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nosferatu1001 wrote:Simple, read and follow the Sweeping Advance rule, realise that pretty basic comprehension of English as a working language defines EL as a rescuing act, and stop being obtuse and keep the model dead.

Seriously, you have no functional argument, will continue to have no functional argument, and are simply wrong. Deal with it

As Happy stated above, I don't think 30 pages of text is "no functional argument" and name calling doesn't prove any point you were trying to make.

The arguments were refuted n the 30 pages of text, over and over and over. Making them non-functional.

No wish for a further 30 pages - so as you cannot find any specific rule overriding SA, as required by SA, SA still works.

The End

nosferatu1001 wrote:The arguments were refuted n the 30 pages of text, over and over and over. Making them non-functional.

No wish for a further 30 pages - so as you cannot find any specific rule overriding SA, as required by SA, SA still works.

The End

So, to make it clear you play it like this:

1. The unit is destroyed by SA.
2. Put down a counter for models with EL
3. At the end of the phase roll for EL.
4. If sucessfull, remove model from play. If failed, remove model from play.

Using your interpretation of RAW, this is how the game is played. Following the RAW exactly as you claim says you still place a counter and if the roll is successful SA kills the model.
You don't seem to have any problem with this ridiculous play sequence.

On your course to following RAW, somewhere it is obvious you have made a wrong turn.

MOD EDIT - Do not make posts that are only images and do not post images with expletives in them - thanks!

How about we return to the OP? You know, force Weapons vs. Necrons?

To OP: as I said before, ID from Force Weapons will not guarantee a Necron stays down. They'll get their RP or EL roll.

Force weapons inflict ID against Necrons. But when the Necron is killed, they still get to place a RP/EL counter, and they still get to roll to come back later.

Seriously, EL is a special rule. SA states in it's entry in the BRB that no special rule can counter SA unless specifically stated in the rules entry. It is that simple. You do not need to twist words, sometimes it's better to just admit defeat and move on. No matter how you try to word things, you can not change the rules. Let it die.

As far as the actual topic, they would get EL rolls for force weapons and everything else aside from what everyone else has mentioned.

ND - nope, you dont roll for EL, because you would be attempting to Rescue the unit, something which is explicitly disallowed. So you just rmeove the counter.

Its not taking a wrong turn, its following the plain as day rules which you have ignored, twisted and plain made up ni an attempt to circumvent them

Mother of god please stop...my eyes still hurt from reading all 30 pages of the last thread.

nosferatu1001 wrote:ND - nope, you dont roll for EL, because you would be attempting to Rescue the unit, something which is explicitly disallowed. So you just rmeove the counter.

Its not taking a wrong turn, its following the plain as day rules which you have ignored, twisted and plain made up ni an attempt to circumvent them

Sweeping advance doesn't deny the roll for the EL counter either. So you place a counter, then at the end of the phase, roll, then pick it up. That makes no sense.

Can you perform a sweeping advance at the end of phase?

If not, what is killing the model that successfully rolled to come back at the end of the phase?

Sweeping Advance, which tells you you cannot rescue the unit. It's really very, very simple, shocked you cant see it.

Do you deny that bringing back a destoryed unit is rescuing it? if you say "yes' you are either being dishonest or have a different comprehension of English to the majority

Love that we're back to Timing again, forgetting that WBB didnt work and that happened waaaaaaaay after EL? Or did WBB work in your universe of NDhammer40k?

nosferatu1001 wrote:Sweeping Advance, which tells you you cannot rescue the unit. It's really very, very simple, shocked you cant see it.

Do you deny that bringing back a destoryed unit is rescuing it? if you say "yes' you are either being dishonest or have a different comprehension of English to the majority

Love that we're back to Timing again, forgetting that WBB didnt work and that happened waaaaaaaay after EL? Or did WBB work in your universe of NDhammer40k?

You can't answer my questions because you know they prove my point. WBB worked differently though you bring it up again. On the table if you move your models and play it out the timing becomes clear.

We all agree - you place a counter.

We agree, at the end of the phase, after combat is over roll for EL.

At this point in time you say it can't come back because SA. Now, who is doing Sweeping Advance at the end of the phase and killing the model?

nosferatu1001 wrote:The arguments were refuted n the 30 pages of text, over and over and over. Making them non-functional.

Is thats your definition of non-functional? That makes no sense, could I not say that 30 pages of text refuted your points, making your argument non-functional. This is whats called a rules dispute, and usually a rules dispute can go either way. When something like this comes up I go with local opinion and TO decisions till it gets a faq.

SA happened earlier. It destroyed the unit. Unless otherwise specified, the unit cannot be rescued.

What is giving you permission to rescue the unit from SA?

Nemesor Dave wrote:You can't answer my questions because you know they prove my point. WBB worked differently though you bring it up again. On the table if you move your models and play it out the timing becomes clear.

Lol. No, they really, really dont prove your point. Simply nothing you have written is any form of proof, as it ignore the words SPECIFIC and RESCUE int he Sweeping Advance rules, and pretends they dont exist.

Your argument has been refuted. And refuted. And refuted. As in, every time one argument gets refuted up pops the same argument from 10 pages ago that was already refuted - so we refute it again. Then you bring up another bogus argument.

And round, and round, and round again.

WBB worked, in terms of the TIMING ARGUMENT you are making, exactly the same. It had the same trigger, and you rolled even later than EL - yet you seem to think it is so different it cant be discussed. Wrong. It is simply another nail in your arguments coffin.

Nemesor Dave wrote:We all agree - you place a counter.

We agree, at the end of the phase, after combat is over roll for EL.

No, you cannot roll for EL - because you are attempting to use a special rule to rescue the unit. Which is specifically disallowed by Sweeping Advance. Unless, of course, you can find some specific wording that allows you to rescue the unit? What, you cant? Shock.

Nemesor Dave wrote:At this point in time you say it can't come back because SA. Now, who is doing Sweeping Advance at the end of the phase and killing the model?

Whos trying to rescue the unit when this is explicitly stated as not being possible, unless the special rule specifically allows it? EL doesnt specifically allow it, therefore attempting to bring the unit back is cheating.

Stop it. Stop it now. Sweeping advance and its effects on Everliving have absolutely NOTHING to do with OP's question. The question the OP had has been answered. we don't need to go off on a 28 page "argument" of "Yes!" "No!" "Yes!" "No!"...

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Nemesor Dave wrote:We all agree - you place a counter.

We agree, at the end of the phase, after combat is over roll for EL.

No, you cannot roll for EL - because you are attempting to use a special rule to rescue the unit. Which is specifically disallowed by Sweeping Advance. Unless, of course, you can find some specific wording that allows you to rescue the unit? What, you cant? Shock.

The counter allows the roll. Sweeping advance doesn't deny the roll.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Nemesor Dave wrote:At this point in time you say it can't come back because SA. Now, who is doing Sweeping Advance at the end of the phase and killing the model?

Whos trying to rescue the unit when this is explicitly stated as not being possible, unless the special rule specifically allows it? EL doesnt specifically allow it, therefore attempting to bring the unit back is cheating.

You ignore the fact that sweeping advance is a one time action performed at a specific time during combat. When combat is over Sweeping Advance is OVER. When the counter allows a roll, sweeping advance has already ended. That is the difference between EL and WBB.

The FAQ simply says EL works always works. If that's not what the FAQ meant, it should say "you get to roll except the times you don't." Because you ignore parts of the SA rules like "at this stage" means you are completely wrong.

Nemesor Dave wrote:The FAQ simply says EL works always works.

No, it doesn't.

DakkaDakka Rule Number Two is Stay On Topic. This thread is not about Sweeping Advance. Please discuss that elsewhere, if at all.

Thanks!

FInal word, as we've gone so far off topic

So don't continue off-topic. Thanks ~Manchu

Let me ask something, don't EL tokens get removed if the unit is falling back? I know the RP tokens do, but I thought it was the same for EL.

Kevin949 wrote:Let me ask something, don't EL tokens get removed if the unit is falling back? I know the RP tokens do, but I thought it was the same for EL.

EL tokens aren't attributed to the unit. They're placed where the model 'died'. The RP rules say to remove all of the 'unit's' tokens, but the EL token isn't a part of that pool.

There are arguments both for and against that. Due to the wording of RP (all tokens are removed (might be any token, not sure don't have codex)), the 2 sides are all (any) token means exactly that all/any token regardless of source. The other group claims that all/any token just means RP tokens.

As above. I take context to mean "any [RP] tokens" are removed, as otherwise it could be any and all token that you have in play.....

Happyjew wrote:There are arguments both for and against that. Due to the wording of RP (all tokens are removed (might be any token, not sure don't have codex)), the 2 sides are all (any) token means exactly that all/any token regardless of source. The other group claims that all/any token just means RP tokens.

If it's not stated as such under the EL rule then it is only for RP and not for EL, since the rules for both are very clear on what token to put down and when, and what affects each rule.

Off-topic. Last warning. ~Manchu

Eh, but I digress, the original answer to the OP has indeed been answered and this is far off topic. Off to the thread pertaining to this...