

"The drawback of going to ground is that the unit can do nothing until the end of its following turn..."

I retract my turn ordering statement.

That's for Go to Ground, calypso2ts, not for Emergency Disembark. I placed it there for contrast.

pretre wrote:

calypso2ts wrote:I also disagree that you would ED on your own turn most times, usually it is because an enemy has surrounded your vehicle and assaulted it.

I completely missed the following entry in the rule...

"The drawback of going to ground is that the unit can do nothing until the end of its following turn..."

I retract my turn ordering statement.

That's for Go to Ground, calypso2ts, not for Emergency Disembark. I placed it there for contrast.

yes because, a squad that has to emergency disembark never actually gets pinned or goes to ground. They sit in a wonderful limbo state where nothing can effect them and they cant effect anything... I think I see an faq to fix this forthcoming because someone could argue that there unit is invincible while still being useless of course, for that player turn and they would be correct with RAW.

Example:
In a tournament with a game of 6 turns I have to emergency disembark with one of my troops on an object from my opponents shooting on the bottom of turn 6. He could try to charge me but as it states nothing will happen because anything is all encompassing and the game would end with me contesting or holding the objective still depending the positioning.

pretre wrote:

Grakmar wrote:Most of the time, you'll be disembarking during your own turn. By doing an emergency disembark, it means you can't shoot/run or assault later that turn. That's the downside.

I disagree with this. It is very rare that you would emergency disembark on your own turn. The only time you would would be if an enemy assault failed, but stunned/immobilized your transport and you were desperate to get out and do something. 90+% of the time, I see it as happening when an enemy assault succeeds and I am surrounded, having to ED.


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Also, from a RAW standpoint, implied doesn't cut it. RAI, sure.

Right. No one does an emergency disembark during their own turn because of the downside. That's why the downside exists, to punish you for voluntarily doing an emergency disembark.

As for a strict RAW standpoint, let's break down exactly what a unit's actions are. Check the BGB to figure out if the action is described as the unit performing it, or if the action is described as the player performing it. Compare "The unit moves" (the unit's action) to "Move the unit" (the player's action)

A unit's actions are the following: move (p11), run (p16), shoot (p16), assault (p34), fight in CC (p34), sweeping advance (p40), consolidate (p40), take morale checks (p44), fall back (p45)

The following are actions taken by the PLAYER and not the unit itself: Taking saves (p20), removing casualties (p24), wound allocation (p25), defenders react (p34), pile-in (p40)

So, by your strict RAW, the unit cannot make any voluntary actions, it doesn't fight back in CC, and its immune to morale. But, it can still be shot and killed.

@grakmar: But the rule doesn't say that it can't take actions. It says it can't do anything. That means anything.


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Oh wait, I get what you're saying. You are right. Removing casualties is a player action.

pretre wrote:@grakmar: But the rule doesn't say that it can't take actions. It says it can't do anything. That means anything.


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Oh wait, I get what you're saying. You are right. Removing casualties is a player action.

Basically if they survive the unit is unbreakable...

And yet not fearless.

Tomb King wrote:
Example:
In a tournament with a game of 6 turns I have to emergency disembark with one of my troops on an object from my opponents shooting on the bottom of turn 6. He could try to charge me but as it states nothing will happen because anything is all encompassing and the game would end with me contesting or holding the objective still depending the positioning.

.....And I see any TO worth his salt ruling against you in this case. RAW is a good starting point for judging a tournament, but in the end the judge has consider fairness.

Ya know, they did an FAQ on this..................

Q: When a unit makes an ‘emergency disembarkation’
they cannot do anything else for the rest of the turn.
What does this mean? (p67)
A: It means that they can perform no voluntary actions.
Any action forced upon them, for example from failing
a Morale or Pinning test, they will still carry out and if
assaulted they will fight as normal.

Oh hey... Thanks, don_mondo!

So it is still 'player turn' but not ridiculous.

pretre wrote:

Grakmar wrote:Most of the time, you'll be disembarking during your own turn. By doing an emergency disembark, it means you can't shoot/run or assault later that turn. That's the downside.

I disagree with this. It is very rare that you would emergency disembark on your own turn. The only time you would would be if an enemy assault failed, but stunned/immobilized your transport and you were desperate to get out and do something. 90+% of the time, I see it as happening when an enemy assault succeeds and I am surrounded, having to ED.


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Also, from a RAW standpoint, implied doesn't cut it. RAI, sure.

A reason you might choose to voluntarily Emergency Disembark:
Assume a Chimera full of Ogryn (or really, any transport without a front disembarkation point).
Assume you (the IG player) want them to be out of their transport at the end of a 12" move, but don't want to expose the rear armor.
Drive your Chimera, and block the rear hatch with something (e.g., tank-shock through the enemy line, but with enemies still close to the rear hatch).
Use "Emergency Disembarkation" to bail out the front.

Or take that same unit of Ogryn, and assume that they start the turn with the hatch blocked (before moving). Without the limitations on ED, you could just hop out the front, move, shoot, & assault.

You would only want to do that if ED had no downsides, Janthkin. My point is you would never want to do that.

pretre wrote:You would only want to do that if ED had no downsides, Janthkin. My point is you would never want to do that.

"Never" is too strong; I've done the former upon occasion (especially with IG-like leadership, you don't want to take a chance on pinning tests - at times, it's better to be exposed to shooting & keep the vehicle intact for contesting).

But yes, the downsides on ED make it rarely applicable for use on your own turn.

Here is a down side:

Chimera gets charged from the rear by a MC, It only immobilizes the vehicle, but its blocking the only door. You can keep your troops inside and hope you don't get surrounded next turn, or you can ED (and not do anything).

Ray Age wrote:Here is a down side:

Chimera gets charged from the rear by a MC, It only immobilizes the vehicle, but its blocking the only door. You can keep your troops inside and hope you don't get surrounded next turn, or you can ED (and not do anything).

Or you can put 3 meltagun shots into the MC from the safety of your Chimera.

Let's not forget that with a monolith you can't actually fit 20 warriors within 2" of the portal so if you wanted to teleport them from off field or far away because you want that objective, you'd have to do an ED as well.

Kevin949 wrote:Let's not forget that with a monolith you can't actually fit 20 warriors within 2" of the portal so if you wanted to teleport them from off field or far away because you want that objective, you'd have to do an ED as well.

Are you joking?

Nemesor Dave wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:Let's not forget that with a monolith you can't actually fit 20 warriors within 2" of the portal so if you wanted to teleport them from off field or far away because you want that objective, you'd have to do an ED as well.

Are you joking?

Only 16 fit.

Kevin949 wrote:Let's not forget that with a monolith you can't actually fit 20 warriors within 2" of the portal so if you wanted to teleport them from off field or far away because you want that objective, you'd have to do an ED as well.

Note that the monolith's new rules override the standard ED. Any models which can't be placed when disembarking from the Monolith are destroyed. However, they will get their RP rolls.

Just to nitpick. those models "are removed as casualties", thus you will get the RP rolls.
If the models were destroyed, you wouldn't get to roll RP.

Lordhat wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:Let's not forget that with a monolith you can't actually fit 20 warriors within 2" of the portal so if you wanted to teleport them from off field or far away because you want that objective, you'd have to do an ED as well.

Note that the monolith's new rules override the standard ED. Any models which can't be placed when disembarking from the Monolith are destroyed. However, they will get their RP rolls.

Emergency disembarking is still disembarking. I don't think the monoliths rules override that at all, since it doesn't mentioned ED in the rules for it.

They don't disembark, they 'disembark'.

"That unit immediately phases out form its current position and 'disembarks' from the Monolith's portal. Any models that cannot be placed are removed as casualties, but the move is otherwise treated exactly as disembarking from a vehicle that has moved at combat speed". (C:Necrons pg 47)

Considering that the rule explicitly specify that if model cannot be placed, it is destroyed, I don't think one can make argument that Emergency Disembark is possible in good faith.

Except that they can be placed because of the emergency disembark rules.

if there was no room to place them they would be destroyed.