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Will a force weapon that successfully wounds a necron lord and then pass his leadership insta-kill the lord, or will he still get his WBB roll and get back up?

He'll get ID'ed (per the force weapon rules) but there's nothing stopping him from rolling for EL in that scenario.

What the EL roll?

Nope, you take that EL roll no matter what (EL is ever living, its a special reanimation protocol for IC's and special characters)

WBB is now reanimation protocols in the new dex.

So reanimation protocols may ALWAYS be taken (unless failed of course)

So there is no way to ID a Cron special character?

You can't permanently keep Crons in general down with ID unless they fail they're RP or EL rolls, period.

You can ID them just as anything can be, but if they have EL they can still get up again.

There is another way, Remove from Play is the other way around EL.

King Pariah wrote:You can't permanently keep Crons in general down with ID unless they fail they're RP or EL rolls, period.

You need to sweep them. I.e. sweeping advance the unit after winning combat, that keeps them from being able to roll for RP or EL. But with FW? No you can't keep them permanently down with a FW.

Is there anything in any of the SM dexes that will do that?

Just Jaws of the World Wolf. Hurts I2 crons as well

You seem to be mistaken as to what ID does, as well. Instant death just means you remove the model as a casualty after their first unsaved wound - then Ever Living / Reanimation Protocols kicks in and places a token down.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Just Jaws of the World Wolf. Hurts I2 crons as well

You seem to be mistaken as to what ID does, as well. Instant death just means you remove the model as a casualty after their first unsaved wound - then Ever Living / Reanimation Protocols kicks in and places a token down.

not only JOTWW, but Dark Elder with there stuipd Implosion Missiles and Shattershard, GK, libby Warp Rift are the only abilies that I know on hand that could remove them from play.

Hexrifle does it also for the DE.

mrblacksunshine_1978 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Just Jaws of the World Wolf. Hurts I2 crons as well

You seem to be mistaken as to what ID does, as well. Instant death just means you remove the model as a casualty after their first unsaved wound - then Ever Living / Reanimation Protocols kicks in and places a token down.

not only JOTWW, but Dark Elder with there stuipd Implosion Missiles and Shattershard, GK, libby Warp Rift are the only abilies that I know on hand that could remove them from play.

Double 6's on a SAG?

Boon of Mutation/Gift of Chaos, as slim a chance as they'll work, like the DE Shattershard, can be added to this list.

But otherwise JotWW is the best toy for dealing with 'Cron named nasties.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Marshall Ragnar wrote:Will a force weapon that successfully wounds a necron lord and then pass his leadership insta-kill the lord, or will he still get his WBB roll and get back up?

A lot of people think that there are left over items from WWB that apply to the new codex's Reanimation Protocols & Ever Living.

As thakabalpuphorsefishguy said, the old WWB with all of its little exceptions is gone.

Neither Reanimation Protocals nor Ever Living have any contingencies like AP1, ID, power weps or anything like those preventing the robot from getting back up. Just a stream-lined, and easy to remember rule: They can always get back up no matter how the model suffers that last wound.

Only the goofy items other posters are listing in the thread where "models are removed ... no save" blah blah blah, bypass RP & EL.

OverwatchCNC wrote:

King Pariah wrote:You can't permanently keep Crons in general down with ID unless they fail they're RP or EL rolls, period.

You need to sweep them. I.e. sweeping advance the unit after winning combat, that keeps them from being able to roll for RP or EL. But with FW? No you can't keep them permanently down with a FW.

Crons with Ever-Living always get to roll clarified by the FAQ, even if they have been destroyed by sweeping advance. You can deny EL by having a unit near the counter so it cannot get back up within 3" of the counter without being 1" from an enemy.

Don't be so sure about this remove from play. I know this is a big no-no on Dakka and the troll-king here will get a fit on this, but the only ruling that exists (St Celestine) says that removed as casualty abilities trigger when the model gets removed from the game.

Nemesor Dave making things up wrote:Crons with Ever-Living always get to roll clarified by the FAQ, even if they have been destroyed by sweeping advance.

The FAQ does not say that. It never mentions SA, meaning SA still kicks in.

We've been through this.

copper deliberately misrepresenting something, again wrote:Don't be so sure about this remove from play. I know this is a big no-no on Dakka and the troll-king here will get a fit on this, but the only ruling that exists (St Celestine) says that removed as casualty abilities trigger when the model gets removed from the game.

No, it says that SHE gets back up from Removed from Play as well as Removed as Casualty. Noone else gets to do so.

Also - Warp rift is RaaC, from memory

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Nemesor Dave making things up wrote:Crons with Ever-Living always get to roll clarified by the FAQ, even if they have been destroyed by sweeping advance.

The FAQ does not say that. It never mentions SA, meaning SA still kicks in.

We've been through this.

Yes we have which is funny how you contradict the FAQ and make no mention of any other opinion.

The FAQ doesn't have to give every possible way a model can be removed. It simply says the model always gets to roll for EL and come back if sucessful.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

copper deliberately misrepresenting something, again wrote:Don't be so sure about this remove from play. I know this is a big no-no on Dakka and the troll-king here will get a fit on this, but the only ruling that exists (St Celestine) says that removed as casualty abilities trigger when the model gets removed from the game.

No, it says that SHE gets back up from Removed from Play as well as Removed as Casualty. Noone else gets to do so.

Also - Warp rift is RaaC, from memory

EL rule says the model is "returned to play" also. Nobody is saying that the St Celestine ruling mentions other models, but the same conditions can apply.

One way to prevent EL is, if you defeat the Lord in close combat, to consolidate in a fashion that would make it impossible for him to return to the table.

If you've nothing new to add and cannot refrain from making cheap shots and insulting other posters then it's best you don't post in the thread.

Perhaps throw a link to a previous thread, shrug and move on.

You'll live longer.

@Fafnir That is the best way. It's easy and it is legal. I call it "stomping"

Nemesor Dave wrote:
Yes we have which is funny how you contradict the FAQ and make no mention of any other opinion.

The FAQ doesn't have to give every possible way a model can be removed. It simply says the model always gets to roll for EL and come back if sucessful.

Seriously - WRONG. WE've been through this. No other opinion has merit, because it requires ignoring the Sweeping Advance rule. Sweeping advance states you must *specify* that your special rule works. A general statement is about as far from "specific" as you can get.

Read ATSKNF to understand wht specify actually means - for a start mentioning Sweeping Advance is a requirement

The FAQ is not contradicted by Sweeping Advance, the FAQ is simply not sufficient to overcome the SA rule

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Nemesor Dave wrote:
Yes we have which is funny how you contradict the FAQ and make no mention of any other opinion.

The FAQ doesn't have to give every possible way a model can be removed. It simply says the model always gets to roll for EL and come back if sucessful.

Seriously - WRONG. WE've been through this. No other opinion has merit, because it requires ignoring the Sweeping Advance rule. Sweeping advance states you must *specify* that your special rule works. A general statement is about as far from "specific" as you can get.

Read ATSKNF to understand wht specify actually means - for a start mentioning Sweeping Advance is a requirement

The FAQ is not contradicted by Sweeping Advance, the FAQ is simply not sufficient to overcome the SA rule

ATSKNF applies to marines, not to Necrons. ATSKNF keeps the marine in combat so it has to mention SA. Nobody is saying EL should work that way.

EL doesn't save or rescue the model from destruction. The FAQ is simple - EL always allows a roll when the unit is destroyed.

...except against Sweeping Advance, because Sweeping Advance destroys the unit, and no special rule can save them unless said special rule specifies that it does

You still dont understand specific as a term, and as such your argument will always be flawed.

nosferatu1001 wrote:...except against Sweeping Advance, because Sweeping Advance destroys the unit, and no special rule can save them unless said special rule specifies that it does

You still dont understand specific as a term, and as such your argument will always be flawed.

You're confusing EL with WBB. You're still missing the point that EL is not even trying to save the model or unit. It is getting destroyed and combat is over. This is what the FAQ clarifies, when the unit is destroyed, you get to roll for EL always.

No, I'm not. You're also deliberately omitting words again - notice the word rescue there? If I perform CPR on someone clinically dead, have I rescued them? Yes!

If Unit A WAS destroyed by SA, yet you attempt to bring back Unit A (even one member returning brings the unit back) then you have rescued the unit

You have done so witha Special rule

A special rule that does not specify that it works against Sweeping Advance

A special rule that therefore is breaking the Sweeping Advance rule. the FAQ does not change this, because yet again it does not specify that it works against Sweeping Advance

This will not fly at any tournament I can think of, of note, within the UK. You can try to get this through by badgering people locally, and by omitting crucial words and changing the FAQ wording to someting you prefer, but it wont work on here.

You are quite simply 100% incorrect, and will remain so forever - unless GW change the rules again, of course.

nosferatu1001 wrote:No, I'm not. You're also deliberately omitting words again - notice the word rescue there? If I perform CPR on someone clinically dead, have I rescued them? Yes!

If Unit A WAS destroyed by SA, yet you attempt to bring back Unit A (even one member returning brings the unit back) then you have rescued the unit

You have done so witha Special rule

A special rule that does not specify that it works against Sweeping Advance

A special rule that therefore is breaking the Sweeping Advance rule. the FAQ does not change this, because yet again it does not specify that it works against Sweeping Advance

This will not fly at any tournament I can think of, of note, within the UK. You can try to get this through by badgering people locally, and by omitting crucial words and changing the FAQ wording to someting you prefer, but it wont work on here.

You are quite simply 100% incorrect, and will remain so forever - unless GW change the rules again, of course.

EL does not say it "rescues" a model, and EL also does not save or prevent destruction in any way. SA rule does not apply to this situation.

Simple, according to the FAQ if the model is destroyed in any way, roll for EL.

Simple, read and follow the Sweeping Advance rule, realise that pretty basic comprehension of English as a working language defines EL as a rescuing act, and stop being obtuse and keep the model dead.

Seriously, you have no functional argument, will continue to have no functional argument, and are simply wrong. Deal with it

Do we really need another thread on EL and SA? We've already had 1 thread that almost made to 30 pages before being locked, we don't need to open that can of worms again.